tan319

Reporting from my experiences lately, the reason they don't pay more attention to desserts is because they're more worried about selling their own food (in the case of the chefs) or simply getting people into the restaurant, keeping costs down and trying to keep stuff nailed down to the floor (owners, managers, with pilferage and worse). It's funny you wrote about this yesterday because I had one of the worst days in a long while yesterday, and it pretty much pertains to what we've been discussing here. My digital scale was stolen between Saturday night and yesterday morning. That certainly brightened my day up. The guy who assists me threw out some dough I was using over the weekend because it didn't seem 'fresh', and then didn't bother leaving me a note about it. As well as a cornucoupia of other crap he didn't do. Dessert sales at lunch haven't been great and yesterday, after 40 -45 covers and 3 desserts sold , I brought it up with the chefs, managers and a couple of servers. Basically said that if they couldn't get the #s up , who knows what would happen. And this subject had been coming up more lately from me. This goes into big discussion about menus, etc., with assorted suggestions from sous chefs about changes, letting me know about how I pissed some waitress off when she caught me in a surly mood (who knows, a month or two ago?), it might've been over the heat in the kitchen that particular day, or it might have concerned that I was in the middle of something after trying to hold off on making product that I can't walk away from, anticipating some sales and not getting them and of course, Murphys law came into play. I plate desserts at lunch while doing production. Much discussion followed about communication (my emphasis) and if anyone is annoyed at me, they should discuss it WITH me , instead of me hearing about it a month later. Why management doesn't care about dessert sales that much is because they know,and I quote here from a managers words yesterday to me, " You can't begin to have a great restaurant, a serious great restaurant, without great desserts". They know it's good stuff, mine do care about quality, but with customers using entertainment cards, trying to watch their money, sometimes putting their credit cards on the table to pay before they even get the check, it's 'hard' on the servers to get the dessert menu to them. To me , it's a lame excuse, especially when there was a server there for maybe a week, worked two or three shifts, and she sold more desserts at lunch in 2 days then I think I ever saw anyone do. But, what do you think? I was basically told yesterday that my job was safe, no matter what. Should I stop caring about how much I sell and just make my desserts, make sure they're great and that's it? Oh, and as far as ice cream, profit lines go, here's something for you. That server who was kicking ass, great sales, came down to me and ordered some vanilla ice cream ( not made by me, I don't have a machine at this place) and I asked her how much she was charging and was told "$1.50" I told her it's 4.00. I'm scooping into an martini glass, berrie's ,etc, why were we giving it away? Because no one really cared . Sometimes the Atkins people want berries in a bowl, I'll put them in a martini glass, make it look nice, server says ' I told them it was $4.00' , I'm like, why aren't we charging $7.00, like all the other desserts, the product costs more, etc. And no one askes the pastry chef how much to charge, it's bullshit. Sinclair, I think you're right about us not being understood and such. We're secluded most of the time, a lot of chefs think we just play around with sugar. "Sweet siders", LOL!!! That's how it's been referred to. Hey, but on the positive side, a lot of the chefs, or at least some of them, know we work in crappy conditions, and try to get them improved, it just takes longer.

Chefg I can understand how hard it is to look at yourself and your food but believe us, it was all great. You've read all this, I won't wear it out for you. BTW, man, those interns look REALLY young. How old are those guys?

I have to clear a few things up here. Firstly, I've meant no malice in what I've written and hope it's not been taken that way by anybody, especially you, Sinclair. I don't work what I would call a "comfy" gig. I don't call 10 bucks an hour particularly 'comfy' bucks. I P-chef at 2 places, one that is horribly run but that has a lot of heart, and another that is pretty well run. At the aforementioned one I often have to wait around till a store opens so I can get eggs because someone forgot to order them. Or go grocery shopping for milk at 5 or 6 am. The other one has all the unlevel tables and crap. Crappy ventilation and cooling. Servers that SUCKKKKK!!!!! For the most part. But I do end up selling a respectable # of plate's though. Enough to keep my job. I have lucked out once or twice when I was unhappy with my working conditions and fell into another gig. But those were usually resumes that were already out there and got picked up by a manager or chef again. I've also quit a gig because of shitty conditions and done something else, like cooking breakfast at a fajita joint then ran off to another low paying gig at a savory place in the afternoon. , just to make ends meet. I have a family to support, you know, I'm not just huffing off because someone pisses me off. When conditions become intolerable or a chef is impossible to deal with, ie; I can't look them in the eye because they're so clueless and I don't have a shred of respect for them, that's when I go. I only suggested getting out of a place because you (Sinclair) have seemed extremely unhappy and stressed and have written about it here. I guess it worried me that you seemed so morose and beat up. But good on you if you can work under crappy conditions sounds (crappier then mine) and clueless chefs and still be able to do it. And BTW, all summer I've felt like I've had a bulls-eye on my back as far as the P chefs being the first to get the boot subject goes. That makes me VERY uncomfortable. It's also one of the reasons I keep my other job.

