annecros

Wonderful JGM. Keep us posted.

Did you have time to read the thread I linked above? It really does help. Cal, or slaked lime, is not used to make masa arepa but is used to make masa harina. Masa arepa is precooked with heat. The Venezuelans on the thread explain it very well. It also links to a nice blog entry. I work in Venezuela and will be there again in February. Areperias here I come! -L ← OK, I think I am now getting it now. Reread the thread again, and did a little more research. The dried, cracked corn (not hominy) is boiled and ground for the Masa, or dough, for the traditional arepa preparation. Masa Harina is a flour made from hominy, the cooking and hulling process being accomplished with Lye. Masarepa is comparable to "quck" grits, in that the corn (not hominy) has been boiled and ground, then dehydrated again for a quicker version of Masa that rehydrates to accomplish the masa for the arepa. So, logically, the flavor and texture would be closer to cornmeal or heart grits (which are not ground from hominy) than they would the typical grits. Amazing the places a kernal of corn goes to! I guess that would explain why Mariposa associated my hoecake with the arepa flavor, as I use stone ground corn meal from a grist mill. In my cooking, I have found only a subtle differnce in using cornmeal for hoecake and masa harina for arepas. The biggest difference seems to be in moisture content of the finished product. When Mariposa is back and rested I intend to spend some time with her. She lives with her elderly husband, and loves to talk about her home with others. She has the most amazing array of mortars and pestels, and I guess I can see why! I think her daughter and SIL run a restaurant in the area somewhere. Thanks, lperry. I learn something new every day. Have a big, fat loaded arepa for me!

It really isn't all the same. Masa harina is not precooked. Masa arepa is. Here's another link to the food network. Arepa recipe and explanation of masa arepa. I think part of the confusion is that some people who do not have access to arepa flour substitute masa harina. Corn cakes made from masa harina will be delicious, but they will not be authentic arepas. You need this product or one similar: Harina PAN at Latinmerchant.com. Another source of confusion is that both maize products tend to be translated as "corn flour" or "corn meal." Hope this helps. -L ← Well, I am still confused. I do know that "masa al instante para whatever" is definitely a premix with additives like flour or salt and sometimes milk solids or levening, depending upon what it is designed for, and anything that is made from hominy is "cooked" by definition. Therefore, if masa is hominy dough, it is all precooked. The nixtamalization process cooks the corn, I know enough about lye to know that for a fact. Lye and moisture create intense heat. Check out soapmaking. Will have to dig up an old guy in Venezuela who grows and grinds his own masa, I suppose. I'm sure he has a web site somewhere! My neighbor was out today, but will try to catch up with her tomorrow. She really is a lovely and very knowledgable lady, and we trade recipes all the time. The first time I sent over collards and hoecake, she asked me how I got my arepa so thin and crispy! If she doesn't know, she will tell me. But if she does know, there will be no discussion.

Well, I think it may be the principal. They'll come for the trans fat-free shortening next, and if they knew leaf lard was being used, they would take that, suet! ask a nutritionist what they think of suet - gone, goose fat will kill ya you know, and that puff pastry is just pure butter which = fat. Sad.

Interesting. I do know that harina simply means flour, and masa means corn. I do know that P.A.N. is a brand name that makes baking mixes in a great variety, and I mean HUGE, like a whole endcap of various pouch type baking mixes and flours for various applications. Sort of like Betty Crocker or Martha White. I do know that Goya makes masarepa in both white and yellow: http://www.latinmerchant.com/productdetail...ProductID=F0009 Once again, the big differences in the product appear to be branding, it is all masa harina as far as I can tell. Will have to read the fine print on the bags in the future. Will have to check in with my Venezuelan neighbor, who came here 20 years ago and is 60 years old, and see if she can help. Sounds like the original poster has a very good source for masa information and the proper preparation of an arepa that she trusts. Beginning to sound like the great grits/polenta debate. OOPS. My bad. I see that "Masa" actually means Hominy, not corn. So anything with Masa in the prefix is produced from hominy. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masa http://www.epicurious.com/cooking/how_to/f...y/entry?id=3440 It sounds like our original poster would prefer to make fresh Masa from dried hominy. I can also pick up bags of dried, cracked hominy around the corner. Yep, sounding more and more like the great grits/polenta debate.

