Baggy

Abra, I think it’s the steam inside the loaf that causes the shine. In my experience there is a close relationship between shiny holes in the crumb and really good oven spring. Usually I get this when a loaf has small amounts of yeast (or a sourdough or other long fermented starter), is proofed less than the maximum and the dough is relatively weak. I find it more often with sourdoughs and other starters, especially with very wet doughs when the steam from the bottom of the loaf blows big cavities. Interestingly, the holes in the crumb when it’s shiny seem to be from the base and close to the crust. I guess this is where the steam created during baking causes the greatest pressure. Does anyone else get shiny walls to the holes in the crumb sometimes but not every time?

That’s great – let us know if the sourdough you get keeps its history or becomes local. Personally, I think sourdoughs are like pets and get to be like their owner.

Being a bit casual about the attention I give to pans (and hating to do the washing up), I steer clear of stainless steel (Inox) because food tends to catch and burn so easily (and eggs are absolutely impossible). I understand that stainless steel can be tempered in the same way as cast iron (heat with until smoking oil, allow to cool & repeat several times – never use soap etc). For the same reason I avoid coppered pans except where heat distribution is critical (like sugar work or melting butter/gels etc). Instead I go for commercial grade non-stick aluminium.

The weekend before last, as a minor celebration of Chef Campbell’s promotion to the 2-star elite, I had a small dinner party based exclusively on some the of ‘Formulas for Flavour’ book. The menu was:- Roast scallop with artichoke barigoule Turbot, braised ox tail, parsley & lemon oil Citrus soufflé, hot chocolate ice cream First thing to say was – the recipes look far less impressive than the taste they deliver. The flavours build on each other to create an impressive and substantial result. Initially the quantities seemed over generous, but they worked out fine. The recipes are generally detailed but, despite all the notes, and ‘do this now’ instructions, they are a bit disorganised and need much more careful planning if you are working on your own. I didn’t have any of the basic, starting materials and, from start to finish, it took 11 hours preparation spread across 2 days. The second thing to be aware of is the cost of ingredients. I don’t have access to a) kitchen wholesalers or b) US food prices which can be significantly below London costs. Total ingredient cost for the menu was around US$175 for four persons. With the very large number of top-quality ingredients, the costs add up quickly. Unlike Essence which uses a lot of obscure herbs, most of the ingredients are easily found (at least in London). I would absolutely recommend this book, but beware the troublesome journey to arrive at 2-star nirvana. The book is not expensive compared with some other personality chefs, but the binding is not of the best quality. PS There are 10 starters, 10 mains and 10 desserts, plus a range of stocks and sauces (6 bread types).

I have looked both in Paris and NYC – depends what you’re looking for as to which is less expensive. Copper pans always seem to be on sale, but prices are similar both sides of the Atlantic. Some specialist baking kit, like proving baskets, is about half the cost in Paris. I’m really not sure which retailer I used to visit in NYC, as I don’t remember their name. I used to know their location, but I think they moved. The stock carried by Bridge Kitchenware looks very familiar – maybe this is the one – http://www.bridgekitchenware.com/ But don’t you find it pretty testing that Dehillerin doesn’t have a more complete catalogue online? If you have time when you’re visiting Paris, also try (and here’s my list – a couple of years old): (1) A. Simon 48 & 52, rue Montmartre 75002 Paris Tel: +33-1-42-33-71-65 Fax: +33-1-42-33-68-25 www.simon-a.com Metro: Châtelet Clean & bright; reasonable selection, not much stock; small selection of lined bannetons (2) La Bovida 36, rue Montmartre 75001 Paris Tel: +33-1-42-36-09-99 Metro: Châtelet Clean; easy layout; not much stock; pastis glasses; saltpetre (potassium nitrate); part of chain (3) MORA 13, rue Montmartre 75001 Paris Tel: +33-1-45-08-19-24 Fax: +33-1-45-08-49-05 Metro: Châtelet Crowded, older style; limited stock; small selection of willow bannetons (4) Dehillerin 18-20 rue Coquillière 75001 Paris Tel: +33-1-42-36-53-13 www.e-dehillerin.fr Metro: Châtelet – les Halles Crowded, dusty; basement; stock in depth; old fashioned Happy shopping!

These are all great pointers. I used to have major problems and it took ages to get the right weight of toppings and the right thickness of crust. Getting the right crunchiness of the crust also took some experimenting. I bake pizza at around the same temperature as you 450-500F for 7 minutes with toppings less cheese. I then add the cheese so it’s not overcooked and dry. Total cooking time is usually around 11 minutes to get the cheese melted but not burned. If you are cooking in an electric oven, you might check if the oven has a top heating element. With these higher temperatures, this element is switched on and acts like a toaster. In my electric oven I protect the pizza top by putting another shelf (covered with a cookie sheet) between the pizza and the roof of the oven. Works a treat.

