robert brown

Gilles Pudlowski writes for "Le Figaro" and has a program on Gourmet TV in which he travels around France and pals it up with chefs as they make a meal for him and themselves. You have to read between the lines in the rare instance, but since he is everybody's friend, the Pudlo is essentially only useful as an address book of gastronomic resources. Since Gault-Millau no longer publishes what was a really good guide to Paris that covered more than gastronomy, the Pudlo Paris is the only publicaton of its kind. As for his national guide, I don't buy it every year either.

NickN, absolutely not. I am sure there are many who would argue your position as well. It addresses one of the issues that is at the core of the topic starter. Have you read John Thorne's marvelous book Serious Pig? As I wrote above, it takes place in your neck of the woods.

Reading my way through Serious Pig by food writer and newsletter publisher John Thorne, I have gained new respect for traditional, classic (maybe even historic) American cuisine. Serious Pig is in part based on Thorne's "Simple Cooking" newsletters from the early 1990s, when he and his wife were living in Maine. Among the produce and dishes Thorne writes about in evocative, adoring and detailed prose are baked beans, clam rolls, gingerbread, blueberry pie, lobsters, and local breakfast fare. As a New Englander, it reminded me of food I had while visiting the seashore of Connecticut and Massachusetts as well as the traditional foods I have eaten in the South. Although my attention later turned to dining in Europe, I always have had a soft spot for lobster pounds, clam houses, steak restaurants, and diners. As I find many "creative" American chefs attempting to create beyond their training and abilities and, therefore, a dearth of quality in their restaurants, I have begun to reassess the glories of "good old-fashioned American cooking". (Of course America has its more legendary and very popular types of cooking such as barbeque, Creole, shore dinners, Tex-Mex and the like. Yet there are many areas or regions of the country whose cuisine one never encounters.) What about yourself? Do you consider classic American food to be more than just "road food" or tourist food? Does it deserve to have a pedigree or standing that ranks it alongside traditional French or Italian food? Does the pressure of the marketplace to drive chefs and restaurateurs to offer personal or inventive food come at the expense of the preservation of classic American dishes? Do you believe that classic American food is adequately available in major cities or do you wish it were more readily available? Do you incorporate traditional American dishes into your cooking repertoire?

It is a good point that "It ain't easy......" raises about foodies wanting to hold chefs above human aspirations and the reasons that lead to it. It reminds me of Peter Paul Ruebens and Andy Warhol, both of whom had assistants execute their paintings. That fact doesn't seem to dampen the ardour of collectors and institutions who acquire such works. In a sphere of human activity, however, that is transitory and of less financial import, demanding diners want to know that the craftsman involved is putting his hands on the food. However, I am sure that Ruebens and Warhol kept a watchful eye on those doing the actual painting (or silkscreening). At the top level of dining, both in terms of prestige and price, what may be the sorest point is chef's charging the same amount in each of their top restaurants when they can only be in one place at a time.

http://www.coa.gatech.edu/arch/images/pdfs...k%202002-03.pdf. See page 16.

Steven, I think it is people like me you are referring to: hopeless romantics in search of culinary days of yore. I once likened Ducasse and others of becoming more like couturiers than traditional chefs;`i.e. licensors and being more like giving approvsl to the handiwork of others who work in the style of the master (although I think that it hasn't reached the level in the kitchen that it has in clothing design, given the internationalization and sheer size of the latter). I wonder if experienced gastronomes dining in Ducasse's New York restaurant feel if they are eating Ducasse's cuisine one step removed. Is knowing that it is, in a way, enough to make one feel that way?