Here is the recipe I use: http://www.recipes4us.co.uk/Cooking%20by%2...20%20Arepas.htm I usually make the basic arepas, but sometimes add Queso Fresco. Very much like the "Hoecake" made in the Southern United States in the plain version. I cannot help you get Masa Harina in New Zealand, however, unless you want to mail order, but that is SO expensive. Perhaps you can PM me and we could work something out if you are interested in making from the flour instead of grinding your own corn? There is a hispanic market literally within walking distance, and Masa Harina or Maseca or even rice flour are dirt cheap. I think the pupusa usually uses rice flour instead of corn flour. I'll have to check with one of my neighbors.

It is really interesting watching the success of "virgin" bread bakers with this recipe. Makes you wonder if Leheay is trying to put himself out of business! I think it has sold more than a few copies of "No Need to Knead" as well. It certainly has changed our habits in my household. I think its wonderful. "Time to bake the bread."

Let me know how it goes. I have some homemade limoncello and some homemade coffee liqueur that could turn out very interesting, I think. Someone upthread did Champagne, and it came out well.

Swedes (rhutabaga) come to mind. I do sort of a coarse mash with butter and brown sugar and it is a staple for Thanksgiving. Quite good, and a nice break from carrots, which are not my favorite. Peaches work well with poultry or pork, as well as apricot. Orange zest can be microplaned onto almost anything! I'm a BIG fan of Orange and bitter chocolate. You might be able to do something interesting for dessert with one of those Chocolate "Whack an Orange" things (that my grownup kids still expect in their stockings!). A cake with orange curd and a ganache? There are about a gazillion pumpkin recipes out there, and butternut squash will work in most of them as well. Here is a great page full of Orange recipes: http://recipes.lovetoknow.com/wiki/Category:Orange_Recipes Mostly desserts - but some interesting salads (Orange and Tomato sounds good, but I would use bacon fat instead) as well. That Kingfish with Celery and Oranges intrigues me. Sounds similar to something I had in the keys on yellowtail. I would toss some white wine and garlic in there, I think. Allrecipes has another 400 or so. I usually sort by ratings on Allrecipes, because I have caught a few dogs there, and would rather work with something tested. http://allrecipes.com/Recipes/Fruits-and-V...anges/Main.aspx Anne

I hope that it doesn't have to be said that I would let a kid get anywhere NEAR smoking-hot cast iron. ← It is detailed on her blog that Mom did in fact handle the cast iron, though it does bear repeating here I suppose. I think its great that her five year old got to make bread! Nothing but good will come of that. ← She does help make quesadillas at the stove, but I'd have to be pretty damn crazy to let her handle a Le Creuset that was pre-heated to 450 degrees. She was very proud of the bread. I told her that we would try some new variations this week, and she has requested olive. ← Wow, she's made it to the olive before me! Both of you have fun with it. Maybe she will never have the "Baker's Block" so many people get.

I hope that it doesn't have to be said that I would let a kid get anywhere NEAR smoking-hot cast iron. ← It is detailed on her blog that Mom did in fact handle the cast iron, though it does bear repeating here I suppose. I think its great that her five year old got to make bread! Nothing but good will come of that.

That is really sad. The only advantage I can think of is that it MIGHT keep the mash warm? Really bad review there on it, as well.

All 3 of my favorite not fancy good local food restaurants are closed on Sundays. Any cuisine you had in mind? Cuban, seafood, ?? ← And what part of Miami will you be in?

