robert brown

Jaybee, you beat me to the punch. The big oyster place in Nice, Le Turin, gets deliveries two days a week. Thus I try to eat there in the evening of a delivery day (Tuesdays and Saturdays in this case). So I wonder, regardless of the restaurant, if it would behoove you to call and ask when they get their oyster deliveries.

Steve. Vrinat judged a 2000 Niellon Chevalier-Montrachet ready to drink (or drinkable)? How was It? Lxt. Where is Maxence?

Steve P, what's driving these guys is greed for the most part. As I wrote a few days ago, if the French dropped the VAT from 19.5 to 5.5%, the restuarateurs would raise their price 10%. You knock service and VAT from 300 euros and you're down to 200 euros; put back, say, 40 euros for a tip and 16.5 euros for the 8-1/4% sales tax we pay in New York City and you would be at 256.5 euros. Craft's tasting menu would be $100 + 20 + 8.50=128.50. On a level field, a 300 euro Parisian menu is really twice what a $100. New York tasting menu is, given $-euro parity. Maybe the next thing to go at the expensive restaurants is the single-seating seance. While we're at it, how do you find wine-list prices relatively speaking?

Beachfan, I received a report two days ago from two trusted names in French gastronomic travel. They loved L'Auberge de L'Ile more than Leon de Lyon, the latter of which they said had good (but not great) food and lousy service. If it were me, I would go to the former or to Les Loges. Any place that has the Gault-Millau chef of the year makes for a compelling choice.

Steve, Great restaurants (indeed even lesser restaurants) have always had one seating unless a party came in off the street for a late couple of courses and a table was vacant or had been vacated. I think the difference in once being able to survive with no turning tables is the diminished opportunity for chefs to earn money outside of their restaurants. As for comparing veal chops and vegetables, there is always a large premium for the "marginal" difference. The problem these days is that much of what you are paying the difference for, such as service, is debased by falling standards. Lxt and AHR: We could have endless discussion on the concept of "technique versus soul". My quick answer is that we are seeing more of the former to the lack of the latter. I am wondering if it is an by-product of the foodie boom in which the relatively unsophisticated are impressed obvious technique and what appears as novel. I can feel the discussion returning to Adria et al. But I am going to step back and cogitate on this for the time being.

Having recently been to L’Arpege, I can confirm 300 euros a head that was worth every one of them. That the Michelin shows the price that it does is a subject I brought up on the board in July. Meanwhile, Steve's post above is a good overture to something I have been thinking about posting for a while. Here ‘tis: I date the beginning of the decline of eating in France to the spring of 1990, which began a long-lasting recession in Europe (as opposed to a short one in the USA). One way in which this manifested itself was the decrease in personal spending in France, notably in restaurants. The following year I remember the Gault-Millau Guide and magazine began harping on "rapport prix-qualite" and singling out restaurants that were cognizant of this. This recognition at that time mostly took the form of a prix fixe, no-choice lunch menu, thereby casting the dye for what we have today: degustation-driven dining at both lunch and dinner. Although there was a nascent “grande" cuisine or innovative cuisine movements in the Anglo-Saxon part of the world, at the end of the 1980s, people still went to France to indulge themselves in the very special kind of eating that gave common currency to the term “tour gastronomique”. In the relatively short distance between northern Burgundy and Lyon, it was possible to eat in nearly a dozen three-star and would-be three star restaurants after eating in the best restaurants of Paris. In the early ‘90s, however, as the economy recovered in America and Great Britain and continued stagnating in France, these first two countries saw for the first time in their histories a culinary preoccupation and infrastructure (helped along a great deal by migrating Frenchmen looking for an escape from the diminishing opportunities in their native country). Hyped along and helped along by the mass media, the sentiment developed that while it was still pleasant and edifying to go to France to eat, it was not as “de riguer” as it had recently been.. Another factor that people overlook is that the major restaurants had put in an expensive infrastructure designed in part to impress the guidebook inspectors. Having borrowed heavily and taking on heavy maintenance and overhead, possibly relying as well on overnight guests, the decline of business in a difficult economy added to monetary burdens that had to be met with cutbacks in food costs and quality of service. (Steve and Bux mention the travails of Pierre Gagnaire and Marc Veyrat in the mid-90s as two glaring manifestations of some of this). To make a long story short, the economy of France has not experienced a hyper-growth period such as the United States, Great Britain, Ireland and even the Netherlands during the late 1990s. (and let us not forget the Japanese who flooded Paris between 1985 and 1992 and have all since disappeared). While better French restaurants have shared in the periods of the frothy economic periods of the US and Great Britain (and it is not the just numbers of Americans in particular eating in these restaurants, but the disproportionate “splurge mentality” money they spend) it has never been enough to make eating in these restaurants the bacchanal that it used to be, given that both the greed factor and the need for capital to renovate, expand, and start new 1990s-type ventures eats up whatever additional income came in during the late 1990s. Now top French gastronomy is experiencing the quadruple whammy of 9/11, a weaker dollar, a stagnant world economy, and food inflation since the euro. While it is still possible to dine on sublime food ( I agree with Marcus that France is still capable of putting out the highest highs of high gastronomy), every indication is that even the best restaurants are starting to run with half a tank. One indefatigable e-Gullet member and spouse are in the middle of an ambitious “tour gastronomique” and reporting back on a near-daily basis both superb meals and, as the Lander article points out, rank-amateur mistakes in service. In the kitchen, there are, as Steve Klc has pointed out, chefs causing a stir; but among those who are, how many have a controlling interest in where they work and how much do they miss lording over an operation the scale of which their parents’ generation dined in?

