Vadouvan

Thanks Todd, by the way you rock brother.

I see.... James was the owner of Meritage. Which even makes my point better. Everyone bitches about wanting better restaurants in Philly, let's start by not trashing them forever over one dinner. I would hope further comments about JAMES restaurant can be offered by those who have actually eaten there.

I thought the debate ended two weeks ago. I would mostly agree with your point Sir James, however the reality of the business is that some restaurants open on shoestring budgets and due to cashflow, they need to open by a certain date and start the revenue flow, clearly...YES they should get thier sheet together first but it is unrealistic and frankly very rare for a restaurant's business plan to budget 2 months of payroll into it's budget to realistically test the food. Even if you were to do that, you have to buy food, pay the people to cook it, serve it for free while paying your rent and utilities, somehow hire waiters who wont be making tips for a month while living on minimum wage to be enthusiastic and "sell" the food. Translation : $75,000 I am not saying you are wrong but your analogy is flawed because it only applies to Starr/Chodorow/national Chains with deep pockets. Holding a mom and pop restaurant in south philly to the same standard is not in the real world a logical extension of the Price of goods Vs customer expectation analogy. I mean no disrespect but you simply cannot attach that expectation in the real world to a small "NON INVESTOR / VC" financed restaurant. I agree restaurants should probably serve simpler food within thier competence when they open but at the same time, people will say "It's boring"/ It isnt an easy business and everyone just needs to chill. Wait a few weeks and let them get thier legs together. Restaurants are a unique process of operations management in which so much can go wrong. It isnt like walking into the Aston shop and picking out a vanquish and expecting it to work, of course it's perfect. It was built by 50 people over 3 months and shipped over in its own container in a styrofoam bubble. Your ultimate point is right but it needs to be tempered by patience. that is the reality of the food business. Cheers edited : to resolve the Collabelli issue......

Hi chris. So here is the deal. If you read my initial post at the start of this thread....... This whole endeavor really started spontaneously and I really had no Idea that it would become so popular. Basically the first few responders came to the olive oil tasting. I in fact did PM you to ask if you were interested. Even on the day of the Olive oil Gig, 4 people cancelled which left a total of 6. In fact we then decided that 6 was a much better number to streamline things without it resorting into a party and no cohesive conversation. At the end of the olive oil tasting, it was decided that the next one would be a Steak tasting and right there on the spot, nobody wanted to give up thier spots. One certainly cannot dis-invite the original people who made the effort. We made two rules..... 1. If you cant make it, you will be replaced. 2. If you dont post your thoughts, you will be 86'ed. The point of the thread is for conclusive conversations about food to inspire everyone, thus all attendees need to discuss thier thoughts. The steak tasting was already pretty much a done deal during the olive oil tasting. My point is this whole endeavor is still pretty disorganized in terms of scheduleing attendance and who attends, I assure you there is no elitism or Clique factor. I am trying to devise a somewhat democratic way to do it but havent reached any conclusions yet. It actually takes way more work than I have time for to assemble any one of this tastings not to mention all the driving around two states to procure the products. So perhaps communication needs to be worked on. Apologies to anyone who feels slighted. We are currently researching a rentable location to do larger tastings for up to 16 people more in the vein of Tria's fermentation school. The fermentation school is limited to wine, beer and cheese and while it is a great endeavor, it is extremely limited in scope regarding specialty consumables and technique/execution of cooking. We want to do things like.... Vinegar and the importance of acidity to cooking. Pork ......Berkshire Vs Farm Vs Generic Salt Varietals........Important distinctions or marketing bullshit. Risotto........Arborio, Carnaroli, Vialone Nano, Baldo, Bomba. Bread........Carangi,Amoroso,Amy, La Brea, Le Bus, Metro,Eli, Blue ribbon,Sarcones...ect ect. So you see there is much more fun stuff coming up besides boring hunks of meat..... The thought has been expressed by someone to initiate discussions with one of the local restaurant schools in the area. Stay tuned. Unfortunately we all have day jobs too........