This happened to me twice--stuck solid as a rock--once in cast iron and once in corningware. Every other time it dropped right out. Go figger. I think (surmise, guess?) that the sticking results from too-wet dough. Yes, oiling works and doesn't seem to hurt anything.Steve ← The only other thing I can think of is preheating the pot - on the sticking issue, that is. I have not had this problem, ever, and have had some soggy stuff flopped in there. But, thinking back, I almost always hear a split second sizzle and see the exterior of the loaf - on the top which is visible - instantly dry and take on a new texture. Maybe the burst of steam on the bottom acts as an insulator as the loaf "sears" on the bottom, and does not stick? Am I making sense? I've used both cast iron and enamel on cast iron, no pyrex yet.

Perhaps start with the lighter fruits, atemoya and crambola, then the fuller citrus of the kumquat for a transition, then passionfruit and dragonfruit (I would almost do those together) guava and then papaya (a lot of people mistake the flavors for each other, and it would be nice to give then a direct contrast) then finish of course with the Black Sapote - sort of like dessert. Otherwise, you might use the atemoya and crambola for "palate cleansers" and sort of group the other fruits by type. Very adventerous, I think you guys will have fun no matter how you present.

I think it is to relieve you of the step of scoring the dough, as the folded edges create a vent. In my experience they do. The guy that owns the Sullivan Street Bakery just sort of dumps and jiggles to make sure the dough is mostly centered n the pot. He didn't seem incredibly concerned. I think the bread will create its own vent, but it is nice to have a fold to preordaine the venting of the stuff. Minimalist. I think.

Here is an interesting example of Southern Food and Culture influence on the rest of the nation: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/featu...8689493-1791843 Number 1 on the list of Amazon's Editor's Picks: Cooking, Food and Wine "The Lee Bros. Southern Cookbook: Stories and Recipes for Southerners and Would-be Southerners" I think I am going to put this on my Christmas list after peeking at the "New Ambrosia" recipe. I have a lot of Southern Cookbooks, but I am intrigued and it is on sale. It goes without saying that the Lee Brothers have been great ambassador's for Southern Cooking.

Here's the link to the revised NYT article: http://www.nytimes.com/2006/12/06/dining/0...html?ref=dining Good summary of what's been going on with everyone experimenting with the bread.

That's the neat part down here. I am literally within walking distance of an Argentinian Restaurant, a noodle place, a Caribbean Bakery/Deli (though I am not too fond of goat, I will take the oxtails anytime), and two hispanic/asian (under the same roof) groceries. The kosher places I have to drive a few miles, along with the Indian/Pakistani places. Then there is the Hard Rock Casino on the Seminole Reservation! Six miles from my front door. Great fun!

Thank you very kindly lady. I wouldn't say that historically the culture and food difference between Jacksonville and Key West, are any more diverse than the differences between Memphis and New Orleans. In fact, both being port cities, I would expect more similarities. Venison and fowl. There's a reason why the Key Deer are endangered, and it wasn't all about cars. Swamp cabbage, or "Hearts of Palm" if you prefer. Coconuts. Yes, it has become a much more desirable place to live. I have to wonder though, how much Southerners have influenced others who have migrated here, rather than the other way around. And how much Southerners have influenced the areas into which they have migrated. I don't worry too much about the "original" culture, because simply it was not original, but a blending of cultures. I still argue that the common denominator in the South is the basic corn culture of the Native Americans, and that everything else is an adaptation through a European/African prism, in addition to whatever is readily available. I do however feel strongly that it should be remembered and preserved, I am right there with you on that, so that those who come after us understand where they came from. As far as adapting and changing, that is one of the things that make Southerners who and what they are, despite the stereotypes. One NASCAR track does not make a Southern state, but FOUR absolutely huge ones? I am really enjoying this conversation! Jacksonville, huh? Just take 441 South if you want to see some lovely country, hear some slow drawls, and see a bit of Old Florida including antebellum architecture and produce stands that sell peas by the side of the road. That's the home of those nice Ugly Ripe tomatoes I pay a premium for down here, and the strawberries - my goodness! They make a great monstrous shortcake around Plant City. My son was born at NAS JAX (20 something years ago), and my brother and his family are in Green Cove Springs. I have no problem at all finding collards in South Broward county. Big fat leafy green collards. And I notice a lot more turnip and mustard greens in the markets than when we moved down here about 10 years ago. Could only find the turnips at first, but now mustard is appearing. I think we are making some inroads here and there. Take care, Robyn.

