tan319

Sorry if I offended anybody. Maybe one shouldn't post if not having the best of day's. Like me yesterday, Anyway, no excuse's. What wasn't gelling for me... It just seemed very random, a lot of the ideas being floated, if random is the right word. A bit thrown out there. In the earlier part of the thread, things just seemed, unappetizing. I'm down for the whole savoury/sweet thing. I see and read a lot of material, and you know me, my interest is alway's piqued (?), especially if the idea rings true and it seems that the tastes are there. I asked myself, more then a few times while looking this thread over, if I was missing something. Why wasn't I getting excited about the ideas being floated around, why wasn't I getting jazzed about them. And I guess it seemed to me like a mish mash that wasn't getting real focused or something. And it wasn't until yesterday when I read the post by you that it really started coming together for me. Like I said, I certianly didn't mean to offend F.G, whose input on just about anything I always dig, or anyone else for that matter. Carry on, my sons (and sister's) tan You have some cajone's anyways, Michael I RARELY ask ANYONE but my most trusted people any input on stuff that I'm doing! You've got a lot of love, 'bro!

Re: F.G. and twodogs latest postings. I don't want to be a jackass, but, I think Michael has a pretty firm grip on things. The yuzu ginger gelee/trout roe idea seems really solid to me. In fact, Michaels blueprint is the 1st time this whole thing started to gell for me. Hence, my post. I could be missing the point, but a steak for dessert would maybe be more up 'the Surrealist Gourmet's alley then these guy's. Or, you could just do a twice cooked beef dish, Chinese style. There could be a real danger of losing the plot here and giving someone like 'ole Chef Writer Spencer's argument's and diatribe's some creedence if one isn't careful. I opt to give the guy who has some serious background in these type's of dinners the faith and support ( not saying that he doesn't have it from you guy's). Let's see what else happen's. BTW: too bad you don't have sea urchin on the menu. That would make a helluva injection into a caramel ball, maybe even chocolate. Also, IS seasonality (?) as big of a deal if the product is being used as a component? If we want to use , say, apricot in a dessert because it will make up a great dish, should we not use a puree, for instance, just because it's not in season? I say, use whatever you want if it's going to be great.

See, therein lies the problem. Unless a chef has a background or heavy interest in pastry, dessert cuisine, whatever you want to call it, isn't it just 'pissin in the wind? I'm digging back some years, but someone like Stephan Pyles made great dessert's ( I ate at Star Canyon 4 times in 2 weeks when I was in Dallas in 95) because he had the background. he worked at Gaston Lenotre's place for at least a year, maybe more. Ditto someone like Ming Tsai, who worked or staged at Fauchoun for a year or so. Ming has a pastry chef. I don't know, don't mean to seem cranky but it is kind of a specialized field, unless you're making pie's and brownies, cookie's and cobbler's... Maybe the Blue Hill guy's were amazing. I would like to add to the list of dessert only restaurant's 'Sugar, a dessert bar', in Chicago. A former Trotter pastry chef was (is?) manning the stove's there.

Ditto on the wine. I used to go out with someone a long time ago whose favorite drink it was Maybe a wine reduction would be cool?

Thuries mag link http://www.thuries.fr/magazine/anciensnume...ffdcb144a926465 P.S. maybe Loufood can answer this question. The whole year volume lists for 91.50C? Is this in Euro's? The French got rid of the franc, correct? Thanks for the info in advance. Ted

Of course it figures that I have Sept 2000 but not July/August 2000 Food Arts issues,crap! Perhaps I'll call them about back issues... Thank you very much, Steve, for the info and recipe, really cool. Now, could you give us info on where to get the Thuries subscriptions? I'm going to do an online search and see what I can find, if I get something, I'll post it. BTW, while I was looking for the Food Arts issue, I came across your caramel article for them and the awesome caramel sushi dessert you and Jose developed. I remember when that came out and how blown away I was! Fresh-A : thanks for posting the link, I enjoyed it Ted Niceley

Hi, Sinclair. Here's a link to Heston Blumenthal's molten cake recipe. http://www.ukgourmet.com/chocfondant.html Heston is the chef/owner of a restaurant in the UK called 'the Fat Duck' which is doing the new type of stuff that places like El Bulli, etc. are doing. Experimenting with molecular gastronomics, brain/palate teasing, etc. Philippe Conticini is another pastry chef who heads up Petrossian restaurant and Peltier Patisserie in Paris and opened the (now closed) Petrossian pastry boutique in NYC. He is another forward thinking PC whom I'm trying to research more on also. He doe's a lot of mingling savoury and sweet, plating concept's and liquid center type stuff centers. PA&D did a cover story on him a few years back, it had a lot of recipe's, and I'm bummed my copy went missing.! If anyone has that issue and would copy it for me, I would gladly pay shipping whatever. PM me Thanks, Ted PS: hope that helps, Sinclair

