Vadouvan

Yannii, you can disagree and it's OK to disagree, the first amendment allows that. I just ate at oceannaire, while it was no striped bass or kinkead's, it was not bad food,certainly not superexciting but i would go back if I was in the area and it is certainly a hell of a lot better than Washington Square in terms of meeting it's ambition. I am not defending chains, I am noting that a lot of generalisations that are not accurate are being made. The biggest problem with the zealots of buy fresh buy local dont ever eat at chains is that they make sweeping broad generalisations that border on hypocrisy. That diminishes the argument. It's the same logic as the weapons of mass distruction theory that was sold to justify the Iraq war. Just the places you mention, Ansill, Marigold, Snackbar, I can guarantee you 75% of all thier ingredients are not locally produced or grown. They are still mostly excellent places to eat. Far as I know ESCOLAR isnt a local fish and in comes into America frozen solid but it becomes socially responsible when you serve it a Marigold with a tasty sauce ? DOVER SOLE at Radicchio which isnt Dover Sole, its grey sole and it is also frozen. Oceannaire at least has a good shellfish program. You are confusing Quality with creativity. Relatively the same people deliver food to most restaurants period. I have sat in front of Rouge watched a delivery person take stuff into Devon and come right next door to rouge. Re: Smoked Joint. It's certainly ok to defend your friends but your assertion that they went out of business because a crappy chain barbecue restaurant that uses liquid smoke and is located in the middle of a stripmall on delaware avenue put them out of business may be worse than my reasons. You shouldnt take anything on the internet seriously. These are just spirited discussions.

Yannii, you can disagree and it's OK to disagree, the first amendment allows that. I just ate at oceannaire, while it was no striped bass or kinkead's, it was not bad food,certainly not superexciting but i would go back if I was in the area and it is certainly a hell of a lot better than Washington Square in terms of meeting it's ambition. I am not defending chains, I am noting that a lot of generalisations that are not accurate are being made. The biggest problem with the zealots of buy fresh buy local dont ever eat at chains is that they make sweeping broad generalisations that border on hypocrisy. That diminishes the argument. It's the same logic as the weapons of mass distruction theory that was sold to justify the Iraq war. Just the places you mention, Ansill, Marigold, Snackbar, I can guarantee you 75% of all thier ingredients are not locally produced or grown. They are still mostly excellent places to eat. Far as I know ESCOLAR isnt a local fish and in comes into America frozen solid but it becomes socially responsible when you serve it a Marigold with a tasty sauce ? DOVER SOLE at Radicchio which isnt Dover Sole, its grey sole and it is also frozen. Oceannaire at least has a good shellfish program. You are confusing Quality with creativity. Relatively the same people deliver food to most restaurants period. I have sat in front of Rouge watched a delivery person take stuff into Devon and come right next door to rouge. Re: Smoked Joint. It's certainly ok to defend your friends but your assertion that they went out of business because a crappy chain barbecue restaurant that uses liquid smoke and is located in the middle of a stripmall on delaware avenue put them out of business may be worse than my reasons.

First of all, the smoked joint closed because of ineptness, inconsistency, a bad business plan and mediocre food not because of famous daves. Chains dont have lower quality food, what they have is lower culinary ambition due to standardisation. There are lots of mediocre Italian Byo's in center city for example that people troop to like lemmings and swear that the food is as good as thier great grandmother used to make in Apulia. I am not a defender of chains but all the above points apply to all restaurants except the few that are chef driven and have some sense of social responsibility. The issue of siphoning profits away from the locality also isnt an issue because of the city wage tax, business priviledge tax and other miscellaneous philadelphia F.U. taxes. They also contribute a ton of rental revenue to local landlords and this is how ther hurt the dining scene the most. Most property owners would rather rent to an established chain with deep credit worthiness and thus all real estate gets priced out of the realm of all but the deepest pockets. What I personally hate most about chains is the thinly veiled second tier diversification games they play by opening bullsh*t restaurant concepts like ROYS (outback steakhouse) or DEVON (Houlihahns) ect ect......