Steve, are you saying that farmers were chefs? Are farmer-chefs in the universe of "they" and "the French"? Otherwise when are you talking about? Were the farms state-owned at some time? America used to be overwhelmingly agricultural as was every other country. What a country grew determined its cuisine. I always thought that what we consider French cuisine came mostly from Royalty and nobility except for peasant cuisine. Also, what level of cuisine are you indicating France had an advantage in from what you indicate to be between 1920 and 2000?

Between the Lander article and the wisdom of e-Gullet members, there are several points worth taking the time to comment on. The Lander piece strikes me as an example of dutiful but qualified criticism; in other words he knows that French gastronomy has deteriorated, but for whatever reasons chooses to pussyfoot it by dealing with relatively benign issues, digressing into unrelated or trivial matters, and making statements that are questionable or simply not true. While he states several reasons for the difficult time restaurant owners in France are having, he ignores the utter abandonment of France by Americans afraid to travel, spending deflated dollars, and avoiding the country on principle; and the idiotic naïve remedy of raising prices in the face of falling demand. Citing the turn-around in the French wine industry as an example of inspiration for the restaurant business is irrelevant. The two professions are so differently structured that developments in one are not transferable to the other. Lander cites the culinary brain drain to other countries as an example of French culinary know-how benefiting the world, but fails to state that it is this loss of talent that has largely been responsible for other countries catching up with the French. He then states that the problem is not what is on the plate but how it is served just before mentioning formula menus and trips to the cash and carry and frozen food depots. (Most restaurant owners go to the professionals-only wholesale markets in their area). The 35-hour workweek rule is a point well raised, however. It accounts for the loss of pride dining room personnel used to feel for their restaurant and the egregious mistakes that are being made in the most famous restaurants of France—mistakes I have witnessed and what my fellow gastronomic travelers and some e-gulleteers report on a regular basis. Concerning Lander’s proposal to lower dining VAT from 19.5% to the 5.5% of other enterprises, you can bet that the lion’s share to be gained by the client will end up in the restaurant owner’s pocket in the form of higher prices. Lander then follows on that the price to quality ratio is “invariably impressive”—sometimes yes, sometimes no, but never “invariably”. Last, what is wrong with the waiter reciting the ingredients of a dish? It is when they put the dish down in front of you and walk silently away that I fault them, especially when I am anxious to know what I am about to eat. If that is the shallowness of his argument after 25 years of traipsing around France, he either had blinders on or he is pulling a lot of punches. I don’t think it is being romantic, jaded, and nostalgic to state that gastronomy in France is not what it was, (nor does that mean it is no longer the country most endowed with gastronomic riches.) It should be a premise provable quantitatively (with great time and effort, however) at every socio-economic level of restaurant going by looking at such phenomena as the size of menus; the flexibility in ordering; the number of kitchen and dining room employees; the sources, range and availability of produce; the amount of food on offer; the background and training of kitchen and dining room staff,; how often menus changed; the number of apprentices who went immediately on to open their own ambitious restaurants and stayed in France as opposed to migrating to foreign countries; and the opportunities for chefs to earn outside income that allowed them to cater to their clients with pride and generosity. As for how good the food was, you will just have to believe me.

Marcus, decline is relative; goodness an absolute. Paris and France in general still provide the highest highs. They are just getting harder to find.

Can any of the Brits recall the article on the decline of French gastronomy in an unnamed national newspaper that Lander refers to in his article?

Bux, what do you mean by ....where the revival is being felt the most?" I don't mean to sound like a broken record (these days I guess you say a skipping CD), but declining service is almost the least of it. Lander has always been a yeoman in terms of writing ability, with this piece not really tightly constructed in terms of logical flow. My wife and I were wondering why restaurants, especially more modesf, regional, local,etc. ones, don't offer a wider range of dishes especially when you see books that are chock full of recipes that are highly specific in terms of place. Whether it is tourism, which is the reason for the rap Steve P. gave about lack of diversity in Piemonte restaurants (something I don't completely agree with) when we were driving to the Union Square market recently, or a reluctance to offer uncommon dishes to clients, being able to taste a wider range of dishes would make France a more interesting country to dine in.

