robert brown

Two cheeses that come in and that strike me as being close to what you find in France are "Le Chevrot" and 'Peraille de Brebis". Any other possible candidates for cheeses found in New York that are "as good as they get"?

Steven, I never saw "Younger than 60 Days" written on a cheese label. But were you saying that it's French cheeses only that get stopped as opposed to young raw milk Italian? Furthermore, how would you know? I think Tony's scenario takes place among the real specialists. Or are you saying that the raw-milk, under 60 day stuff is put out with the legal cheese? If so, where?

Does anyone know how the wholesale cheese market is structured in New York? How many wholesalers and how specialized? While I get the impression 95% are coming from the same importers, clearly there are some special situations like DiPalo's red cow Parmesan that few, if any, other stores sell. Of course the number of cheeses in New York cheese and "gourmet" shops is overwhelming. In the best cheese shops in France you never see nearly that number. I don't think the famous Ceneri in Cannes offers more than 75 or so at one time. The large number available here is a function of shelf life or fragility, given the large number of pasteurized and long-aged cheeses. As far as I can tell, the main dependent variable is judicious buying of inventory and the willingness to throw out cheese that has gone bad. By not letting you taste or wrapping the cheese in multi-layers of Saran Wrap, such factors really stack the deck against the consumer. I rarely buy cheese in New York of late, but when I did fairly often (not so long ago), no matter where you went it was the luck of the draw if the cheese you hoped to buy had not been sitting around a long time (even in the basement) or had just arrived. It was like walking through a minefield. Were I compelled to make a diverse selection for a dinner party and wanted to go to one store only, I would probably go to Artisinal or Murray's. (Did Steve Jenkins leave Fairway? I would go there if he hasn't; but I recall that he did). When I do buy cheese every few weeks, I only go to DiPalo's because I know that I will come home with great Parmesan and home made ricotta and mozzarella. If I want to add something else, I taste whatever I want there so that I slowly add additional Italian cheeses to my purchasing arsenal, even though they have a relatively small variety.

When Jonathan first composed this topic two months ago, I thought it would not go very far, especially now considering that it comes on just after the "Balance" thread. I was wrong about that one. NickN raises an interesting point about having more than one chef preparing a dinner. It used to happen quite a bit in Europe. Of course those meals were more like no-choice banquets that no doubt put a premium on both balance and counterpoint. I have to wonder then, as I approach the phenomenon from my customary institutional/socio-economic perspective, if concepts such as balance contrast, counterpoint, and whatever are a result of less or total lack of choice in present-day eating out. I hardly recall them being bandied about in the 1970s and 1980s. To me there is way (lingo, perhaps) that certain contemporary chefs talk about food or meals that did not exist before. This is a potentially rich topic for another day (unless, of course, Jonathan posts it).

Just another, and latest, manifestation of the New York Times three-star restaurant theory I posited a few months ago. What about the notion that Grimes is wobbly or less reliable above two stars?

When I left, Sri Lanka was 123 for none. But I have no idea what inning it was. Diwan also had the match on a TV by the bar. The set, however, was not suspended as in a sports bar, but on a shelf or cabinet below eye level behind the patrons. If I didn't know the basics of the game, I wold probably bitch and moan about plonking a big-screen TV in the middle of the front dining area. The broadcast came thorugh Dish TV. I assume it was live since it was the next morning in Asia. Is live cricket a staple of Dish TV, does anyone know? Does anyone have a result of both the match and the series so far? It must be on the web somewhere. What, by the way, is the best web site for cricket news and results? Is there a counterpart to the Major League Baseball site?

My guess, from being at the table when all this happened, is that the restaurant serves too many people to be able to cook on a customized basis. It appeared to us that about 100 people were dining in what was a full house. That's a lot more than a lot of accomplished chefs like to have at any one time.

Simon, we ate at Diwan last night with Marcus and his wife. My wife ordered the butter chicken and had the same opinion as you. Otherwise I have recently been finding myself bothered by some extremely salty spice Indian chefs put on Tandoori dishes that almost ruins the pleasure of eating them. I never was bothered by this until a year or two ago. Any insight? Nonetheless I like the restaurant. All of our four appetizers were very good. I did get distracted by the large screen set up in the middle of the room for the Sri Lanka-Bangledesh cricket match. I didn't even know Bangladesh had an international team.

Victor, do you know Jacques Gantie? Maybe he does dine "anonymously"and pays his way. Outside of Michelin, do you know any French guys who do? I thought I was making the point to take his recommendations with the proverbial grain of salt. The woman, Claude Chartron, would probably love to be invited to your place, Steve, as she may have never been to New York. It's nice home cooking, but I think if you are going to get a chef from France, you would be happier with Passard. I remember reading aninterview with Derek Brown in the Financial Times in which he said restaurants in France were better than ever. (Talking about grains of salt).