As they attain a certain level of notoriety in the food world, many chefs become restaurant developers, investors and media figures. Chefs invest not only in their own restaurants but also in ventures of other chefs. They join the pretentiously named groups ("Chef's Conclave") that design or endorse airline meals. They do television programs. This is a recent phenomenon, one that barely existed in the early part of the second half of the 20th century. All these things take chefs away from the profession they first embraced. They are businesspeople first, cooks second -- if at all. Therefore: Does the culinary ledger show more of a deficit by having branches of famous chef restaurants in Las Vegas, Palm Beach, London, Paris, and even New York? Are we better off when a top chef branches out to lower "price points" and into even an entirely different kind of cuisine, or does it seem rare to you that an intelligent and energetic chef can conceive and oversee a multitude of restaurants without sacrificing his or her culinary development? Can a chef satisfy both investors' need for steady profit growth and his or her own artistic standards? Has this playing for higher economic stakes cheapened or de-romanticized or de-personalized dining as you have come to know and enjoy it? In general, then, do you welcome this new variant in dining out, or are food lovers worse off because of it?

Joe H;, Last year's menu, at any rate, was similar to a small greeting card with the restaurant's omnipresent black and white "corporate identity" of the shadowy rendition of a bulldog on the cover as you see it on the web site. Pages two and three list the dishes in small, simple classic computer type. You may want to buy one long and narrow frame. I suggest a double window mat, each window bevelled, one surrounding the cover and the other the two inside pages. Consider a narrow "float" between the object and the inside edges of the window. Keep it simple , perhaps with a narrow black molding for the frame. If you want the menu for the ages, tell your framer to use archival materials so that there is no acidity that will form. Of course get at least two menus and keep the other one in a dark place. I think you can also get a menu with a red cover and a separate card listing your wines. Most of all, have a tremendous time. I admire your making the trip.

The Vistabella is the best hotel in Rosas, although if you are going there before Palm Sunday, it is closed. I won't stay in a hotel that is less than three roofs in the Michelin, so it looks like the nearest comparable place in early April is WSW of Figueras by a golf course. You also have to know where to get off the main road that goes through Roses to get on the road that goes to El Bulli. It is on the left, obviously, as you head away from Figueras. For those of you going after Palm Sunday, the Vistabella is quite decent, but not real luxurious. It's on the sea, has a small indoor swimming pool and, according to my wife, a great masseuse. If you stay two night, don't miss Adria's favorite restaurant in the town, which is a barebones grilled fish place called Rafa's. He has no sign, but it is on the main walking street next to an Italian ice cream shop. Calle Sant Sebastia, 56. (972-254003.) It is as memorable in its way as El Bulli itself.

In addressing the parts of Jaz's topic about taking an active role and control over one's restaurant meals, I simpy want to reiterate what I have stated before: It is that what I dislike very much in what I have called the New Dining is the increasing lack of autononomy that diners have. Of course there are still many restaurants that pose a challenge to exacting as good as meal as possible from a myriad of choices. Yet we encounter an increasing number of restaurants in which not only is there an abject lack of choice that has been followed by attempts to dictate the accompanying wines,followed yet again by instructions of how and in what order to eat your food. I do not want to make a blanket condemnation of these practices since I have had some excellent and enjoyable meals when a restaurant has tied my hands behind my back. Overall, however, there is a trend here that I don't feel is beneficial to great dining experiences.

I don't know how long it will take for the restaurant to reply, but you have to take into account that on the 15th January the administration could have received literally thousands of requests for around 160 dinner seances. It has to take several days to assign each e-mail adn fax to a date (and think of all the ones that give the restaurant leeway) and decide who gets in and who doesn't. It could be awhile.

Deacon, I meant to put forth the notion that a person can be well-dined without necessarily dining in Europe or the expensive restaurants in America. I consider Calvin Trillin and Jane and Michael Stern well-dined and they never admit to eating anything other than what has been called "prol food". eGullet has many well-informed and ardent eaters (perhaps even yourself) who spend a lot of time researching and going to "de rigeur", but not necessarily expense places. Trying to determine the best pizza in New York or fried clams on Boston's North Shore is all part of the pursuit to become well-dined.

