Vadouvan

Interesting, by daily flights , the oils change every day ? That statement certainly helps to develop the idea. I am proceeding from actual oil tasting to 3 dishes of which olive oil is an actual pivotal component. I feel like any dish that falls into that category should have no more than 3 components max. Thoughts anyone ? Has anyone ever had an "olive risotto". I am thinking standard risotto with lucques or arbequina, parmesan and doused with green spicy olive oil tableside.

The new Pomme Vert Lambic is like the Appletini of beers...... Sorbet is way too cold, even if it was just ice, the cold kills your taste perception. Room temp seltzer water it is.

Giovanni seems to like regular wineglasses but I disagree about the apples. http://www.justhungry.com/2006/10/an_educa..._olive_oil.html Interestingly apples chased with seltzer water seems to work very well but apples alone, no bueno. Granny smith by the way.

Here is some pre-tasting reading though this scoring system is super subjective. I plan on a much simpler, fun exercise. http://www.aromadictionary.com/oliveoiltasting.html By the way, after eating apples in between tasting, I continue to taste apples, I am not sure if they are the best palate cleansers. So far room temp seltzer water seems to work best....

Judy I never profess to be an authority on anything so please supply any thoughts you have. I have been to oil tasting in Italy while on vacations in the past. Everyone seems to have a slight variation. The most effective for my palate in trems of ingestion have been similar to wine tastings (sucking sound), but people do taste differently. Again I have tasted bad olive oil like grades of corked or materized wine. Again share your thoughts please...... John how are you, You are the man in NY, it's your gig, everyone I know or cook with in NY is super passionate about thier oils, it would be preaching to the Choir..... Andrew it will be all on e-gullet if I can get Phila-D to bring his Camera.

Good write up for the Snackbarons in Feb Philly mag......

Not to be a scrooge but what does all this Ivy League chat have to do with Philadelphia food

Who are you working for, Saveur, Gourmet, Fand W, Tand L or Bon Apetit ?

Phungi great point. I think the best thing to come out of this thread is more activity on the board, lately the E-gullet PA board has been like watching a game of Bocce Ball at Shady Pines Retirement home... Also the Dagordon/Sandy Smith smackdown.....

The guy "Jim Burke" is definitely a good chef, he worked with Mark Vetri, he was the chef at Angelina when it was good, I remember a solid gnocchi dish I had there..... The Gnocchi wasnt solid, the whole dish was solid. Gnocchi were quite sublime and tender. You know what I mean.....

Just about as long as it takes to get "Down the Shore" Can you believe the grammar of TV repoters here.......

You know I love you Charlie..... Seriously I just think it's incredibly pointless to leave Philly for New York, be able to afford Morimoto and not eat at Yasuda.

It wont, the only thing worse than being talked about is NOT being talked about.

You will be suprised how much people give away stuff... It's all in the way you ask.... I already have a good lead on the chicken one through D'artagnan.

With all due respects, those places dont represent Philly food, it's great that they are praised but the menu's arent even the same as the philly restaurants. NY mag is easily swooned by the imposing interiors of 10 million dollar restaurants. It has nothing to do with the food. Edited to add : I am referring to Morimoto, buddakan. I think we have good restaurants and we should not give a sheet what Ny mag says.

It's a bit trickier than I thought Biggie. In just my preliminary goofing around I have decided there should be no bread involved. Currently I am trying to see if high quality sterile disposable pipettes affect the flavor of olive oil. That may streamline the process. Also I am looking for a vessel that communicates the aroma well. I think I just found the perfect thing. This is going to be fun.

I am inclined to agree with you on that Holly but that is exactly what Frank Bruni's first look/Blog in the New York Times does quite often under the guise of "initial impressions". Edited to add: Specifically regarding GILT 50th/Madison for example.

So I was thinking people, while I am all about free speech on E-gullet, I feel some of these discussions are exceeding thier life spans with not even a mirage of a conclusion on the horizon. All fine and good, but wouldnt it be nice if we all could agree or even disagree on something every now and then ? Here is what we are going to do about it, wouldnt it be fun and informative to actually try to figure out on some pseudo sceintific basis the quality and flavor differences of particular locally accessible products and other fancy food ingredients. If nothing else it should at least spark some conversation and inspiration for all cooks proficient or otherwise. So over the next few months, we pick an ingredient, source it (hopefully for free), assemble a panel of interested tasters and see what we come up with. As to the sourcing of ingredients, I am straight up soliciting businesses who sell the stuff in Philly to donate it for FREE for the tastings as it would be too expensive otherwise. There will be no collusion or shilling. The only benefit aforementioned businesses will get is perhaps increased sales and customer awareness from the results. Seems to me like a fair trade off unless somebody wants to pay for it ? Thanks to my powers of persuasion, I managed to procure 18 bottles of various Olive oils in the last 36 hrs from various generous entities. I didnt think it would be this easy. Tastees already or soon will know themselves. Remember that Bottarga question ? First tasting scheduled for next week. Tasting 101 : OLIVE OIL. Other fun topics to follow. Stay Tuned.