Lizziee has conceived and written the following topic: Michel Trama, chef of the two-star Loges de l'Aubergade, in Puymirol, says, "All my searching has one goal: to sharpen and satisfy our five senses. I try always to orchestrate elements for the satisfaction of our senses. For me, a dish should be beautiful: well-presented to attract the eye, aromatic to excite the sense of smell. The savor must satisfy the palate and the crispness between the teeth make pleasant music to the ear. Touch is also satisfied, because at my place one resorts to fingers for sucking a shellfish." Trama is speaking of balance within one dish, but I think that this same balance extends beyond one dish and should be reflected in the meal as a whole. For me, dining is multi-dimensional and the appetite is stimulated by all of the senses. A chef must balance not only flavor, but also color, texture, shape and temperature. A meal should have a symphonic flow to it. The diner takes responsibility for this flow when ordering à la carte, which formerly was the rule rather than the exception, especially in France. Ordering à la carte, the diner's quest for balance and flow requires help from the maitre d' or wait staff. I am reminded of a review of Taillevent in the October 1998 issue of "La Belle France". At that time, there were no fixed price menus, and the reviewers ordered "boudins de homard à la nage" as a first course and langoustines with cabbage as a second. Their complaint was that they were "submerged in a sea of beurre blanc sauce". The fault for the lack of menu balance clearly fell on the front of the house. A tasting or chef's menu, in contrast, should reflect the chef's vision of balance and as Trama says, "stimulate and satisfy all our senses" and touch all of the elements I listed above: For flavor, I expect something sweet, tart, bland, salty, and sour in each meal. I find my palate dulled when one flavor dominates. For color, I look for contrasting and attractive combinations. Think how unappetizing a plate of white meat turkey, mashed potatoes, and cauliflower would be. For texture, I look for a combination of crisp, soft, chewy, and firm. Some menus feature mousse after mousse, foam after foam: I feel as if I have lost my teeth and am eating baby food. I like a mix of shapes and sizes, with items that are flat, round, long, chopped, shredded, heaped, tubular, square, etc. For temperature, I want both hot, cold, tepid, lukewarm, even icy foods. Two chefs' comments are relevant to the issue of balance: For Thomas Keller, the answer is "five to ten small courses, each meant to satisfy your appetite and pique your curiosity. I want you to say, 'God, I wish I had just one more bite of that. 'The way to keep the experience fresh is not by adding flavors, but rather by focusing more on specific flavors, either by making them more intense than the foods from which they come, or by varying the preparation technique." For "chefg" at Trio (click here), balance encompass surprise, fun, entertainment, even drama. "Trio wants to produce an experience that takes diners to every gastronomically tangible place known. The ceiling is nonexistent in this kitchen, the blinders are removed, but the focus is intense. This experience in dining goes beyond food and hunger. It is entertainment, if the guest is willing to let it be." What do you think of as the most important elements of achieving balance in a meal? Do you consider balance when designing meals that you cook yourself? What good and less good experiences of balance have you encountered?

Menton1, I buy the Gantie every year and use it extensively. Jacques Gantie is the restaurant reviewer for Nice-Matin and appears to eat for free because he never disparages any restaurant. However, the Guide is indispensable for people spending significant amounts of time in Provence or the Cote d'Azur because it includes just about every restaurant of any signficance. If you can read the descriptions, you can learn about some oddball and otherwise unusual places you might otherwise remain in the dark about. He even includes a woman in Carros (just north of the Nice Airport on the N202) who serves dinner in her house. I have gotten to know her and she comes and cooks for us from time to time when we have a group of friends in for dinner. Whenever possible, it is wise to get a second opinion from Michelin or Gault-Maillau. Otherwise, you're on your own.

In France?

Vedat, Michelin is a major company on the Paris Bourse. Cabby, I'm disappointed that you, me and Steve P. couldn't take away a star from Maximin. I trust the three of us more than the Michelin.

John, no doubt you set the standard for how one would wish Q&A subjects to participate. Your sensitivity, observations and wit are rare in a field filled with pomposity and "know-it-alls". I thank you for your whole-hearted participation. It was one of the great highlights for the eGullet community.

M. Jamin must be turning over in is grave. Gerard Besson and Dominique Bouche both worked for him. Has anyone ever thought about how sophisticated and "gourmand" a typical Michelin inspector is? I am willing to wager that they are roughly equivalent to middle-class bureaucrats in terms of sensibility. Who comes closer to some kind of objective truth: Their guys or us eGullet diners in France?