Marty, I'm on the Ledoyen bandwagon after a magical dinner there on 12/9. Now a three-star because of the somewhat conservative but delicious cooking of Christian Le Squer that transported me back to the glory days of France in the 1970s and 1980s, I walked out a very happy fellow. The setting in the Carre Champs-Elysee behind the Petit Palais and in its own historical 17th century pavillion is unlike any you will see, with the exception of its neighbor, Restaurant Laurent. Although the service was fine, the staff was stand-offish; really, my only criticism. The prices for the cuisine and the wines are eminently fair given the quality and the gorgeous, opulent interior. We ordered a la carte, but the menu (based on a chosen selection of dishes available on the a la carte side of the menu) had what seemed like the best dishes. My three tablemates each ordered one dessert, but in choosing the dessert sampler, I was served four or five in generous portions. It may well have satisfied the whole table. Certain share one if you are two. Otherwise at La Regalade I asked for names of places the chef liked. Unfortunately the list his wife(?) gave me is still in France. However, Yves Camdeborde has done a cookbook with some of those chef-restaurateurs. Anyone out there have it?

Just to add another ingredient to the mix, and one I should have addressed at the beginning since I have thought about quite often, let us consider the role of hotels and hotel chains. I can recall the 1970s and 1980s in France when a promising young chef who had finished his apprenticeships at two and three-star restaurants would open a small, middle-range restaurant that would garner a 15/20 or 16/20 right away from Gault-Millau. With the severe and long recession in France in the 1990s, this way of entering restaurant proprietorship became increasingly rare. Instead, hotels saw the opportunity, if not the need, to add distinctive dining to their properties, with the result that young, talented chefs would begin their "solo" careers in hotels. In the context of the restaurateur, the faceless corporate entity of a hotel takes over the that role. In essence there is no restaurateur in the classic sense, only manager types who oversee dining rooms. In what could be another new, seperate thread topic, do you think hotels are a Godsend to fine dining or do they come at a cost? I also wonder about so-called luxury chain restaurants such as Fours Seasons or the Ritz-Carlton where a kind of chain-wide formula and standards are laid across a whole slew of hotel restaurants.

As a run-up to Danny Meyer's Q&A, I think it would be interesting to have a discussion here of his profession: the restaurateur. This topic has had little airing on eGullet. The 20th century has seen famous restaurateurs who created memorable dining experiences even though they themselves were not great professional cooks. Among those who come to mind are: César Ritz, who engaged Auguste Escoffier as his chef Claude Terrail, whose restaurant La Tour d'Argent was accorded three Guide Michelin stars from 1951 until 1996 with a succession of essentially anonymous chefs Jean-Claude Vrinat, owner of Taillevent, which has had three stars since 1973 despite changing chefs several times Raymond Jamin whose last three chefs were Gerard Besson, Daniel Bouche (who went to La Tour d'Argent and is now at Les Ambassadeurs) and Joel Robuchon who acquired the restaurant In New York, figures such as Roger Chauveron (Café Chauveron), Paul Kovi and Tom Marrgittai of The Four Seasons, Joe Baum, and, in the present, Sirio Maccioni, Drew Nieporent and Danny Meyer stand out. And in the UK, Sir Terence Conran, the London design legend. Until recently, the roles of the restaurateur and chef were almost always more markedly different. The restaurateur brought taste and connoisseurship to bear as he selected chefs, staffed the service arm of his restaurant, stocked the wine cellar and oversaw the restaurant's decor and accoutrements, not to mention its economic management. When chefs doubled as restaurateurs, their managerial responsibilities were often handed to a spouse, manager, or sibling. Today, while more chefs are taking on restaurateur responsibilities by developing and owning multiple restaurants, a great many established and new restaurants are still owned and managed by those who are not cuisiniers. Among the questions that this discussion seeks to address: Can a great restaurateur be as crucial to a great restaurant as a chef? Can a restaurateur overcome the shortcomings or lack of imagination of his chef with good atmosphere, selection of wines; and polished and friendly service? Is it possible to have a meal of the highest quality at a restaurant that is not chef-owned? Do you hesitate to choose a top-range restaurant if it is not chef-owned or if the chef owns a string of restaurants and is not likely to be in attendance? Are there specific restaurateurs, masters of their profession, who did something to provide you a dining experience you have never forgotten or have encouraged you to make his restaurant "your restaurant"? What signs do you use to tell an accomplished restaurateur from a poor or mediocre one?

