robert brown

Perusing the latest Paris issue of The Art of Eating, I saw that Edward Behr discusses Le Bamboche in appealing terms. As I am looking for a few places to go to in early December, I am wondering if anyone has first-hand experience at this restaurant.

Magnolia, I'll be coming in from Orly. La Regalade is an obvious choice in that situation, but I booked for lunch the next day. Perhaps I will change it. Le Severo, also in the 14th, sounds good, but I don't know if it serves late. Anyone know it?

My pal Louie the foodie, whose taste is virtually unerring (barely a single example of Cabernet Sauvignon among his 3000 cases of wine); who has lived in Providence for over 30 years; and wears his gourmandness with quiet confidence, calls Empire the best restaurant in town.

And the musical instrument work is by Arman who, so the scuttlebutt goes, trades his work for meals. That is why you see them at Maximin, L'Arpege, and other restaurants that slip my mind. Is there anyone who can add to the list?

I will be returning to Paris late from a day trip and will need a restaurant that serves after 10:00 PM. Who knows of any that serves respectable food?

FG, I cheated and looked on the web. It was the George Gobel Show, which was a key ingredient in the so-called "Golden Age of Television".

What TV show was it that John Scott Trotter was the music director? (If I could remember the answer, I would give the first correct poster a dinner for two at his son's restaurant. "You Bet Your Life" sticks in my mind, but I don't think it had a lot of music requirements.)

Awbrig, what kind of client of yours is CT? PR?

Cabrales, would you care to give us more from the article or provide a link if it is on-line? Thanks.

I’m not sure how seamlessly this goes into the flow, but I believe that there are two phenomena that account for the role of fine dining in the culture and how it is played out. The first is what the social scientists called a “badge”, which simply means that similar to a Boy Scout wearing his merit badges, the fact of where we ate last night, or where we will eat tonight, or where we have eaten in the past has somehow become a type of merit badge; perhaps a conspicuous consumption one, a well-traveled one, etc. (How this got to be so is a separate topic for another day, another thread.) An adjunct to this is that like wine (which preceded good food in this context), good food can confer, or give a gossamer notion of, an immediate impression of sophistication and connoisseurship. The second aspect that plays heavily into the elevation of fine dining in everyday life is, to put it into a context that posters above have implied, the dilution of luxury. (Steve’s comparison of vintage Louis Vuitton steamer trunks to the Louis Vuitton products of today is an apt one). The world abounds with examples; certain stores in outlet malls; boutique and new Ritz-Carlton and Four Seasons hotels; low-price Gucci, Prada, Armani, etc; and any number of wines and restaurants with pretense or aspirations. The unfortunate result is a kind of disguised shoddiness and formula-like approaches that permeate the world of leisure time. While some vestiges of old-time luxury remain, the fine dining sphere strikes me as particularly hard hit. I have discussed this many times in the past, so I am loath to do it again. Thus, to return to the general theme of JD (London)’s terrific thread and post, I would say that the ex-cuisine message that many restaurants are sending is in the nature of “Dining in our restaurants will give you something to talk about; you will appear to others as not being a cheapskate when it comes to eating; and you will be radiating a sense of sophistication and of being ‘au courant’ ”. I hope I will be able to illustrate these concerns better when I post my impressions of my recent, brief, and first foray to the Napa Valley.

Who's Kurova?

For various reasons I have had to be doing other things and have been absent from this fun discussion. Now I will be away from a computer until 10/21 or 22. I just want to say that what people have ovelooked is that France excelled in the decorative arts, pre-WWII, and Italy in industrial design. In fact I would have to think hard about an example of significant French industrial design (the post-war Citroen comes to mind). More great industrial design came from Olivetti than from all of France, let alone Fiat. As far as every day decorative arts after WWII, the Italians have it all over the French: Gavina, Allessi, Memphis, Mulino, Gio Ponti. In architecture, Renzo Piano, Aldo Rossi,etc. I gotta run.

