Vadouvan

1. Take a dartboard with you. 2. When you get there, attach the menu to your dartboard. 3. Throw 3 darts recklessly anywhere on the menu. 4. Eat what you hit. Seriously.... Pizza lombarda Salumi plate Sausage with fried egg Tripe romana Rabbit with polenta smoked octopus pizza Candele with boar Ragu I am really resisting going again tonight.......

You thought Laban had problems, its just a silly lawsuit, these people should be saving the legal fees and buying better meat. Look at what Frank Bruni is going through.... http://chinagrillmgt.com/pdf/Response_NYTimes.pdf

Absolutely correct, it could not have been said better. Osteria/Vetri will do for Phila what Paul Bertoli/Alice Waters did for the bay area. Seriously, Sue from Cowgirl Creamery worked under Bertoli.... http://www.cowgirlcreamery.com/bios.asp If you are passionate about Italian cooking, you *must* have cooking by hand. http://www.amazon.com/Cooking-Hand-Paul-Be...ie=UTF8&s=books and take your ace (can you say ass on e-gullet?) to Oliveto. http://www.oliveto.com/ Super banging food.... and while you are there, check out A-16 too. Its the kind of Italian food we dont have in philly that Osteria now does... http://www.a16sf.com/

It's called Miss Tootsies on south street.

Clearly Sandy, you havent witnessed Milton Street Philadelphia Mayoral campaign which started yesterday in New Jersey. Tell that to Senator...correction Former Senator George Allen (R.Va) remember the macaca controversy.

The last good Eddie murphy movie was trading places. On the subject at hand....the obvious question Phil is..... So they somehow are admitting that they served Laban, they knew it was Laban, the "anonymous" Laban, The "Laban who hides at public speaking engagements like Penn's library" and YET........somehow they efffed it up ??????? Dude If I had a steakhouse and I really cared about Laban's opinion to the point of suing him, I would have a heffer on standby strapped to a guillotine (sorry vegans)....and (Foiegrans). Seems to me they should concentrate on what they do, I certainly had no idea till the fact that they are suing was brought up. People are just dumb, the quickest solution to bad PR is to say nothing instead of suing for a retraction which only convinces more people that you suck. Edited to add : I believe you are correct, libel requires will , intent and knowledge. basically reckless and obvious disregard for the truth. Perhaps we should download and send them a copy of the first amendment.

Actually I just did a quick simple excel spreadsheet. You can directly put them out of business but you would have to spend between 5 and 10 grand. Here is how it works..... Basically it would require co-operation of several restaurants. Call primetime tables, buy a reservation and pay them. Cross-reference the reservation with the contact phone number. Share that phone number with all restaurants involved. Take NO reservations from that number. Use caller ID. SO they change the phone number. Repeat the process and continue to cross reference resrvation/phone number/caller ID. They will need to either continue to get ... 1. New phone land lines. (prohibitively expensive and timewise a pain in the ass dealing with NYNEX...now Bell or whatever. 2. Disposable cellphones like drug dealers in HBO show "The Wire" again stupidly expensive unless your profits are based on cocaine instead of reservations. YOU spend $40 to 50 each time, but each time you isolate a phone number. There is no way they can sustain that much of a direct assault. It would certainly change thier "free profit no actual commodity" business model and at the very deal make thier lives a pain in the ass. If I won the lottery, I would do it purely for the pleasure.......