By its nature, all writing of a critical or historical nature that is more than compiling a timeline or an unannoted bibliography is "personal". It's a matter of when the writer adds material that is not germane to the topic. Of course a person who is trying to make a point about a meal and can draw on a prevous meal he or she had, or uses such for comparison is someting I don't consider extraneous or egocentric. I think what we may really be asking ourselves is if food writing is more worthy of journalism than a branch of humanistic criticism or "heavyweight" reading. That it can be, and is, accounts for the large number of books I find myself tempted to buy every time I go into a bookstore in New York or Paris.

If you believe that the way people write about certain sphere of human activity is a commentary on the nature of the activity, then food writing or criticism can make us think twice as to whether foodmaking is an art form. I never heard that Bernard Berenson or Erwin Panofsky ever mixed in their European travels in their art historical theories or criticism. In probably more instances or not, food writing has become a sub-division or travel writing more than serioous critical writing. Of course there is also the burgeoning field of culinary history which by its nature excludes the personal. But is that endeavor what we are talking about here?

It specializes in soft-shell crabs.

I had lunch at La Conchiglia about six years ago. It faces the sea in a rather bustling commercial tourist part of town. The food there is very good, but I have to admit I have not had an overwhelming desire to return. Even though we sat on the terrace on a beautiful day with four friends, the service was rather cold or not too friendly. We have had a couple of meals in Albenga, a quite funky town,and I get the impression that you could walk into any respectable-looking resaurant, order a fritto misto of fish and walk away really content. I can't seem to find one we really liked. The chef was old and perhaps he closed the place down in the last two years. My most vivid memory was going into the kitchen to complain that the only other diner during our lunch had received an interesting-looking dish that wasn 't on the menu. The chef's answer was to pick up a menu and point to two dishes that he had put together for this person and say, "Look, this is on the menu and that one's on the menu". I wish I could find the name since the food (and the place) was simple, really fresh and tasty. All I can say that it was in the eastern part of town and on a quiet street a few blocks in from the sea on the side of the street closer to the sea.

John, I hung out there in the early '60s when running the Filmmakers' Cinematheque on E. 4th Street. My spots were the B&H Dairy Luncheonette (still there, at least until recently and mentioned on eGullet a year or so ago) and the Gems Spa. There were the Polish restaurants on First Ave. or Ave. A. I also lived for a while on 8th St. between First and A, near the Jazz Gallery. Does any of that ring a bell? And let's not forget the Fillmore East and Ratner's.

John, between our little e-mail exchange and reading the first half or so of "Serious Pig", I still have not discovered where your dedication to culinary research and practice comes from. An appreciation of food seems to have resided in certain member os your family, including grandparents, and having to fend for yourself as a young lad also seems to have entered the picture. Perhaps you explain it in the books of yours I haven't read yet. In any event, will you explain for the enlightenment of the eGullet community how and when you decided to devote yourself to the preparation and narrative of cuisine and cooking at the neglect of whatever else you may have considered for a livelihood?

Philippe, can you give us some examples or perhaps deliniate between the different kind of food shops and where you like to shop? I would be interested to hear about the less-obvious stores.

While the above writings of vmilor and Lord Michael Lewis may seem applicable only to the food lovers who seek out the "Temples of Modern Gastronomy", the matters that they raise are at the heart of the present and future of restaurant-going from the mid-level up. My suspicion is that age is a factor as to how much one becomes alarmed at an impending loss of culinary heritage that is nearly universal in the western world: The demand for experiencing tried and true examples of culinary heritage is diminishing with each new generation as they pay homage to undertrained and mediocre chefs. While we have had many discussions during the past year on the state of dining that ranks higher than plebian, vmilor and Lord Michael Lewis have made me think about what is a loss of new additions to the canon of great and enduring dishes. I believe the Post-Modern chefs have contributed next to nothing in this regard, with their contributions being of the application of technique rather than those of a compositional one. Within the context of vmilor's thread, it would be interesting to hear your nominations of dishes (both savory and sweet or combination thereof) that have come from Post-Modern chefs that you think have "legs", or, if you want, argue that attempts to make specific, memorable dishes; i.e. tomorrow's classics" is no longer relevant or significant.

Awbrig, where was the foie gras from?

Matthew, Verge for one. He regained a second star in the 2002 Guide. Ducasse in Monaco is another over the past several years (very volatile, that one). It went 3-2-3-2. I am sure the phenomenon in question happened before at the three-star level. I will have a look later. Anyway, I wouldn't go to either restaurant now.