Perhaps if it isnt too late, ome of that fabulous "Beurre De Charents" from Lescure. The one with the crunchy FDS in it. I just got back to philly and I am off to score some quality grapeseed oil. see ya

Mr Gordon.....how about you make a slight detour on your way to Holland tunnel and pick up a pain levain from Balthazar......

T minus 28hrs. 1.A. Esposito Dry Aged NYStrip 2.Wolfe Neck New York Strip 3.George Wells Choice Dry Aged Strip 4.George Wells (CAB) Dry Aged Strip 5.Peter Luger (Gachot+Gachot) Dry Aged Portehouse. 6.Lobel$$$ Dry Aged Porterhouse 7.Harry Ochs Dry Aged Porterhouse 8.Whole Foods Dry Aged Strip 9.Dibruno Brothers Dry Aged Strip 10.Piccinini Brothers Dry Aged Strip 11.D'artagnan Wagyu New York Strip Formidable competition indeed. For purposes of future discussion (CAB) refers to Certified Angus Beef. More tommorow....

Thanks for the tip Gruzia. Actually I did some research to find out where they get thier meat and we are procuring from as close to source as possible.

Funny, this hardly rises to the level of a moral dilemna. Cooking of food and Morality are mutually exclusive for me. I just find all the theatrics that at the end of the day dont make food any better than it ever was interesting. Everyone seems to want to equate "progress" with "moving foward"............. I guess the question for me is ... Does printing sushi on edible paper with edible ink move japanese food foward.

No need for self flattery, I am not speaking for anyone, my use of the word "we" only extends to those who agree with my statements.

Dave..... There is this banging steak frites I eat once a year at an undisclosed location in gay pahreee, we asked the chef what the secret was to the tasty crust and he specified a ratio (I swore I would never tell) of Pondicherry black peppercorns and toasted high grade coriander, in snoops word it is indeed the shizzy. There is this Frenchie dude Olivier wo has a company that imports them among other goodies. By the way Tourondel (the macdonalds of fine dining) has a similarly delicious steak using the same pepper in NYC. BLT Steak and BLT PRime. I hear Laurent the king of steaks plans on a world wide expansion... BLT Falafel in Haifa BLT Sushi in Kyoto BLThai in Phu-ket......... BLT Jerk in Ocho-rios BLTruffles in Alba BLTartetatin in Place Vendome BLTomatos in San marzano BLThyme in the herb counter in your supermaket BLTrump at that new condo in Tribeca

Trick question: There are two answers. The obvious one is..............GNUDI. The old school eyetalian one (leave it to the brilliant italophile Professor Fentoni ).........is MALFATTI. On the subject of gnudi Andrew.....everyone in NY raves about the ones at the spotted pig and they are just soooooo bad, it's like baby food. Since we know Philadining is the king of food porn, perhaps we can convince him to shoot some Gnudi pics this time around.....

Today's Steak Tasting Quiz...... What do you get when you mix my two favourite things to eat ? My two favourite things to eat are Gnocchi and Creamed Spinach. The answer is *one* word. Toodle oo.....

Because the supermarkets dont dry age porterhouses. Besides more than half of a porterhouse is a New York Strip......kabish ? We'll eat the other part for dessert......

Tasting #2. Where is the beef. Contenders are as follows. 1. Wegmans Dry Aged Strip 2. Whole Foods (and a whole lot of politics and Bullshit) Dry Aged Strip 3. Harry Ochs Dry Aged Strip or Porterhouse. 4. Peter Lugers Dry Aged Porterhouse 5. Lobels Dry Aged Porterhouse 6. Wolfe Neck Dry Aged Strip 7. D'artagnan Wagyu Bone-in Strip 8. George Wells Dry Aged Strip 9. Espositos Dry Aged Strip There were other suggestions but they were all eliminated for issues such as "wet-aging" and places like D'angelos that "Dry-age" in thie walk in refrigerators ...for two reasons. Other products in the refrigerator and no humidity control. Steaks will be cooked old-school parisian style. No broiling rubbish French Black Steel Pans. Halen-Mon Sea Salt Pondicherry Black Peppercorns after tasting them naked. Any other thoughts Gordon ?