True Andrew but even in NYC, it mainly appeals to those who see the act of getting a reservation as sport, you know those people...the "Financial services - My hedge fund and Salsichon is bigger than yours"

because food isnt as valued as other seemingly less important things. In truth JeffL it's just a matter of priorities. Face it, a lot people are deeply in debt for consumer goods that become obsolete in 18 months but have no interest in upgrading what they put in thier bodies. Now that Walmart sells organic food, it's all good. The beauty of what osteria does is that for so long, Marc's passion and dedication came at steep prices, justifiable but steep nonetheless. I have eaten at Vetri once since it's been open. A good meal but you have to spread out those expensive meals. Osteria is to Philadelphia what Bouchon is to Napa. Thus having access to that level of cooking at those prices is totally worth it. Remember even the Starr empire tried to do an Italian restaurant and it tanked from day one. For gods sake people rave about the food at D'angelos for the same price........ Matt, I have no problem with your prose or statement, I tend not to interprete passionate postings as anger....besides people who PM me to correct my spelling are 86'ed

Thats the big problem Elaine......I am afraid it's going to move a lot of restaurants towards requiring a credit card for reservations just like the hotel industry evolved. I dont eat anywhere that requires a credit card for a reservation with the single exception of PerSe and that was more about paying for the meal before you saw the bill so it didnt ruin your digestion. I would think OPENTABLE isnt too happy either....

Good points JeffL.... It's Pathetic, absolutely pathetic that this country can sustain multiple chains like Maggiano's, Carraba, Olive Garden, Bucca di Beppo ect ...ect which are basically creations of corporate twits in the midwest whose only experience of Italy was aboard a 15 story cruise ship. Its just a parody.....check this out.... There is even a franchise-gator........thats rights folks you heard it here first. Complete with your own bullshit quasi-Italian name..... http://www.franchisegator.com/italian_rest...CFQJWgQodlmtFhg It's all garbage but unfortunately, it's shaping peoples expectations into solid mediocrity.

Well it seems Danny Meyer is against it, but as you mention, maybe restaurants dont care as long as you show up. The issue though is that when you buy the reservation, they give you an assumed name which the reservation is booked under so you can claim it. BUT you have to pay first.....it's tricky but legal.

I has been discussed in other cities but I wonder how Philadelphians feel about the fact that primetimetables intends to expand into philadelphia as is obvious from thier website. http://www.primetimetables.com/ I think it's the absolute worst opportunistic idea that makes dining out less democratic. Can they pull it off here ? Probative discussion of the issue definitely trumps any awareness they may gain from this thread. Any thoughts people ? I highly doubt loads of people are going to pay an extra 50 bucks to eat at 7.30pm ?

Gordon have you considered being a food writer ? I love your descriptions, if I did not know you I would think you were a nutty 60 year old guy. Like Sodium pentathol injection.... ?

Andrew Can you imagine.....how good that could be. It will end up being the "Italian balthazar". back to philly......Pedro I had $8 vodka cocktails. Havent you learned your lesson..... Restaurants open prices are low, drinks are cheap, they get reviewed, get the bells, prices go up.

Mr Fenton, this will be a similar veined restaurant in NYC. The prices seem to be toe to toe with Osteria. http://nymag.com/listings/restaurant/morandi/menu1.html

Admit it Capaneus, you are a Byowhore..... Marc and Jeff are partners. Sadly capaneus bad tidings from today's weekly.... Check out "Next Drinking Trend" and "Next Hit Restaurant".........

Rae has a great value in a 3 course $30 lunch prixe fixe. Great value on a chilly day

Spotted at Dibruno's 18th and Chestnut today.....

Cotechino with fried egg and polenta...