You seem to already have the experience of getting a starter to work – maybe the answer is how long have you got? Sometimes natural starters can get going right away and then it’s only 1-2 weeks before you can start baking. I guess it doesn’t help if you want to make bread for this weekend. If you buy a live starter there is some debate about whether it starts of OK, but then adapts to your flour, temperature and feeding regime. Certainly Clayton in his Book of Breads, claims that what was a classic SF sourdough starter ended up as a mid-West (or wherever) starter in a very short time. From my experience, taking a starter fed with organic flour available in the UK for a vacation over in Paris, by the time it had fed on French T55 a few times the behaviour was quite different, not only in time to maturity but also in the way the dough behaved. On returning to ‘home cooking’ on UK organic flour, it took a few days to settle down again and become predictable. Of course, you could always buy deactivated sourdough powder – all the flavour without the hassle. On a more caring note, I agree with you that growing your own sourdough is a big time commitment. I cared for my last starter for almost two years, having taken it with me on many journeys to many different countries. It passed away a few months ago with a bad case of flu or some other disease. I haven’t had the emotional courage to start another.

Having given some thought to this thread, and being of scientific mind (not always helpful), I much appreciated your comment, helenjp, about a biological fact that could assist in cutting down the TQ (Tear Quotient) – cells aligned vertically so cutting in a root-stem direction reduces damage and TQ. My additional thought would be one of technique. I am sure that the Zen of Onion Cutting is equally important, and I have been trying my rhythmical breathing. I can report that it works brilliantly. The technique is very simple: Breathe in deeply whilst lifting the knife into the cutting position. As the slice is made, breathe out slowly and steadily. Repeat for every slice. I think the reason this works so well is that, apart from the calming breathing patterns, you can direct your breath to blow the onion fumes away. Would anyone else care to try this?

Chefsimon – sorry to disappoint but I’m only a keen home cook. I have been trying out some of the el Bulli recipes when friends come round – with the bite sized dishes and no commis I have to prep like mad. I tend to fill the Thermomix at the last stages of prep, maybe an hour before I want to make the sauce, and it takes a lot of anxiety out of the last minute things. If you get the opportunity to look at The Cooks Book, I can say that the gin fizz (basically a sour made of gin/lemon granita and topped with a hot gin/lemon/egg white foam) is spectacularly good. I have been using it as one of the appetisers (usually do 2 amuse, 2 appetisers, 2 entrees, 2 desserts as a standard). But hot foamed mayonnaise with asparagus and asparagus sorbet is another absolute favourite for taste and surprise (another el Bulli dish).

If you want a starter guide to some of the things to do with your whipper, you might take a look at The Cooks Book edited by Jill Norman. The starring attraction is a chapter by Ferran Adria on foams – it must be the least expensive access to some elBulli favourites! I often use the whipper in combination with a Thermomix. Works really well as I can put, say, the ingredients for a hot mayonnaise foam in the Thermomix. When I’m ready to serve, I blitz at 70C for 2 minutes, filter the sauce into the whipper, charge shake and spray. All this takes less than 5 minutes and I don’t have to bother about making a bain marie to keep the contents of the whipper warm.

At the more day-to-day end of the scale it’s worth taking a look at Le Petit Larousse de la Cuisine. It has all the standard recipes, is very approachable and absolutely reliable. I believe it is only available in French.

Catriona - not sure if Wapping and Canary Wharf overlap/are the same. I've eaten a few times in Canary Wharf, but frankly whatever the quality of the restaurant it's difficult to get a neutral atmosphere during the week (too many bankers) or at the weekend, lots of baby buggies. Apart from neighbourhood restaurants (eg coffee shops and takeaways), I tend to look to the West End for a better all-round eating experience. On the other hand, if you can face a trek into the wilderness of Hoxton, you can try Bacchus for an interesting brush with modernist (sous vide) cooking - and the chef's a nice guy. Happy eating!