Biggie the pesto was also made with it. Plus it was drizzled on before and after grilling.....

To Echo and add to Mr Gordon's comments..... An expanded vocabulary is indeed requisite to describe the oils. Olio Verde was perfect for the charcoal toasted bread, it had a smoky finish to be. Important to note that the Pesto was also made with it. Per Me with Risotto Manzanilla with the Lentil stew due to terroir. Mozzarella and olio verde was indeed transcedental. Here is the price breakdown from Dibruno brothers. 1.Dibruno Frutatto 19.99/750ml 2.Marques De Valdueza 24.99/500ml 3.Le Moulins Mahjoub 12.99/370ml 4.Novello / Marc Vetri 32.99/750ml 5.Carm 14.99/500ml 6.Yellingbo 24.99/500ml 7.Frantoia 17.99/500ml 8.Aguibal Manzanilla 16.99/500ml 9.Aguibal Arbequina 16.99/500ml 10.Becchina Olio Verde 39.99/500ml 11.Armando Manni Per Me 26.00/100ml 12.Armando Manni Per Me Figlio 26.00/100ml 13.Planeta.....................? I was exposed to Planeta as the house Olive oil at a restaurant in london called Locanda Locatelli. To those who dont know, Giorgio Locatelli is to London what Batali is to NY except Locatelli cooks better food. http://www.locandalocatelli.com/ Anyway Planeta is the best oil of the lot for Italian style rustic breads, it's flavor combined with the burnt flour is amazing. Olio verde has a similar effect. The twin manni's are subtle finishing oils and should never contact hot pans under any circumstances. All other oils are at Dibruno. We intend to do another tasting of oils in the future with a broader spectrum of flavor. Manni can be gotten at .. Manni.biz The most expensive by far but it is also overpackaged and I strongly suspect that affects at least 20% of the price. *DO NOT* buy the Manni Oil at whole foods, it's overpriced garbage Next "WHERE IS THE BEEF"

63.8 C Size of egg is irrelevant, pullet, large, extra large. Use Large eggs however. PICTURE DEMO...... http://forums.egullet.org/index.php?showtopic=8611&st=420

We arent judging the outcome of ICA, we are expressing our distaste for the gimmickery. If you believe it's easier or better to caramelize chips with a laser then I have a bridge to sell you in Brooklyn. The japanese have made nori for hundreds of years, if printing sushi rolls is the future of cooking, then it's a sad day.

Katie....Regarding the "risotto of nothing" The prose was just to highlight flavor delivery. Risotto was made with super high quality stock (eberly and Bluefoot bones), only ingredients were parmesan cheese, salt, shallot. Just Plain rice. At the end just before serving, we folded in freeze dried "petit pois" and then drizzled olive oil. Strangely, the freeze dried peas retained "encapsulated flavor" as in the risotto did not taste like peas but every now and then you would get an explosive pea flavor. Worked very well for me with Manni PMF. Mozzarella Ice Cream with Olio Verde was stunning.

Bill I am certain they are one and the same. To add to Biggie's comments : Though CSV isnt the cooking method of choice that the average person will end up using, it was the best to quantify how the birds tasted. Bluefoot definitely had much more complexity, even the crispy skin was much more savory. CSV left them both juicy but Eberly exudes more juice, bluefoot was perfect but in unskilled hands, the possibility of drying it out greatly exists in roasting. I would say it is almost imperative to roast the bluefoot ... Convection oven Reflective roasting pan with water under the rack like the ones at Ikea. Straight up 400F till done without any silly temp adjustments. BILL Eberly wasnt *inferior*, bluefoot was just way better. Remember Eberly is still better that Bell/Evans, Whole foods and certainly Purdue Imho. I am still formulating my comments about the oil. I would say the evening's revelation by far was the charcoal grilled bread... We had seconds ...