I propose a 48hr delay on bad dining experiences Sandy..... On the topic of soft openings, here is my impression of a soft opening meal I had with Murkury that should have cost us both $400 if we paid for it. http://forums.egullet.org/index.php?showtopic=94387&st=30

Agreed, Phil, lets go try it. AND here lies the problem with new restaurants Phil, soft openings have completly evolved into free for all unstructured dinner parties that basically anyone just show's up for and the kitchen staff wander's into the room now and then that it defeats the purpose. The correct way to do it is to book *EXACT* simulated resevations for everyone attending on the first day so the kitchen can cook the food properly in a structured sequence replicative of the restaurant's serving style. Subsequent soft openings then increase the numbers to stress the kitchen and if you can afford a 3rd one (Budget it into your business plan) walk out on the street and find some walk-ins the kitchen wasnt expecting to see how they handle it. That is how you work out the kinks, everyone is told their dinner is free up front and asked to order an app/entree/dessert. Simply having a "party" as restaurants too often do in philly ........and inviting friends of the restaurant or in the industry amounts to a waste of time, food and opportunity to do it right. On the day you decide to be open to the public and start charging full price, you only have yourself to blame because you really havent practiced. The only proper soft opening I have attended and quite enjoyed was Cantina Caballitos...remember that one phil ? I completely agree with Phil's computer analogy, nobody would put up with a car that needs an oil change just because the dealership is new.

Dude you need to give people more credit. Folks are more sophisticated than making impulsive decisions based on one person's admitted rant on the internet. This hardly affects the restaurant, the way I read the initial post, there were three issues of contention, The food sucked. It took way too long. They oversold us deceptively. Issues 2 and 3 are irrelevant for 90% of people who would go there because 80% of the diners in any restaurant in South Philly are NOT ordering tasting menus. Therfore it sublimates into one person (perhaps 2 or 3) having food they percieved to be lame. Again, the dining public is more intelligent than concluding a brand new restaurant sucks period. All restaurants have thier share of naysayers. Where does the censorship stop. Should Craig Laban and Frank Bruni no longer write negative reviews because in your words " I do like to see all restaurants succeed, especially in the city I love, and hysterical posts such as this one don't help the cause."......It's absurd. Feel good politics has no place in consumerism. That's life. E-gullet as much as I love it forms a tiny part of the general publics restaurant choosing decision process. 10 times as many people open Zagat first though I think they are crappy reviews by lemmings. The place looks great, It will do well and it's unique for the hood. Pif is just down the street, it fits nicely into its location and rent is cheap down there. So censorship arguments should be discouraged strongly as long as there are no ethical issues. That's my point, personally I wait 6 weeks before trying new restaurants in Philly, In NY however, go ASAP, they become impossible to book and more expensive. Gee I remember my first two Perse dinner costing $90 each for food.......

My point exactly.... This whole Brouhaha could have been settled if Philadining had simply attended the dinner then we could all see for ourselves... Phil who ? Phil A Dining....the John Holmes of food photography....

Are they in Season ?

Complete Rubbish. You dont get it. If you went to a "friend's" restaurant and the said "friends" say "can we cook for you" There is a clear unsaid understanding that you serve the standard app, entree ,dessert and insert a few more courses and charge a slight premium over the 3 course. ALL CHEFS DO IT. They should have been charged $60 max. It's not because they want a deal or discount, it is a standard overture of goodwill in the industry. In real world terms, this would be like say you went to buy a car and you had good credit, your brother-in-law is the finance manager at the dealership and before you say anything he says "I am going to hook you up with the factory discount and a great interest rate, let me take care of it, just sign here". You drive your car home and the first payment note comes to you and your interest rate is 22 %..........yeah you would be pissed. Seperately the number of courses and buzzwords like foie gras and truffles has nothing to do with the cost of a meal, foie comes in cans as do truffles. Simply sublimating it into "an 8 course meal that included foie gras and truffles" is meaningless. by the way what are "Umbrian truffles" ????? You could on the face of it disect the original menu that was posted. Salt Cod for Brandade costs nothing. Risotto with Prosecco is meaningless as prosecco has no defining flavor in cookery and you cant eat the bubbles plus each oyster costs 75 cents. 30 year old Balsamic isnt old enough to make a specific case for its age. Pork Belly is $1.68 a pound. Hangar steak is $2.95 a pound, dry aged ribeye is $12.95 a pound. "Beaujolais reduction" is nonsense since Beaujolais is mostly garbage even for drinking short of the Cru's like Chenas, Julienas, Morgon, Moulins a Vent, ect ect. Number of courses means nothing. Obviously since your initial post, you have done research to reach the above conclusion and the *implicit threat* of "since these kinds of things rarely dont come back around and bite you in the ass" seems to me to be a threat to engage in retribution ..........in the very behaviour you claim to despise and that is basically hypocritical. The tone further begs the question what is your true allegiance or connection to James restaurant is ?????? Believe me I am neutral in this situation, my issue is I despise any encouragement of sanitized posts. Since we are all being honest and passionate, lets call a spade a spade.

My last word on the subject....I have no opinions of the food since I havent been but this statement I wholeheartedly agree with. Hey Murcury.. I see you have been spoiled by Mr Robuchon.....