Thank you ,Steve. That's exactly what I'm thinking of, and the Conticini style cake. I want to fool around with the Blumenthal approach, which I think is pretty close to what you're talking about. Thanks again, everyone, I'll let you know how it goes.

introspective. I'm eagerly looking toward the Blumenthals, Marcons, Veyrats, Adrias, Liebrandts, for insight and inspiration... Michael, did you mean Regis, Fabrice, or Betty Marcon? I'm a bit out of the loop on this one and want to look them up. Thanks, and good luck on your adventure. Sorry I haven't posted on this subject, it's been perplexing to me for some reason, but I'm enjoying reading everyone else! ted

Thanks for the post. I know I could do the mix ahead and all that. I think Steve Klc once wrote about a choc cake he does that he keeps a buch of on hand to finish off, very quickly, for service. Steve, if you read this , maybe you could advise. And thanks again, turtle

Just wondering, and would appreciate any tips, advice,greatly. I'm trying to make it so that there's the least possible time before plate up, if i decide to go with it. If I did, i need to finish off in around 2 minutes, in a micro. Possible? Thanks, in advance!

You wouldn't enjoy it for long, when no one was buying them.

I know. I'm sorry. Like herbacidal, I very much admire the creativity of pastry chefs. I have seen some stunning objects. But they don't seem to me to be food. They had might as well be made of glass and plastic. Where are you (or rather, aren't you) eating dessert??? Glass and plastic??? I can't imagine unless you are going to some ultra high end places you're seeing a lot of sugar work and heavy duty decor. A little dessert never hurt's. You sound like my wifes mother.

I usually pour the amount I want to have on hand and put it into a mid size pan, seal it w/ foil and set into another pan filled with water, cover that and bake at 400 'till it's Dulce. I've always been paranoid about the cans.

Thanks, Paul, I order a fair amount of stuff from CHIPSbooks and I also saw it advertised on the JBPrince site. I don't think I'll be able to get it till November anyways. Can't wait!

They didn't. But only because the Internet didn't exist then. (Now someone's going to post & ask tan319 to defend his comparision of Adria to Escoffier. This is gonna be fun! Bring it on, Mutha's!

Does anyone know if people gave Escoffier this much crap about aspic?

Thank you for posting, dallardice Seems like you had a most amazing meal.

I just saw on the JB prince site that the English edition will be available in October. Can anyone verify this? Much appreciated!

Here's one vote for "interested." you have my vote. Please post it!

I thought this article was hilarious! And sums up the guy pretty well, ironically or not. The NYtimes mag article , I've read this thing over and over, much like I've watched the Trio segment from 'Into the Fire' again and again. Catching these kind of creators in action, visually or reading about them is a revelation. The 4 almonds segment cracks me up. The logging, dating the recipes, it all makes sense to me. Had to add my 2 cents. Thanks!

Sinclair, Nice reply and Steves post packs it home even more. I KNOW, no matter how screwed up everything is right now with the economy, etc., etc., it's not THAT dire! it's been a weord summer, falls coming , let's get ready for it. More parties means more work, new stuff to work with. I really feel it's gonna be ok.

LOL!!! I don't know about that. Before I get started, let me say that when I came in, the food was already better, due to a friend of mine who had taken over the chef reins and wacked things into shape. The dessert menu was in trouble and I fixed that. My sales here aren't horrible, I'm not throwing anything away. I just got spoiled when I was doing the menu at another place here and was enjoying sales in the 45-55% range. And I know we can do it here. The owner is aware of the scene, he wants the people who do the food for his restaurant, whom he pays to perform that function for him, to do that. And I don't disagree with that philosophy. But on to other things. Sinclair, your Payard influenced dessert sounds like a winner. It should be. Payard is one of the great ones. Sure, he's rooted in the classics, but what's wrong with that? Although a lot of us here are excited about all the new stuff that's about, I don't think Steve or Michael think classics blow, they are a foundation. And Hermes get's a lot of lip service here too, dont you think? Bau's stuff is pretty classic too, his cakes are at least, he's into the science of stuff but nothing wrong with that. Laying low on the descriptions is not a bad thing. Onto other things again Steve Klc, as usual, hit's so many nails on the head. The real name thing is a good suggestion. Why am I scared of that? I think Steves "self-employed or entrepreneurial route " suggestions are the thing to think about if we're not happy in our present positions. I've been weighing these things in my mind most heavily. #1- Trying to get investors to back a dessert based restaurant, offering a VERY small savoury menu but really make it about dessert. Tasting menu would be nice, maybe breads for sale in front, as well as ice creams, etc. But really make it more about dessert cuisine. One catch here. I would want an investor(s) to come with an alcohol license. Would have to have a full bar. #2- Maybe set up a business to provide desserts for restaurants, high end. Not as appealing but. #3- Try to get the press thing going, investigate guest teaching a class in restaurant desserts and related items. There are 2 things I would love to do, one would be to stage somewhere, and the other would be to do the 6 month FPS course, like Nightscotsman is doing. I looked into a Balaguer stage, looks like it's a 6 month commitment and some bucks, which I'm sure would be well worth it. But would have to leave the family for 6 months, that's like a REALLY long record. The other is just a pretty heavy hit, financially. Again, I'm sure well worth it. Just not as appealling. We'll see what happens. It's all good. Except when it's bad