On my last travels in Europe, I got seriously burned by two concierges for quick lunch recommendations. The worst was provided by the concierge staff at the Meurice where my wife's cousin was staying. They recommended a little, near-by restaurant above a chocolate shop. My wife apparently was made sick by some parsley that was part of an over-all lousy meal. She became nauseous soon after and was unable to touch her food at a three-star restaurant that evening; a restaurant she had been dying to return to after two terrific meals there this summer. The second bum steer came from a concierge at the Grand Hotel et de Milan who said we should go to a cafe a few doors down. There the food was steam table and worse. How much, then, do concierges really know about food and restaurants, why do they get away with telling people to go to such obviously bad establishments, and do you think my wife's cousin should have tgaken my advice and related the story to a manager of the Meurice?

What do you consider a nice gratuity for doing the normal services for a guest staying three or four nights; i.e. a handful of lunch and dinner reservatons (one or two desireable ones included); phoning several shops to ask questions; giving directions a couple of times of day, phoning for a cab four or five times, and giving a half a dozen miscellaneous suggestions for eating, shopping, drinking, sightseeing,etc.?

I beg to differ, but the Christmas dinner of Escoffier is one I would die for, literally and figurtively. In today's world, however, I have a prediliction dining "a la carte". While it is very easy to turn this thread into a pro or con tasting menu discussion or argument, I will say that often we do not hear the rationale of the chef for presenting or designing a tasting menu. Often, these menus do get out of control and appear like they are made almost randomly. Of course you often hear from the server or from reading the printed menu that the tastng menu is based on the "market" or what is fresh that day. This can fly in the face of what the chef or the well-coached server might say about mixing various taste or palate components in order to offer a well-conceived menu. Unfortunately, in my opinion, a menu often tips the way the thread starter mentions (over the edge of the comfort zone) when it is used to lavish a regular customer or a friend of the chef or restaurant owner. This is nice when it happens to you and not so nice when you watch someone else being lavished. All things considered, I think everyone in a restaurant should be treated equally. In general, I believe that a tasting menu tips over the edge when a mediocre chef makes you cry "uncle" after just a few courses because you know that you are simply dining to sate your appetite. The better the chef, the more he can comfortably get away with as far as the number of dishes and the quantity of food he provides in his tasting menu.

NickN proposed and wrote this topic: When the Symposium first made its appearance with a request for topics, my first thought was, "Is Escoffier relevant today? What remains of his work that influences chefs today?" It was only a few years ago when reading Michael Ruhlman’s, "The Making of a Chef", that I became aware of Escoffier. It was also though reading Making of a Chef that my cooking horizons really began to expand and soon I bought a copy of "The Professional Chef" from the CIA. Here again I came across Escoffier; as the Pro Chef noted, "Escoffier’s influence on the food service industry cannot be overemphasized." As well as, "Ferdinand Point took Escoffier’s message of simplification even further and laid the groundwork for the next upheaval in restaurant cooking styles."…… And from Point’s work, other chefs were influenced such as Bocuse, Chapel, Bise, and Jean and Pierre Troisgros. The work of the two Troisgros (as well as their father) became the launching pad for Judy Rodgers ("The Zuni Café Cookbook") when she arrived in their kitchen at the age of sixteen. So, I’m throwing out the questions - Is Escoffier relevant today? What remains of his work that influences chefs today? And will add, do you think his work influences your own cooking? For a great biography on Escoffier click here. Footnote: Let your mind follow the other trails that this might suggest – such as the influence of the CIA or French cooking in general. As I’ve written this, all sorts of things have come to mind and I can see all kinds of possibilities. Nick --------------------