I just came across this commentary in this weekend's Financial Times by its restaurant critic Nicholas Lander. It reiterates the disheartenment that I have been posting the last few months, though with a different and less of a broader indictment. (Included is a passing reference to Italy that is also in accord with my feelings.) Regardless, I am more interested in what your reactions are to the article. If you have trouble with the address below, got to FT.com and in the search box (I used the one that appeared after I clicked on the "Culture and Sports" link and then the Jancis Robinson article) type in "Nicholas Lander". I don't know how long the FT will keep the story available for free, so better hurray. http://search.ft.com/search/article.html?i...arch&state=Form

Peter, now I remember that a fellow who runs several agricultural propoerties for an insurance company in Turin told me that Da Dirce in Asti is also part of the kitchen at the San Maurizio. Borgo Antico is the one-star in Barolo. It was closed the two times I tried to eat there. Pinocchio in Borgomanero still held up for us this past April, although the cuisine has a few modern touches to it. We went a long time ago to Al Sorriso and were disappointed. How did you find it? Where do you post from?

I believe that Bocuse was, if not the father, then at least the chef that people identified most with the early days of La Nouvelle Cuisine. The widely-used expression "La Bande a Bocuse" comprised the early so-called modern chefs ca. 1970. Those included were Pierre and Jean Troisgros, Roger Verge, MIchel Guerard, and Alain Chapel, although one may choose to argue that Bocuse, Troisgros brothers, and Verge were the first wave and Chapel and Guerard came along shortly after (maybe with Alain Senderens as well, not to mention a few two-star chefs such as Jacques Maniere, Jean Delavayne, and Claude Peyrot who some considered part of the movement). Giradet was like a Second Futurist; one who made an deep impact after the Nouvelle Cuisine was well-established; a transitional figure between the above and Joel Robuchon. As for the Michelin/Gault-Millau discussion, I am not sure it is really significant there days what the differences are. Many years ago it did because Gault and Millau represented a cause that was a factor in their spotting young chefs with enormous talents that in the end became the next generation of Michelin three-star chefs, sometimes, in individual cases, several years later. It is insighful how Marcus states the difference between the two guides in terms of dishes. I would have thought the differences would have been simply because a different group of raters works for each publication. I think that Michelin is trying to become more lithe in recognizing and rewarding younger chefs through granting the additional star.

Peter, Steve and I both agree that Il Giardino da Felacin is not worth the bother. Although they have a good and deep cellar, there is a hustle factor that turned off me and a reporter from the Financial Times. The food is okay, but the treatment sours it. Trattoria de la Posto is a nice place. We had a very good meal and a so-so one a year apart (2000-2001). La Contea has gone upscale. I would not have recognized from the early 1980s to two years ago. The place has a nice boutique. However, the food is only mezzo-mezzo. Cesare has given me memorable to somewhat less meals, but if you have never been, it’s a must. If they have porcini with peaches, try them. I think it has become a house specialty. Make sure you get a side dish if you order something roasted. They don’t always provide one. Il Viccolo in Alba served us a no-choice lunch a few years ago that was very good, La Belvedere in La Morra is a lively place, kind of big. We were served family style with a few choices of each course offered verbally. We liked it a lot. It’s down-to-earth. Steve and I are off Gener Neuv, although the triffolata of white truffle can be great if the truffles are really good. Don’t get roped in to eating a meal at your hotel. Johnny, the Swiss owner, is not a very good cook. Are you going to be near Cuneo? There are a couple of good places around there. I highly recommend Il Bologna in Rocchetta Tanaro, east of Asti. Giacomo Bologna’s brother owns it. Again the choice is limited; a few choices offered verbally, but the food is delicious and Sig. Bologna is a lively character. Lots of “bonhomie” and good wine from “Braida”. Go for lunch, then Giacomo’s brother will lead you to “Braida” where the Late Giacomo’s son will give you an interesting tour of this large, modern wine-making facility. Then you can buy some Bricco dell’Uccellonne and Ai Sumi. I will poke through my books and see if I forgot anything. Sounds like a great trip which I will be anxious to hear about as there are a few places you are going to that I have yet to visit.

I have plenty of opportunity to dine at L'Oasis, but have never had the motivation. As you must know, Louis Outhier has nothing to do with it any longer. The main problem is that there is simply no buzz about it. If you want to go all out on the Cote d'Azur, I would think you would be better off at La Bastide de St. Antoine (Jacque Chibois in Grasse) or even Villa des Lys in the Majestic in Cannes or La Palme d'Or at the Martinez. I had a very good meal at the Majestic, while Steve P. likes La Palme d'Or a lot, don't you Steve? A lot of people also like La Terrasse at the Hotel Juana in Juan-les-Pins. My wife and I split on it. I enjoyed it very much because they laid a lot of very competent food on you, reminiscent of the old days.; my wife thought it was too much and she felt the staff had an "attitude" (which they did). This was three years ago, however. Roellinger and L'Arnsbourg are about the only two restaurants in France I am anxious to visit for the first time. Let us know how your meals went at the former.