Alan Yau I believe also owns Hakkasan and Yauatcha in London which I both have been to several times. Unless he plans to pull a new rabbit out of his hat, I dont see anything to rave about.You can talk it up and dress the room up as much as you want, it's still overpriced chinese food that isnt anywhere close to what you can get in the best of chinatown.

No way. Definitely not.

The problem with places like susanna foo and le colonial was that you could always go to chinatown to get much better food cheaper. Sure it isnt "chinese food" per se but it ends up simply being dressed up to the detriment of flavor and authenticity such that the restaurant's perception of added value holds no added value for me, it's just overpriced. Much the same with restaurants in that ilk like China grill, Bhudda bar, Buddakan, Hakkasan.

Valentino on the square.....

What kind of food Matt ?

Anyone been ?

Very excited about Vetri opening a "casual" place. Since all the BYOB's serve the same food, it would be nice to have a place like Lupa in Philadelphia. Thus far mid priced Non BYO Italians have been boring (D'angelos,Panorama) or disasters (Angelina, Valentino)....... Mark we are counting on you.........

What is the word on Daniel Stern's new place in the office building that dresses up as the phillyborgata at night ? Good addition to West philly food scene. Anyone ?

No you dont Diann..... Did we not discuss your interest in a Pork belly creme brulee a few days ago ?

Nice work alex, very nice indeed.

$150 for chinese food seems a tad steep no ?

Eater is full of gossip and conjecture and frankly represents everything wrong with food journalism. I might as well subscribe to the National Enquirer. Can we let the place open first before spelling it's doom ?

Like the gizzards and stuff ? Used to enrich the jus through liason.

Sandwiches next day...always.

I am not sure we got an accurate impression of what the lunch portion sizes were. I am not complaining but the portion sizes we had are in no way consistent with a $55 lunch price fixe. Risdeveau was bigger than a golf ball in addition to the bordering on copious addition of truffle. Turbot was a standard 7 to 8 oz portion...and turbot is expensive. Typically 5 to 6oz fish portions are $35 entrees in manhattan. I have had lame lamb dishes that werent anywhere that big at Daniel for over $40. Portion sizes were not small. I would consider it a 3 course a la carte size as opposed to a 3 course tasting menu size. As for the richness.....Hmmmmm, here is where it gets dicey. It would be such poor form to criticise the food when they arent even open and they just fed you silly to the tune of several $$$$ for free.. However.....in my best evasive Clintonian response.... I think what Murkury and I meant when we said "nothing new" is that none of the sauces we had were a departure from the classic stock/Demiglace/Meat jus route. It would have been nice to see some lighter non stock based infusions of vegetable juices and such. Sweetbreads were such the shizzy, they negated any sauce formulation issues. The sauce was the achilles heel of the turbot dish. Fish was excellent, perfectly cooked but I find that few people make red wine sauces properly and unless you add 2 tablespoons of sugar to any red wine sauce, it gets too acrid. Even a lighter Bordelaise or Merchand de vin would be much preferable to civet, I usually expect civet with game....

Funny You should ask Bill..... I have actually decided to completely deconstruct a turkey this year. Really just out of boredom. Turkey 2 Ways. Involtini with the breast and sage, rolled like a torchon and cooked SV. Escabeche the legs with tons of garlic and pimenton dulce. Orange and Miso Glazed Sweet potatoes Cranberry "Caviar" with calcium lactate and Sodium alginate. Turkey jus with porcinis and rainwater madiera. Puree of Marron. Got a Rebel XT now so expect good pics.

Anyone foolish enough to open a restaurant in a hotel in new York City *will* have union issues. It is always a detente relationship and frankly a buzzkill for independent restaurants. I am sure Ramsay may prevail in that sense since I assume the name of the hotel changed from Rhiga Royal to The London....isnt that the case ?

um....isnt there a nobu thread ? Why are we talking about nobu on the ramsay thread ?