Tell the Good News sister! They won't believe it until they try it, but to be fair I didn't either! The pot that will take the heat seems to be the big impediment for most people. Oh, for the days of cast iron...

Horrors! NO! Back away from the garbage can immediately before I have to get the fire hose out! You can toss it into the stock, but I would use it as an additive to sauces. I am sure there are other suggestions coming up the pike...

Well, in a historical sense, southern culture is very young, and borrows from other cultures both indigenous (native american) and imported (europe and africa). The acadians did not arrive in the Louisiana area until the 1760's, a little over 250 years ago. No one argues that the culture in New Orleans is not Southern, or that the influence brought there by the Acadians was not significant. (Long, boring post to follow) Key West is unusual, in that its location between the Florida straights and Gulf of Mexico made it the "Gibraltor" of the West. Perry planted the American flag on Key West in 1822, a scant 60 years after the Acadians arrived in Louisiana, 17 years after the Lousiana Purchase, and 23 years before Texas became a state. Fort Zachary Taylor was built in the 1840s - 1860s, and was the reason that Key West remained in US hands during the Civil War when Florida seceeded. Fort Zachary Taylor was instrumental in the successful naval blockade of the Confederacy. As far as the native population is concerned, the Conchs were the decendants of loyalists to the UK who fled to the Bahama's from the Southeastern US after the Revolutionary War. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Key_West,_Florida From the site: "Many of the residents of Key West were immigrants from the Bahamas, known as Conchs who arrived in increasing numbers after 1830. Many were sons and daughters of Loyalists who fled to the nearest crown soil during the American Revolution.[7] In the 20th Century many residents of Key West started referring to themselves as "Conchs", and the term is now generally applied to all residents of Key West. Some residents use the term "Conch" to refer to a person born in Key West, while the term "Fresh Water Conch" refers to a resident not born in Key West but who has lived in Key West for seven years or more.[8] However, the true original meaning of Conch applies only to someone with European ancestory that immigrated from the Bahamas.[9] It is said that when a baby was born, the family would put a conch shell on a pole in front of their home. Many of the Bahama immigrants live in an area of Old Town next to the Truman Annex called "Bahama Village." Major industries in Key West in the early 19th century included fishing, salt production, and most famously salvage. In 1860 wrecking made Key West the largest and richest city in Florida and the wealthiest town per capita in the U.S. A number of the inhabitants worked salvaging shipwrecks from nearby Florida reefs, and the town was noted for the unusually high concentration of fine furniture and chandeliers which the locals used in their own homes after salvaging them from wrecks." End quote. It's location on the trade routes between the gulf ports and east coast brought a great southern influence to the Island. Flaglers railroad did not in fact "find" Key West, so much as it reopened a community after the devastation of the Civil War and created another boom. The architecture is almost identical to that found in old parts of both Charleston, SC and New Orleans - and that makes sense. Victorian styling, porches on the side to catch the breeze, light colors. It is missing the african influenced slave population and plantation mentality that colors the history of much of the south. Ironically, that is generally found in the immigrants to Key West from Cuba, where slave labor was used on the sugar plantations there extensively. The orginal population of Key West, were of course, Native Americans. They were pretty much wiped out. Beans, rice, BBQ and sugar cane along with the key limes and wonderful seafood. Bring your cotton shirt and white linen suit (if you must wear a suit) as well. Sorry for the long post. Anne

Possible. She had a two top taking up a table in her section and splitting a plate. Those conditions alone can sour a servers attitude.

I like what I am getting with the starter flavorwise as well. I am only about two loaves in with a rye starter, but I am beginning to get that well worn flavor that I love. I think my last two loaves were a bit overproofed. Not to the point of a bowl of dead yeast, but not quite right either. We have had warmer temperatures down here, and I hate turning on the air, so my ambient room temperature has been around 80 and probably a bit on the high side. We have a cool front coming through, so should be better this loaf.