As much as we can ask questions to determine if a fish is farmed or wild, frozen or fresh or “fresh frozen”; a chicken farmed or free-range; or a sorbet made industrially or on the premises, do we still get to find out what I have come to call “the provenance of food”? As every buyer of art and antiques knows, good provenance adds value. In food it is similar. Yet, it seems that we have to take on good faith that a “day boat” piece of seafood is from the boat that day and hasn’t been compromised on the boat or at the fishery, while in transit or at the wholesale market. In the area of fruits, vegetables, herbs and spices, the going gets rougher. The packaging or the waiter can tell us the origin, but the chance of finding out what happened to the specimen in question becomes more problematic. In many cases we can never find out, and it may not always matter; but when somehow is seeking access to the entire truth, it is likely instead to be a matter of “caveat emptor”. How does the origin of edibles affect your enjoyment of them? What do you avoid because you don't know or like where it comes from, where it has been, or how it has been handled? What do you look for, and what questions do you ask to help you when buying food or ordering in a restaurant? How forthcoming do you think the produce and restaurant world is, in general? How could disclosure and descriptions regarding the provenance of food best be improved in stores and restaurants?

Posted: Nov 3 2002, 11:45 PM Special Contributor Group: Special Guests Posts: 919 Member No.: 428 Joined: 10-September 01 Sng, thanks for the wonderful report. It's a coincidence of sorts what you say about median restaurants as just a few days ago I e-mailed Bux about what I call my "unwashed middle theory"; i.e. that for the most successful dining you patronize the small number of highly interesting chefs and those restaurants that prepare timeless food well while avoiding the great unwashed middle. I said to Bux that Paris was an ideal city to practice this. Bux went to Le Lion d'Or. We went a few times in the 1980s. I'm glad it is still good. Thanks for the tip about Chateau Gilly. I never went there. Isn't it the place where you turn to go to Saulieu? -------------------- Robert K. Brown

Vivremanger, "Trois Etoiles au Michelin" pretty much discusses only the three-star restaurants. There is a chapter on Le Chapon Fine, but it covers just the period to 1939. Do you want to know what the specialties were in its early days?

Has anyone tried walking from Paris to Lyon for dinner? Vivremanger. The Chapon Fin did have two stars when you were there. From 1939 to 1951, the Guide did not award restaurant stars (except for white ones during the difficult years right after WW II just to indicate that you could get a decent meal). The Guide was also not published from 1940-1945. In1951, Michelin believed it was now possible to find great dining again and awarded three stars to seven restaurants. Le Chapon Fin received two stars in 1951 and kept them until 1957. It closed in 1960 and reopened at some point later, but far from its former glory. It was acquired in 1985 by Francis Garcia who has gotten back one of the stars.

Adria said on the Gourmet TV program I mentioned in the El Bulli cookbook thread that he studied economics. I also said that he keeps very mysterious about his early or formative years. He may be the biggest exception that proves the rule about Johnny-Come-Latelys to cooking. I also would make a point that is a variation of what Lord Michael Lewis wrote above: that beside marketing, a higher education might make a chef a better restaurateur in terms of insight into and understanding of his clientele. Now from reading the biographical thumbnail of Adria that Lizziee provides above, there are discrepancies in that. I believe Adria is in his early-mid forties, not 40. I also recall that said on Gourmet TV that he washed dishes in Majorca, not in a town that is on the sea, but south of Barcelona. Perhaps he studied economics in high school. He also told the Esquire writer that he had no memory of his early years.

Charles, that was a great post. It's quite a hike from Nice Port to La Bonne Auberge. I like stories such as yours.