Fat Guy again makes an excellent point. I have to compare this again to music, if you'll pardon me. Years ago, bands like REM or the Cure couldn't get arrested on the radio, yet were selling out arenas before any major airplay hit. My point is, there were people who told radio station programmers, 'people want to hear acient Lynard Skynrd and Doors music, not any of this new stuff. All of a sudden ,radio gets a song that they feel strong about, it get's played and all those concert goers are listening to the radio. I'm in New mexico (not Santa Fe) and people are eating foams. I don't list it in the menu description ( mainly because the nimbuams at night still ocassionally have a problem w/ the charger) of the dessert it's served with, i like to think of it as a little something extra. I've had home cooks call me there who want to learn how to do this. I realize how lucky I am and I'm not trying to be contrary. I'm just saying people will eat just about anything, as long as it taste's good, no matter where they are. And, do any of us REALLY have to tell the chef everything we're doing, dessert wise? As a special? Can't we just do it and before service or at luchtime, have them taste it and tell them 'This is my special tonight? Sinclair, I try to get my production for the 1st part of the week out of the way, so I have a day or 2 in part to prep my specials,work on new ideas, etc. "Elite"... If 'elite means working in a place where people for the most part do care about food, then I guess I'm in an elite place. But it seems to me we are still struggling to get the recognition, all of us, that we deserve, while other people in town get more press, etc. We'll just strive to do better and better. I have a hard time believing that there isn't somebody in your neck of the woods, Sinclair, and again I say this with respect, that doesn't care about food and see 75% of the big picture. That wouldn't let you run with the ball. That isn't a psycho or a jackass overdosing on testosterone. Maybe it's just going to take a little more time to find them, as hard as that is. I think unless we're in a really great place, we are always going to have to endure stupid suggestions at times from owners, managers and sadly enough, even our chefs. The thing we should not be doing is running away from it or letting us go into an abyss of despair. If the chef can't trust you to do it, or rather WON'T trust you, and is forcing you into doing the kind of stuff that makes you hate your job, LEAVE IT!!! Just get out of there. And if they don't give a damn about the horrible %'s his ideas are selling and they won't give you a chance to do your thing or support your vision and talk to the servers about their lousiness, GET OUT OF THERE!!! In an above post, I wrote about a well known place that I idolized, it was an icon to me. i drove 60 miles to Santa Fe and 60 miles back, 5 days a week to work there. As the "production guy" with maybe a chance to move up into the top position. The P-chef was nice but in another world, which meant being oblivious to the fact that 75 % of his menu wasn't selling. And the chef had his own agenda, which meant ignoring the pastry department. Why stick around that kind of bummer? know what you mean about the lack of equipment. I don't have a table in my whole shop that's level. I'm cooking on portable gas burners. I wish the owner would get me an ice cream machine. So I can sell ice cream and sorbets to the ice cream eaters and get the numbers up more and make him some bucks. That the other place where i work would get a REAL ice cream machine, instead of these cuisiniart home ones. I'm not lying, I swear to god it's true. It's a struggle but like I said before, I'm up for it. tan319 P.S. why are people afraid to post stuff about 'Non-elite' subjects? PMing about stuff they're embarrassed to go public on? I don't think I've ever seen anyone get smacked down here? On second thought, It seems I've seen plenty of threads on "simple" things. I like to read them all. I think we all do. That's what makes this place great.

I'm sorry but I'm missing the "elite' thing. What do you mean by it? And I don't understand the bad/good chef thing. I must have missed it. Steve and Fat guy are mentioning the trend towards less sweet and incorporating savory elements into dessert. I would think like vinegar reductions,etc., as one example. .