Franci, I’m in agreement. My experience is based largely on the differences in flour, which I make into bread myself. If buying bread then there are additional horrors that really detract from the taste. These include preservatives to kill off fungal growth so that bread will keep for two weeks sealed in a plastic bag. From a taste viewpoint, the main ingredient that seems to pervade much of the mass produced bread (and most food) in the US is corn syrup and its derivatives. Not only does it add a faintly sweet flavour, but it also has an unmistakeable aroma that masks the other ingredients. I believe that there are moves to reduce/remove corn syrup on grounds of both taste and health (some experts believe that the types of sugars in corn syrup may stimulate obesity). But I would also add that bread in the UK typically does not achieve a good standard. Having bought a breadmaker a few years ago and tasted the difference immediately, I have not bought another standard loaf from the supermarket. Now having made my own French breads from French flour, I would not buy a French loaf either (artisan or not). I do buy ciabatta but only because I haven’t had the time to work out a reliable recipe (and no more room in the freezer for storage).

You hit it on the nose Paul. It’s clear for me that most of my own cooking (particularly on workdays) is defined by what dishes I know from habit and what’s left in the fridge. But I thought it was great that you also acknowledged that there is a source for those dishes. So I suppose my question was rather too general. If I were to poll home cooks in the UK, my guess is that a number of cook books would be seen as foundation books – books you might give to your kids when they leave to set up home. More recent authors would probably include:- Jamie Oliver Nigel Slater Nigella Lawson (but mainly for baking) Delia Smith etc With Mrs Beeton and others representing the old school. In Italy, would Silver Spoon be in the same category? If I rephrase my question more specifically to ask about foundation ‘101’ books that capture US home cooking. I have seen books like Betty Crocker, but was trying to get a better feeling for current favourites.

That's true, but the problem with frozen bread is the water trapped in the middle of the loaf. Baking frozen bread works best in a fan oven rather than a conventional oven as it drives the moisture out, but still the water content tends to be higher making the loaf slightly more dense (and the less crisp crust). I think this might be the reasoning behind reducing the water in bread to be frozen. For normal bread baking I have used the water spray to give a good crispy crust, but usually just make steam. With a spray, the crust can go glossy which (in French circles, at least) is considered a technical fault!

Having just joined eGullet I was interested to hear how your ciabatta making is progressing. I promised myself to start working on ciabatta for a couple of years, but never got round to it. I saw you had some helpful comments. Looking at the end result, your bread looks good already. If I can add a few thoughts. I agree with jackal10 that salt levels are typically kept around 2% of flour, but US formulae tend to adjust salt upwards with higher levels of water. Although this is not the practice in Europe, it does make sense, as the gluten will be stronger with more salt. But higher salt also reduces the activity of the yeast, so sourdough often has lower levels of salt to make up for the weaker rising-power. It is definitely worth playing around with the salt level as it changes the relative activity of yeast and the sourdough bacteria. This leads to a more fruity (higher salt level) or more sour taste (less salt); depending on which type of bacteria have the upper hand. Changing the fermentation temperature has the same effect, with dough prepared at higher temperatures (even up to 40C) having a fruitier taste as the lactic acid bacteria are preferred over the sour acetic acid bacteria (which can be favoured at temperatures as low as 10C). The yeast will be considerably more active at higher temperatures, giving greater volume (but a milder taste) The comments made about hydration are also interesting as hydration levels are significantly different between countries. In the US, ciabatta dough tends to have a very high hydration, sometimes even up to 85% of flour. Italian formulae for ciabatta tend to be around the 55 – 60% hydration and still end up with the floppy, soft dough. If you couple this with the fact that there is no accepted standard formula for ciabatta in Italy, with every region having its own version, it is probably best to think of ciabatta as a technique for managing doughs that won’t keep their shape, rather than a particular bread formula. This would go some way to explaining why high hydration is used with hard wheat flours in order to end up with a floppy, plastic rather than elastic dough. The only other comment I might suggest is that ciabatta dough is usually given a final proof in a relatively wide pan and divided shortly before baking, not earlier. This gives less chance for the dough to spread thinly and reduces escape of gas which would reduce volume. This gets the best out of weak flour that has poor gas retention and little gluten. Hope you have continued success!