L'Astrance is the capital of "futz" food as in "futzing around". The cuisine lacks heart and soul, as does the room and the service. They just bring out one concoction after the other, few that are memorable or memorizeable. I went in late June and was made to feel like a highly-manipulated pawn. It is interesting that at least four veteran eaters on the board disliked it.

Heston, I’m getting a bit nervous about Molecular Gastronomy. I’m concerned that it may be overshadowing the tried and true, if not proven, field of Solid State Gastronomy. I may be alone in mourning its demise, but I still like a solid piece of meat; tearing into a solid whole chicken for two, perhaps with truffles under its skin; a solid, entire fish like a sea bass “en croute”. I have nothing against foams, capsules, and jellies, but my mom told me that in order to be a happy lad, I should have at least two solid meals a day. Any chance that Solid State Gastronomy will ever make a comeback? Since satire is what closes on Saturday night, let me be serious and ask you this legitimate question: I have not seen the expression in many years, but I remember food writers of 20 years ago speaking of the cuisine of certain Nouvelle Cuisine chefs as having a taste that “explodes in the mouth”. Perhaps currently less-sensitive taste buds are a bit of a factor, but I remember enjoying food at the great restaurants of France tasting better than it does in all but a handful of restaurants today. As I have stated or implied many times (maybe now too many times) on e-Gullet, I find that besides less generosity, more “control-freaking” (not only are more chefs telling you what you have to eat, but also how to eat it), I also find less succulence or naturalness in my dishes, often so with the unexpected Adria-inspired dish that I encounter. In fact, so far (and this does not include The Fat Duck which, believe me, is visit number one the next time I go to the UK) I would have to say that Adria-inspired food works best in the context of a meal “Chez Adria”. In the interest of brevity, then, how do you view cuisine that is offered in new delivery systems (or altered states) vis a vis cuisine made by complete, masterly chefs using impeccable produce stunningly prepared and made with tried and true technique, and do you think that the collaboration of chef and food scientist is slated for a meaningful long term future?

Steve, apparently I missed your definition of "gourmet" and I'm too lazy to find it. I got the impression that you defined it in terms of modern gastrnomy, but I'm not sure. I have to admit that I have been to only seven of the restaurants in the Gambero Rosso link you posted, and two of them were a very long time ago. Next summer I plan to visit the ones in Lombardia and Emilio-Romagno. So I'm not really qualified to say what the more innovative Italian chefs are doing and how it stacks up to their colleagues in other countries. My hunch is, however, that they are trying things out that one might find very interesting and novel. Like you, though, my next trip will be for wine and truffles and probably no top Gambero Ross restaurants other than Guido.

How does the word "gourmet" get caught up in the definition? A gourmet has a love and appreciation of all things gustatory regardless of the extent of the leading edge of whatever food a gourmet is eating. I wouldn't mind Steve's definition if it didn't apply so much to food that is mucking up so many of my meals.

Steve, I think there are two prongs to Italian cuisine. However, for what ever reason, the people behind it do not want to seem to conquer the world. Fifteen years or so, dining at San Domenico in Imola was a goal of many international foodists and for whatever reason Tony May decided to exploit the name and, to a certain extent, the cuisine by opening on Central Park South. It seems that the New York restaurant does well, although I haven't been there after the first year or two that it opened. (We also have the Cipriani family and the Torre di Pisa, not to mention Bice and, I think, Paper Moon, but those places are not "nuova cucina" ones). The sinister reason there are not more San Domenicos and awareness of all the restaurants in Italy that are tweaking classical Italian cuisine (and there are lots of them) is that they are owned and operated by families that want to work together and not venture to where they have to use ingredients that are not appropriate, or up to snuff, than what they use in the one restaurant they have. But look, on the terms that you discuss relevance, French food is still the most used and studied by chefs wanting to make more innovative or personalized food. Yet, as I implied above, I think we are in some kind of transititional period where one encounters increasingly cuisine that does not holler out one particular country. El Bulli is the only restaurant that I rearranged my schedule for. Doing so, however, was a function of the inordinate difficulty of securing a table. Lots of times I was willing to take a NY-France trip based on the the possibility of getting a table in the late 1980s and early 1990s at Robuchon. I never had to do it in the end for my one visit there, but I would have. (I'm sure you remember how difficult reserving there was). So Steve, when are you leaving for your white truffle and Nebbiolo tasting? Where precisely are you wining and dining? We all like forward to reading your report. We trust you will keep an open mind.