Wow!!! What a thread... We have to fight the fight every day. I've been going thru this a bit too, I have to admit. I've consistently gotten better reviews for my desserts then the chefs have gotten for their food, usually w/o a name check. It bothers me a bit, but usually it rolls off my back. The only time I got really pissed is when I gave a recipe for a dessert that was published and my chef got the credit for it! I took care of that quick! Right now, I'm working with my chef and the owner at the main restaurant where I P-chef to get our #s up. This is going to involve some heavy duty server ass kicking but we'll get there, I pray. I'm also working the publicity angle. This involves getting to know your local food writers. I'm also thinking about doing some research into maybe doing some teaching classes thru some of the local media. It couldn't hurt. While we have to know what we can sell in our places, we shoudn't be afraid to do stuff that we want to do, as specials, to see how they sell, and to incorporate techniques that we want to try into components of desserts that are maybe a safe bet. I've spent a considerable amount of time this summer wondering if I wanted to keep doing this. A hot as hell cooking space, humidity in it that rivaled what I just experienced in a short visit to Washington,D.C. last week, shitty and erratic business overall all damn summer had me thinking, fuck this, it's crap, no one else aspires to the level that I do but, for some reason, I feel rejuevanated. Last weeks cover story on El Bulli ( sorry, Sinclair ) in the NYTimes mag, tonights episode on Trio, on FTV's 'Into the Fire', the special I did this weekend, have me considering the possibilities... WE have to keep getting back up off the floor, whether we're "slumming it" or working in a big name, well known joint. The last big deal place I worked at was an appalling mess, pastry wise. So , I said screw it and got the hell out of there before it could make me nutz. It makes me sad to read how some of you are letting those 'meat cookers' get you down. What's that commercial about 'never let'em see you sweat'? If most crews see you getting bugged they're going to ride you all the way home. I had a sous chef suggest an 'ice cream sandwich' to me the other day! I laughed and walked away. I know it was well meant but jesus! What was this guy thinking? Thank god he has no input. I just have to smile, shake my head and let it slide. Sorry to ramble. Sinclair, alanamoana, I hope things get better for both of you soon. Sinclair ,I especially hate to read you so bummed. I wish there was something I could say. I'm sorry if I'm coming off as overly optimistic or something like that. I guess I got a second wind and am thinking about pro-activity and what I can do to make things better. It's hard to keep going sometimes, I know it is, but what else can we do?

Fat Guy makes a great point here. I constantly get ribbed about doing an "oreo cheesecake' or a 'turtle cheesecake', you get the point. Lot's of chefs, cooks consider this kind of stuff incredibly mirthful. Screw them. I get some Oreo crumbs and put them on something totally subversive (to them) just to F--- with their heads. The one thing I would do if I was in a shitty position is get out of it. I left a 30k + bonus' gig once because the chef was just intolerable. Truly an idiot. I went and cooked savory for awhile, with some people I liked. For 1/2 as much money. For awhile. It hurt my wallet till I found something else but I had peace of mind. I suggest to you, Sinclair, with the utmost respect, if your situation is really screwed up and you're that unhappy, you should leave it ASAP. Do something else in the interim, if you have to. I can't imagine you not feeling a load off your mind.

The best one yet. Achatz and Trio, what can one say ? Great stuff. Focus was incredible. Food looks awesome. Chef G. is going all the way. What an inspiration!

I love their stuff. If I had my own place, it's the only one I would serve. Cafe Verona, reg. and decaf would be the house brew. No Illy for me.

I'm glad Steve laid out his stuff, I'm interested in the Yard book, and even more, his thoughts on the 'Cake Bible' were what I rather clumsily was trying to describe in my post way back there. I need communication from a book. I want to connect to the chef. The Balaguer book blew me away because the way it's written makes you excited to try his stuff AND his philosophy of how things work, from the chemistry involved to how you can make your bakeshop/pastry department more efficient is a stunner. You can't help but pick up how knocked out this guy is that he get's to do pastry every day. And the next book I buy is going to be the Bill Yosses book!

I was really excited about it when I saw it but found it an extremely dry read. Not much fun.

I've got to weigh in here too. A wayyyyyyy long time ago, I got the Cake Bible and it wasn't a very easy read, then or now. I found the Albert Adria book an easier read, and it's in Spanish!( i don't mean to sound so catty, sorry) The Nick Malgari stuff I never found really talking to me either. Some of the best dessert recipes I ever did in my early days were out of savoury chef books, Stephan Pyles, most notably. But that's no suprise,considering he worked with Lenotre. It's really shocking to read that the dessert bible went on about weighing and then used volume measures. Pastry books should just start saying 'get a scale, do this right' from here on in. Richard Leaches book, 'Sweet Seasons', gives you the option, although I wish he would have used grams rather then millilters. His book is pretty solid, as far as I can tell. Anything I've made from it has turned out great. BTW, has anyone used any of the Gale Gand books? I would like to see what people think of her books and the results they get.

Hi Michael, and thank you for doing this Q&A session. I loved 'The Soul of a Chef'. My question is, have you or would you ever consider doing a book on what the Adria brothers are doing at El Bulli? Have you been there? Thanks and best wishes for the future.