To return to the original question, in my view it is mostly down to the choice of flour and the technique. Prepared on a similar basis, French flour tends to be creamy with a full taste; hard wheat flours tend to be whiter, and slightly harsh, with an almost metallic taste. Techniques used with hard wheat flours tend to involve slow fermentation methods which help to neutralise the metallic taste. Additionally, when starters are used (particularly long, slow starters such as sourdough) then flavour of the flour is less important and bread will have a more translucent sheen, larger, irregular holes and generally be chewy. Sourdoughs as used in the US will produce a bread with a distinctive taste (often sour, or mildly so); French sourdough (levain) is considered to be technically at fault if it has a sour taste, even though the technique and appearance of the bread is basically the same. Larger French breads shaped as a boule, such as the Poilâne loaf are almost always prepared with a starter and many are known for their long-keeping qualities (same as for sourdoughs). [nb this comment does not apply to rye-breads, where a sour is technically necessary to produce a loaf of good volume; but then French rye breads rarely have more than 65% rye flour] On the other hand there is also the technical side to the flour. French flours are generally weak compared with hard wheat flours and generally used with ascorbic acid to strengthen the dough, particularly with poorer quality wheat. This gives breads better eye-appeal with greater volume and marginally longer storage times. Unfortunately, the addition of ascorbic acid reduces the natural wheat flavour (why, I don’t know). This brings me to the more contentious part. In France, the spread of franchises and branded baguettes means more bakers are using ‘franchised’ flour e.g. Banette and Rétrodor. Unfortunately, the flour used seems to have less taste than flour from other national mills with an established reputation (e.g. Viron flour). Whilst information on the sources and types of wheat is not easily available, one might suspect that some flours have higher levels of ascorbic acid to make it easier for bakers. If you accept the relentless advances of franchised bakery within France (Banette claims over 800 branded bakeries), it is very possible to travel widely and not actually taste an authentic, regionally sourced baguette. But it also means that coming across an authentic tasting baguette in the US has to start with the baker having access to high quality European flour. Do you think this might help go some way to explaining the problem?

I saw some great suggestions and obviously you have tried and had a success. If you are planning on freezing before the final rise (proof), you will need to add extra yeast as the freezing process definitely reduces its activity. Also, try reducing the water slightly. These pieces are usually unfrozen and allowed to proof before baking in the usual way (although proofing will take several hours instead of a more normal 60 minutes or so). Unfortunately, this dough mix might produce a difficult to control bake if you are going to fully bake some pieces right away. If you are going to use a standard unmodified recipe, then it is best to bake those going in the freezer for half the normal time. As suggested by amapola, after cooling wrap them individually and as air-tight as possible. If you want to go to the extreme than you should vacuum pack them (it really helps prevent freezer burn and they store for a whole lot longer). When you are ready to use them, unwrap and put the pieces directly in an oven without unfreezing and bake for the usual, unmodified time but at a lower temperature. For example, if you have frozen some croissants which before freezing would have been baked for 20 minutes at 220C, then bake for 10 minutes before freezing. After freezing bake for 20 minutes at 160C. Modifying the baking time before freezing is only necessary if you are planning to store the breads for more than a few days. Storage in the freezer for longer than a few days and the crust has a tendency to become separated from the loaf. The crust separating is not so much of a problem for items without a real crust, such as croissants and bagels, but freezing works best with breads normally baked at lower temperatures like wholemeal (whole wheat) rolls, and breads containing fats. Crusty breads will taste great but, after freezing, they just won’t be crusty as usual. Hope this adds to the good advice you already received.

I have various categories for my books. Workhorse: these are not the best presented or most exciting book, but have a good range and recipes are reliable; always the first place to look up a recipe when I’m in a hurry, e.g. Petit Larousse de la Cuisine Reference: not books that you would sit down and go through from cover to cover, but definitely a book to look at when researching a subject; generally these books have a broad range and are likely to contain answers on ingredients, techniques or specific recipes, e.g. Larousse Gastronomique, Harold Magee Inspirational: these are books that draw you in and make you plan a meal around it; sometimes I find it's not be the recipe itself that I want to try, but it sparks an idea about something I haven’t tried in a while or suggests a different presentation; a good design can lift good content into this category, e.g. elBulli Gap fillers: these are books that get used for only one (or just a few) recipes, e.g. the recipe for steak & oyster pudding by Nigella ‘How to be a Domestic Goddess’; some of these books fill in gaps because they take a different slant, such as a style of cooking and present recipes in a way that helps to understand the overall approach, e.g. weekday French-style Depardieu ‘My Cookbook’. These are good to have on the shelf, but I don’t use them all that often Readable books: I use these most often used as background books for their approach rather than their recipes Boring: a category reserved for books that are poorly written, badly organised or just present the same material in an uninteresting way; like yet another book on pasta! I can make a list if anyone is really interested. I would be interested to hear which books are used as the best for typical home cooking.

Can I vote with Porthos? Seems to me only sensible to slice the onion vertically stem to root - I don't even bother peeling the half I don't want to use right away. Then it's really easy to peel (from the stem) the half to use and start slicing or dicing from the stem end. The root keeps the layers in place which is helpful when in a hurry. Of course, you don't get onion rings!