In the the mathematical sense, developing a price vs value graph for the food at Osteria is flawed reasoning. I just ate there again tonight, my 4th meal in 5 days and after basically going through the whole menu, I can tell you that while some things might appear to be "overpriced" (not my opinion), some other things also appear to be underpriced. I had the Candele with boar ragu tonight which was $16. $16 may seem pricy for a bowl of pasta but again referrring to my "Italian bias theory", this isnt the $12 Penne with Vodka creme sauce that people rave about in town and is being served by restaurants owned by Albanians with mexican cooks. Before you call me a racist, here me out...... Italian food made with intergrity isnt any cheaper than any other cuisine. The biggest problem here......and I quote THOMAS KELLER is that "Americans are increasingly receptive to mediocrity"......unquote. Direct your hate mail to Per se...columbus circle. In any case the food again was outstanding, not everything in every restaurant is great but great meals only happen when great food meets people who "get it". People as a whole dont get "italian food" in philly simply because "Italian-American" has come to define the expectation. Similarly the worst absolutely horrible dim sum you can find in Hong Kong makes everything in chinatown taste like rummaging through a dumpster. It isnt about elitism and saying everyone has to travel abroad to "get it", the point is that chipping away at authenticity without any rational or factual basis as to what is in fact authentic is bullshit. To some degree that is what osteria is trying to achieve. Trattorias and Osterias in Italy cook for love, they dont need 6 cooks, 8 servers, 3 managers, 2 bartenders, 3 dishwashers, 2 food runners and perhaps investors to pay back and valet parkers. We as Americans routinely make these silly comparisons but ignore the costs of running a restaurant properly without which we would bitch about the "bad service". Good service requires to 20 to 25 employees above. Those 25 employees above means the food isnt going to cost the same as it would if you made it yourself at home. Get over it. We *are* being ripped of in several places but not at restaurants that use artisanal products and processes to prepare our food. People pay $3.25 for 8 oz of Chai Latte, 3oz of premixed, presweetened shelf stable tea mixed with skim milk and.........Whoaaaa.......expensive Steam. Total cost 25 cents max.

Nice Avatar, you should change it to the national complainers society....

I would say that the prices would be considered "High" in most cases if it wasnt for the fact that there is already an established status quo of paying those prices for mediocre dishes all over the place. If one factors in the point that this is handmade food being made in not handmade quantities, it requires a great deal of labor and labor cost. Considering also that this isnt food that 85% of the public can cook themselves in any reasonable amount of time, it simply is a bargain. I have always said that the price of food in restaurants that are good reflect the fact that besides outright "deliciousness" it is a service you cannot provide yourself.......and in this case no one else in Phliiy can provide for you according to DAgordon. Routinely Italian food gets a bad rap when you hear the quote "It's a bit pricy for Italian". That statement ignores the depth of passion, patience and artisanal quality of true italian cooking simple because people have gotten used to paying the prices of all 15 mediocre Italian BYO's that serve the same food in the city. Osteria *even* manages to avoid the "retail outlet" menu items that people rave about and pay for willingly. In the interest of making this point, what I am about to say isnt about trashing the following restaurants I am about to mention, it is merely to illustrate my point. TRIA....50 % of the menu are retail items. Cheeses, Sweet cheese condiments, relishes, ect, ect. AMADA......as far as I know doesnt make any of it's cured meats, buy and slice, cheese with truffle honey, olives...... Before anyone get's thier panties in a bunch, I am not saying Amada and Tria are not good restaurants, what I am saying is the "Italian Bias" is always active but people dont figure that Michaud is curing lardo and making sopresatta from scratch. Marc's making your pizza and it is a true artisan menu. *That* makes it a bargain. Do you realise Vetri's Pizza is 3 to 4 dollars more than a domino's pizza of the same price.........except liiiiiiight years better.

Regarding Parsley...... Shacke's point is a good one and well taken as someone whose food knowledge and interest I greatly respect. As Philadining's companion during that meal.....I assure you the wisps of parsley in the pictures in no way deterred the banging flavors of the food. In particular that pizza with the egg (which I ate alone) Lets also remember that Marc Vetri didn't start cooking last week. I can assure you that while premature simply because of the age of the restaurant, this is easily the best Italian restaurant in the city period, BYO or not. NOW....without getting too off topic Yes the parsleyfication of food in many restaurants is incredibly amateurish but it is usually when the herbs are sprinkled all over the rim of the plate. There is however also an *equally amateurish* practice that many restaurants engage in but nobody seems to complain about. For example places like Brasserie Perrier and the Fountain at 4 Seasons garnish plated food with fresh herbs like rosemary and thyme sticking up.