I thought tonight really made Rocco look like an ass. When I helped open a place in NYC, my chef went out to tables to say hi too, but you can bet his ass was in the kitchen busting his butt, and our's too. If he would have gotten complaints like this, he would have thrown everyone out the door. I realize that this show has more then likely been edited to provide maximum drama and conflict, but this isn't going to ever reflect very well on any of them. And I don't think Topher's treatment was cool, under any circumstance's. he actually held up pretty well, considering how screwed up everything was for him. I have so much respect for Dispirito as the chef of UP, but it's really being tested by this farce. Of course, that doesn't mean I'm going to stop watching it though

It's not your imagination. Damn, Nick! Nice PI work

I'm with everyone here, pistoles are the way to go. No waste, cuts labour, etc. The only block stuff I use now is Valrhona, and that's only because my dist. doesn't carry the feves, or pistoles. My inventory is 95% pistoles.

This guy is good! menu is great. Does anyone know who the pastry chef is? I used to walk by up just to check out the menus and the 'market' specials when I lived there. As I said before , the meal I had there was great.

You have a rather elevated concept of the New York palate I can't tell you how many times I still get requests for mint jelly with lamb chops, completely regardless of their preparation. Mint Jelly? Wasn't that outlawed in like 1964? But seriously, New York is the land of the subsitution, and these so-called palates have no trouble at all rearranging dishes into an unrecognizable mess, which no one in their right mind would put together, and then tell their friends afterwards how the food is so-so or not all that great. I think they should be forced to wear their bill around their neck (laminated) every time they want to play critic, just out of a sense of disclosure. Well, that and so that the world can see the tip they left. Just a thought. I moved away from NYC in 2000, yes people could be a pain, but the places I worked at and dined in(amongst them, Union Pacific) didn't seem to be as showered with inane requests, which I realize were covered intensively on another thread here. That feature seems more to be a reflection of the times we live in, to me affected by 9/11 and the economy and owners jumping thru hoops to please the customer and get their $$$, no matter what. And mint jelly??? "Sorry, we don't have that, sir (ma'am)

Laughed my ass off at this,especially the silicon valley dinner bit."Average day as a chef",indeed! The other night during service, in my boiling hot and humid, non air conditioned dessert part of the restaurant I pastry chef in, far away from the line, my reach in frig door started coming off it's hinges,due to the incompetent service people my place hires for maintinance not being able to find the right 'part' for the last four weeks!!!! Fucking thing is coming off in my hands, six feet tall,the door is I'm 5'7'' on a good day. I nearly ripped the whole door off in anger and frustration. Instead, I threw a bottle of chocolate sauce acroos my space, albeit, right when a hostess is coming down to ask me a question. She decided it might be better left for another time. Man, I love my job!

I know what you mean, Michael. I've just used this method more as an experiment then anything else. But, now that I think of it, I think there is an milling attachment also for the mixer. I've also been trying to keep my inventory down on stuff I don't use all the time, to save the boss some bucks. And leave me leeway on $$$ i can use to buy stuff like chocolate.

I use the fine grinding disc. You may want to lightly dry them out in the oven as they get a slightly wet feel. Chefette,SteveKlc or Michael L. may want to weigh in on this too, just to give their opinon. I was just always seeing ground almonds in recipes and thought why not really grind them? I hope it works out for you. Still waiting for a recipe though... if it's more then the standard 50-50 mix, that is.

Oops! Kinda forgot where I was for a second...heh heh...*gulp* I just meant that it sucked for me. The hours, the stress, it all kind of of got to me after a while and something had to give so I just decided to bail. heh, no, grillboy, I was just asking because I'm looking to join the field, and I'm getting a little jittery about changing my lifestyle from office boy (soft, easy job that makes good money, normal hours, vacation time, benefits, etc), to that of a cook, starting at the CCA (SF) and going from there. so I'm trying to get as many scary details as possible. the reason I'm changing my life around is that I unfortunately am desperately in love with cooking. Sorry to digress but, If I may suggest... I would do some serious assed soul searching before giving up: easy job that makes good money normal hours PAID VACATIONS!!!!! BENEFITS????????????????? Dude(?) take that good money, buy great ingredients and cook for invited guests. In your home. Maybe try to see if you can stage at a place for a week , take notes on how things are done and do at home. Seriously. I think the market is shitty now , depending on where you're located, for employees and owners. Look at the stats that Rocco recites for that Amex open add. 90% failure rate. It's a noble gig, cooking, but, you're giving up a lot if you follow your nose into this.

Someone beat him to it...it's called Buca di Beppo, a chain of Italian restaurants spreading throughout most of the United States. Buca's home page Just to clarify, I thought the poster was talking about Union Pacific being expanded or opened wide, so to speak. Why he would want to get into a meatballs and red sauce franchise with all the competition from the Buca de beppos and Olive Gardens, et al, would mystify me. Christ, even Emeril hasn't gotten that bad, has he?

I use a kitchen aid food grinder attachment to grind nuts. Works a charm. How do you make your almond flour, if you don't mind sharing ...

Do something that is more what you want to be doing.