Steve, we don't know if there is an Arnsbourg-type restaurant in Italy since no one, including myself, either has ever been, or recently been, to L'Ambasciata, Vissani, the Hilton in Rome, Enoteca Pinchiori, and several others. But even if one had and no single one resembled L'Arnsboourg, it is interesting that both Lizziee and Bux say that that restaurants could conceiveably be in lots of different locales even outside of France. My theory is that with all the restaurants being started in the USA, Great Britain, Australia, and dozens of other countries, modern gastronomy (cooking, really) has been so altered by the need for chefs, most of whom come late to the profession. Thus the killer technique that chefs like the Troisgros, Bocuse, Chapel, Guerard,etc. is viewed as not necessary and, under the circumstances, unlearnable except by the relative handful of chefs who are starting out as adolescents and learning from complete chefs. The end result is that we get a mish-mosh of cuisines thrown into the mix. Thus, certain Asian cuisines contribute this, Italian cuisine contributes that, US cuisine contributes such and such, and French whatever, and what you get in an increasing number of restaurants is a hodge-podge with no one cuisine totally dominating. The one single cuisine at the bottom of all this is still French, but I don't see its influence enjoying any kind of resurgence; probably it is slowly diminishing.

Tony, that's the best sentiment so far. You put it succinctly and brilliantly.

Steve P., what do you think Edward Behr meant when he wrote these two comments in "The Art of Eating" # 61; pgs. 18 and 19, respectively: I was glad to eat Heston Blumenthal's food, and I admire his talent. More than a handful of other chefs, notably in Spain and Italy, also pursue highly innovative cooking. Even the most experimental French and Italian chefs that I know of refer to tradition in their cooking. They take a familiar dish and racically reinterpret it. They retain certain sauces. They repeat certain established highly successful combinations of flavors.

Thanks Liz and Cabrales for the thorough and enlightening coverage of L'Arnsbourg. I can see I will have to make an effort to dine there. Peter R., I am glad yu made out well at Lourmarin and that my somewhat negative post did not deter you. I hope you will ost abuot the France part of your trip as you visited some addresses I am interested to hear about.

What exactly does it mean that the fish gets delivered twice a day? Moved from one place to another or what? All I know is that I buy my fish at Rosedale because half the fish at Citarella looks like someone should have already disposed of it. Also the two times the butchers made recent mistakes-once the wrong cut and the other charging me for sirloin instead of loin of pork-and I brought it to the attention of customer service after i arrived at my house, their reaction was one of transferring blame; i.e. it was your fault because you didb't notice it at the store. They ofered to make good if I brought both the cashier's ticket and the label from the package. But to tell you the truth, I haven't gone back to see if I would get my money back, no questions asked. I only shop there under duress. It's such an unfriendly, mercenary place. It kills me to see how much longer their checkout lines are than the more civilized stores.

Hooooooooooray for Hollywood!!!!