I have to say I agree, funny I came away from PerSe with the same impression, I would say the inevitable comparison, service was on par with PerSe and on point. Thanks Murkury. i owe you big time. Cheers

I woke up this morning to a text message asking me to show up for lunch at GR at 1.45pm. Clearly, I thought it was a joke and called the messenger who in fact confirmed that was indeed the case. Wear a jacket he stressed. The restaurant is in the midst of ironing out the finer details of it's operations, sort of a complimentary friends and family lunch. 1. The Room. Clearly cost is not exactly an issue, you enter into a less formal dining room with nice wooden top tables that look like Oak or Wenge, lovely light fixture above the bar. Casual but smart, reminiscent of Maze/Grosvenor Square. This leads into the more formal white tableclothed, better seats, quieter, carpeted dining room. From a design standpoint, it's elegant but just a tad bit overdone for my tastes. It isnt gaudy, just certain feng shui-ish design elements I dont like...such as too many mirrors and a double recessed cove ceiling. The chairs are quite clever and possibly the best chairs I have sat in in any restaurant. 2. Service . These folks are quite serious and focused on delivering the goods. Everyone was pleasant and communicative without being "affected". There was good waiter knowledge of wines and ingredients. It seems the entire front house staff is exactly the same height. Sommelier makes great recomendations to match the food. First restaurant I have seen in a very long time where the principal front house staff and waiters are wearing suits/clothing that actually seems tailored to fit properly. Guys had on darker suits, double vented, narrow in the british style of Aquascutum or Oswald Boateng. Wine service was flawless including a perfect removal of the foil cap and replacing it after decanting the wine so it made a neater presentation of the bottle. China/Wineglass were of excellent quality, Bernadaud, J L Coquet, Royal daulton. 3. Food. Amuse Bouche of.. Veloute of Butternut Squash, Sauteed Girolles, Parmesan, Truffle Oil Altogether a delicious soup with tasty dice of squash. Not too creamy. Girolles and Chanterelles are prettty much the same. Nothing ground breaking but perfectly executed. Courses #1 Langoustine Tails, Maple Chicken wings,Cauliflower Cream, Green Apple Roasted Sweetbreads, Warm artichoke, Cepes, Perigord Truffle Sweetbreads rocked, unmitigated wow, as did the little squared off maple chiken wing half of the Langoustine dish. I am allergic to shellfish but dining partner loved it. Courses #2. Turbot Poached in st Emilion, Pomme Puree, Braised Salsifis, baby Leeks, Civet sauce. Me... not a fan of fish in red wine sauces, even Bouluds potato bass thing. Felt the wine reduction overwhelmed the delicacy of the extremely fresh fish Cannon of Lamb with Shoulder confit, Candied Onions,Artichokes and marjoram Jus. Lamb dish again while not the most creative out there was stunning in flavor. Yummy stuff. Desserts Slow Baked Quince, Creme Catalan,Acacia Honey. Bitter Chocolate Tower, Coffee Granita, Ginger IC. A cheese cart in the dining room. At the end of the day, would I go back and actually pay for it, absolutely. This will certainly strive to be among the top of the food chain in NYC. As it stands, I predict a solid NYTimes 3 star in the formal room. Edited to add: Perhaps 4 stars based on Frankie "Flowers" Bruni's definition of creativity and ambition. Hell on second thoughts, if Del posto can get 3 stars...why not.

Not to turn this into a reservation thread, I will offer this one last commentary. I would assume since they have been open for what...5 days, they *obviously* havent worked this out yet. My personal opinion, too much of the public hold tiny restaurants to absurd standards. Looking back at the same space when it was SALT, Salt took reservations and was pretty good about timing it's tables, some people on occasion waited by the bar and it was a bit hectic but it worked out for the most part. The sense i get from Johnny "rico suave" makar is he wants it to be a chill neighborhood spot, just come in and eat. No need to start building up any acrimony just yet if at all, i feel like everyone in philly complains about how there need to be more exciting restaurants but what is going to make philly's food scene more exciting is small chef driven restaurants and we need to stop finding the negatives and let them fly before we whip out the shoulder launched ground to air missiles. You want to have a reservationist kiss your behind in the executive lounge ? There are lots of huge soul-less restaurants that do that already. On to the food, anyone have part 2 of snackbar's menu yet ?

I use Bernadaud, Rosenthal and Reynaud China, its all at MC Fina. I dont know if anyone sells online. Rosenthal is german and based in NJ. I order the Reynaud from France, the prices they charge at MC Fina, they must be smoking pot. Neiman marcus and JE Caldwell also carry that stuff.