Sinclair, Thanks for your observations. I"m in the process of redirecting myself, per monday's conversation with staff. You see, this place is an old restaurant, which had gotten a bad reputation, solely bases on the food, no sanitary issues or stuff like that. Desserts were really tired. So I went in right before valentines day this year and got it into gear. The summer has slightly demoralized the serving staff, I feel. If I was an owner or the chef, I would clean the house a bit. That one server who came in and was such a seller really opened my eyes. There was another one as well who was really good. I wish that someone in the upper echelon would remind the servers that while it's fun, etc., they are sales people. As far as #s go, I like to see them just so I can track what's hot, week to week, as well as have an idea of my sales overall. I don't dislike the servers. I DO think often times they feel they run the place if you let them get too much power. It's easy to sell steaks and salmon, creme brulee, any of us could do that in our sleep. When one is explaining a special to them, it would be nice to see them actually take the time to write it down. But ,yes, I'm going to relax a bit not that I was following them around badgering them. I would talk to the people whom I respect and see if they could inspire the others. One would feel that they would understand that the more they sell the more they'll make. Don't know if I'm ready to bust out the party hat's and balloons to inspire them

BPG, Thanks for your observations, etc. Both of my chefs are into desserts. I've been given pretty much Carte Blanche in both of my places to do whatever I want. I WOULD say that in one of them, the chef is a bit more excited about them then the other, as in he likes to come up with ice creams sometimes, or throws an idea at me to run with. Unfortunately, his restaurant is smaller, in every way, doesn't have the funds to play with as freely. So I can''t do as much cool stuff. I feel guilty if I start asking for glucose and trimoline, you know? Also, his place doesn't have the staff to do more intricate plating, or rather, I would feel pretty awful to come in one morning and find all the 'outros' I made ruined from mishandling. My other chef from the place I spend most of my time is very into what I do, he just is tied up oftentimes in the politics and daily rigors of running a place and I guess he feels that on one hand, I have everything pretty much under control. It's been a pretty underwhelming summer here in New Mexico, everybody from Abq. to Santa Fe in the biz are pretty upset about the #s we've all done (except for the chains, I suppose) and it's just been a rough one here. I just saw my main pastry supplier pack it in and fold into a MAJOR big deal distributor. Where my choice & variety of supplys will shrink. And , as to your chef friend's attitude about dessert, that's awesome! Was this on the east coast? NYC? It's such a different market, as far as staff attitude. As well as most others! By that I mean a chef or GM would not be as reluctant to confront issues with servers, etc. Knowing that dessert sales gone is bull. Like for instance what joiel brought up about overstuffed customers. We have been confronting the "BREAD and BUTTER" issue lately. Why do we spend so much money on something we give away? Why place such an emphasis on that part of the meal? We might start putting out some rolls and just try to get apps out ASAP, so people won't glut out as much. One of the sous wants to do cornbread and flatbread too but I'm trying to get them to consider the possibility that maybe we're overfeeding them, and paying for it in a myriad of ways. Man, watching that TRIO segment on 'Into the Fire', on FTV, has just made me start thinking about the grooviness of tasting menus. More control over the food, knowing what's coming up, too much to go into here. The idea of an amuse hitting the table lightning fast then getting into dinner just is really appealing to me. I made a copy of it that all my other chefs are sharing and it's blowing their minds. Hope it didn't too off topic here. There are a lot of issues hitting our dessert cuisine departments. Atkins and diets in general. The economy... Someone I really respect wrote me something the other day. He said that , and I'm paraphrasing a bit, " Please yourself first. Set simple goals for yourself, so that once you achieve them, you can set higher ones. " I dig that