Olive oil tasting seemed to be fun if not completely scientific. Thanks to all who actually replied and showed up last night. Phil A. will be posting the pics and further comments by other attendees. We just randomly chose 13 oils that we had access to, we all decided that a more focused tasting of 6 to 8 oils would be more coincise. Oils were as follows. 1.Dibruno Frutatto 2.Marques De Valdueza 3.Le Moulins Mahjoub 4.Novello / Marc Vetri 5.Carm 6.Yellingbo 7.Frantoia 8.Aguibal Manzanilla 9.Aguibal Arbequina 10.Becchina Olio Verde 11.Armando Manni Per Me 12.Armando Manni Per Me Figlio 13.Planeta Clearly there are some great oils out there we wanted to gather but they are way more expensive. Iwould like to see Geraci, Nunez De Prado and Laudemio in the next tasting. Tasting was structured as Smell/Aroma Color Flavor Heat sensitivity Affinity with food. I decided to go with the Amplifier, It pushes aroma's further foward than any other glass and has the best functional swirl. We used plastic inert 2 oz crytal clear cups. Philadinings new flourescent rig highlighted the room perfectly. Using a standard graduted flask, we heated up the oil with a hot air gun, temp was monitored with infra-red thermometer. Basically compared samples of the same oils with a 20 to 30 degree difference. Makes a big difference. More comments about this when the "Risotto of Nothing" is discussed. We decided to see the impact of Olive oil on various types of food and assembled a variety of small tastes to see the contribution of olive oil at the end. All dishes had olive oil added to the plate at the end. One could then taste the dish before and after the addition of oil. The dishes were as follows. Onaga Ceviche. Tomato-Tarragon Sorbet. Fennel. Mint. Cilantro. Aji Panca. Grilled Pane Rustica. Bincho-Tan Charcoal. Pesto Warm Burratta. Red Orach. Sea Salt. Black Pepper Risotto of Nothing. Parmesan. Lentil Stew. Chick Pea. Iberico Chorizo, Iberico Salsichon, Finochiona, Piquillo. Esplette. Benton Bacon. Mozzarella Ice Cream. Black Olive Sugar. Comments will follow after Phil's Pics. While the stoves were hot, we figure we would take a stab at the chicken issue. We cooked a bluefoot and Eberly Chicken exactly the same way and did a side by side comparison. Everyone immediately picked the bluefoot within 3 bites. Chickens were both : Breast Meat Only. 3 Grams of Maldon Salt each. CSV with 2oz Olive Oil 58C 2 Hrs. Seared Black Steel Pan/ Grapeseed oil. Again, more commentary from attendees and Phil. This was fun.

No sweat dave. Off to some "aggro" snowboarding this weekend.......

Interesting, Far as I know This is a "discussion forum" not a food blog. Foobooz is a "guide". Apples and Oranges. That being said, people disagree with posts all the time and it leads to clarification and discussion. It's funny that all the people who condemn E gullet for various reasons keep coming back to read it. Simply disagreeing does not mean We harbor any malice. Apologies if the statement was taken out of context.

Perhaps a bit harsh David but I have found that uniformly 98% of the dining public dont quite understand the point of "Dashi" and on the larger question of Japanese influenced food, it's the least understood of the Asian cuisines depite the fact that most seem to think sushi and teriyaki constitute the bulk of knowledge. My point is this, the " bull in a china shop" use of soy/wasabi/ginger/nouc mam axis of evil in the pan asian restaurants in the realm of China Grill, Buddakan,Tao,Bhudda Bar et-al forms the basic frame of reference for that comment. The Unagi Glaze at snackbar is the same one at most of these places so to me the issue of flavor profile seems suspect. I would conclude in this case that Philafoodie just didnt get those dishes which is perfectly fine as he is entitled to an opinion but it also reveals to me that he has no basis for that *factual technical* dissection. Americans complain that the financiers at Pierre Herme's place are dry. It just isnt a cake that a lot of people get because it so not a muffin but folks expect cakey texture.