I'm still waiting for a comment on how you can base a culinary philosophy on using the best available ingredients of the day and compose your menus up to 31 days in advance.

Nick, I forgot to ask you if you could eat out more often and write about it.

Peter, we wanted to go to Relais San Maurizio in mid-July under the assumption that it would be open, based on their telling me at the site last fall that the projected opening was this past May. I called the hotel-restaurant owned by the late Guido's daughter-in-law. A man there told me that the San Maurizio was opening July 26. Not wanting to be there during their shake-down period, we did not go. But it is now open. As for Ristorante Guido, the old place in Costigliole d'Asti will operate until December 31. How being spread out in two enterprises will affect the quality is something one can't know without eating at both places. My guess is that Guido's wife will be cooking in one place and son Andrea in the other. You could phone the restaurant and ask Ugo, Andrea's brother, who speaks some English (but better French). I think that the old restaurant will be as good as always. Where are you staying, as there are now a few quite comfortable places, though San Marizio is the fanciest. (Castello in Villa in the upper part of Costigliole is very pleasant and comfortable. Villa Beccarus in Monforte d'Alba is a favorite as well, but about 45 minutes away. However, it is smack in the middle of Barolo country and surrounded by incredible vineyard landscapes).

Mao, my friend who eats at L'Astrance on a regular basis said that Sunday lunch was the "easiest" meal to get a table. I have to tell you, though, that my wife and I do not share the prevailing opinion about the restaurant. While we were delighted to go and certainly enjoyed ourselves, we found L'Astrance to be endowed with most of the attributes that feel are ruining serious dining--snobby attitude (this from part-owner Christophe, the maitre d'hotel/part-owner), bare bones, perfunctory service, no choice of dishes, skimpy wine list, and so many dishes in little portions that you never get to immerse yourself in whatever ones that you really like (and you will like several of them). But it's a place you should go to, if only to experience what the restaurant represents. I also have to admit that as a one-star restaurant, it does have one-star prices (relatively inexpensive) and thus it needs to keep expenses down. But I'm in a very distinct minority on this restaurant. However, I can offer you one piece of concrete advice: don't, if my experience is any indication. order the "menu surprise". For almost 50% more it offered only a couple of additional dishes (and I believe all the others were the same as those on the less-expensive menu) and cheap wine that the restaurant selected.

The last time I dined at Chez Panisse (about 2-1/2 years ago), I noticed that the Cafe offered some modicujm of choice while the main restaurant had its menu worked out for the entire calendar month. Now if Alice Waters is guided by using the best, freshest ingredients available, why does she compose her menus up to 31 days in advance? Not living in the area, I wonder if she make switches if a certain product isn't up to snuff the day she planned to use it. Both times I have been, the menu was as advertised. One meal was the best I ever had in the USA, the second just so-so. Does anyone have any insight or experiences to pass along in this regard?

Palmer's site states that it opens tonight. It would be nice to see posts from early visitors.

No wonder there are no replies. It's called "Kitchen 22". Now does anyone know anything about it? Is there a thread from before?

Friends asked us to dine with them at what they said was a new Charlie Palmer restaurant they thought is named "West 24th". I can't find any references to it. Can anyone provide any information?

Varmint, does your posting name have anything to do with the topic at hand? I like the area around Tourtour (I had a very nice meal a few years ago at Les Chenes Verts which gets 16/20 in the Gault-Millau) up to Moustiers. It's very scenic in a hilly and lush way. La Bastide de Moustiers (Ducasse owns it) is charming and has decent food. It isn't all that expensive. If you want to splurge on a suite, take the second most expensive since the seperate apartment i its own building is kind of bad taste. The food can be quite good, but you have to eat what the kitchen choses. Fayence and the surrounding area is also pretty. It's good for looking at antiques. Le Castellaras is a very pretty retaurant, but dine there at your peril. The place gives off strong vibes of caring more about your money than making you happy. I'm not familiar with the coast, but after seeing it featured on Gourmand TV (France's weak equivalent of The Food Network) I am dying to try a cafe-restaurant in Rayal Canadel sur Mer called Maurin des Maures. It is east of Le Lavandou. In fact, I plan to explore that whole area during my next trip to France. I have been, however, to L'Ile Porquerolles, off the coast of Hyeres. Le Mas du Langoustier is a comfortable hotel that had a splendid kitchen when I was there three years ago.. If Joel Guillet is still in the kitchen, it is worth a stay, but it may still be closed when you are there as it may reopen not until the end of April