What muddies the waters in this discussion is its two-pronged nature. Certain of us approach it from a quasi-theoretical position of French cuisine being more innovative or influential and Italian cuisine more traditional and less exciting. Others such as me take a more hands-on, experiential position based upon a empirical “data” derived from spending time in both France and Italy. My best general statement based on the current evidence is that when I make gastronomic travels in Italy, I feel like a food lover and am treated like one, whereas when I make such trips in France I feel like a restaurant client and am made to feel like one. I am in complete agreement that the French chefs, along with some Continental, Anglo-Saxon and even a certain number of Italian, make more attempts at innovation than what most people perceive as the monolith known as Italian cuisine. However, does that make it better, more satisfying, and enduring than Italian cuisine? Does it even make it more desirable on more occasions? Even that historically Italian cuisine may have been less influential than classic or modern French cuisine, as a present day practical matter it is not very relevant since, unlike literature, music, or painting, we are unable to grasp and retain culinary achievements. People forgot that the flip side of “happening” is obsolescence. If French cuisine were vastly more relevant than Italian, then why is it today that the innovative aspect of it is becoming increasingly less attractive and even less French? Or why is eating in many famous French becoming more of a crap shoot with chefs having to substitute classicism with dishes that are not conceptually sound in order to create buzz-like meals or to fill a menu? We might ask ourselves as well whether or not the premium put on “artiste” food is also making well-executed classic French dishes harder to find and less significant. I am sure that the experienced visitor of restaurants in Italy has noticed one phenomenon that no one has yet mentioned: that as soon as you leave Italy, Italian food changes. Whatever the reasons are for this, and it no doubt has to do with the changing nature of produce and the disappearance of regionality, it manifests itself in making Italian food one that does not travel as well. No one either has mentioned ‘internationale” Italian cuisine, which accounts for virtually all of the dishes you get other the purported highly-defined regional classics made with primary ingredients that do not come from Italy. I also think that most Italian restaurants outside of Italy lack Italian chefs. Sure, all the restaurateurs are Italian (often waiters who worked in other domestic and foreign Italian restaurants), but I get the distinct notion that the chefs are largely multi-national. Taken together, might these two circumstances prevent at least some meaningful innovation in Italian cuisine from taking place externally, unlike with French food where ex-pat French chefs have influenced their native cuisine? Several people have brought up interesting points that I would like to jump in on. I hope I get a chance to do so later Quickly I will add that art dealers prefer the Berkshires for the same reasons they do Italy except the richest ones who work over their clients out in the Hamptons every summer. Francesco, the story about Santin is indelibly etched in my mind. Let me know what you find out. Mogsob, it is so true what you wrote about ingredients. It is the freshness of the main ingredients as much as “frutta e verdura” that gets to me: the San Remo crevettes, the veal from Cuneo, the rabbits, the fish, and the integrity with which they are offered. I almost forgot to include a passage (not to be taken as an appeal to authority) written by Edward Behr in the current issue of his “The Art of Eating”, which is devoted to English food. Having visited the avant-garde restaurant near London, The Fat Duck, (not a restaurant one would associate with Behr), he wrote: “I was glad to eat Heston Blumenthal’s food, and I admire his talent. More than a handful of other chefs in the world, notably in Spain and Italy, also pursue innovative cooking. But I find traditional food much more complex because it draws on much more of human experience, both in agriculture and in the kitchen. It reflects the logic of hand methods and an understanding of the relationship between a place and the plants and animals that came to thrive there. Traditional food exploits combinations arrived at over generations and at a time when eating was a more important part of life than it is today. It’s true that our habits have changed and our knowledge has increased and that old recipes usually benefit from re-examination. But not so much that they cease to express their rich sources. Compared with most newly invented dishes, traditional food is more obviously and reassuringly in touch with nature, and it is much more harmonious (to borrow the key word of the Italian gastronomic writer Luca Vercelloni).”

Gavin, that's an interesting adaptation from the Gambero Rosso. Marcus, there isn't any reliable printed source for restaurants in terms of leading you to the best. I think the Gambero Rosso restaurant is, as Francesco pretty much said, better than many French three-star restaurants (based on my one meal). I think there are a lot of concepts buzzing around here that we haven't come to grips with yet such as why art-loving people prefer eating in Italy (because there is so much art one must see there); why the major tourist cities have so few really good restaurants, and, as Gavin brings up, why the foostuffs in Italy, which are the freshest and thus the best, don't count as much as razzamatazz in discussions of where one goes to experience the best food.