annecros

Sorry, I have not tried it, but am intrigued. Please describe.

Even when a Southerner does not participate in the "tall glass of water" ritual, they usually know what it means when someone turns the phrase, and understands the intent and meaning if not the origin of the phrase. Sure things change, they always do and always will. Re-arguing the War of Northern Aggression (and the stimulus behind the seccession of the southern states was complex and not as one dimensional as one would think sometimes) is silly. The CSA lost. But there is no arguing that the Civil War was, and still is, a huge determining factor in creating the subset of the population that is Southern. Both by those who identify themselves as Southern, and those who reside outside of the South who identify others as Southern. The food is really just food. Its the shared ritual within a group that makes it Southern, and associates those people termed Southern by themselves and others, that makes it Southern Food. One of the most Southernlike experiences I have ever had was in California. I was eating crab. I would have never identified them as Southern, and they certainly wouldn't self identify as such. But they certainly pegged me as Southern, and without a smirk. Southern African Americans are just as Southern as Southern "white" people, as are Southern Hispanics, and Southern Native Americans etc., etc. I think that complexity in the culture, and the interaction within subgroups, is one of the things very nice about the South. It bothers me when race is interjected into the Southern debate, but it inevitably is interjected and almost always by those who are not Southern. It only serves to feed inaccurate, blanket, negative preconceptions and stereotypes of the South, and I would like to think we would be long be past that, but I suppose that the sins of a minority of the Southern population many generations ago is the stigmata we must bear for a few more generaions. The majority of the population of my home town would probably self identify as African American. Each one would probably self identify as Southern as well. My parent's, grandparent's, and extended family's households were honestly color blind. Believe it or not. It would have been rude, and just plain wrong, not to be.

I've done some dried herby stuff in a rub and it was fine, no experience with fresh herbs here in this application. ← awesome , did you just roast it low and slow Im kinda worried that the herbs will burn and taste bitter and with these gifts from heaven known as a rib roast I dont want to make any bad decisions. Im using all dried herbs save for rosemary some salt and oil. oh ribby roast your my favorite friend. ← When I used the herby rub, I was smoking so it was low and slow and no sear. Oven roasting, I stick with plain old salt-pepper-minced garlic-olive oil. I do it way ahead, and let the surface dry open in the fridge overnight at least.

Tell me about it. I just put a gallon of buttermilk in the oven for cheesecake and my smoked salmon platter and a couple of other small things for Christmas. Definitely time consuming. Do you utilize the whey? If so, how? I'm going to have quite a bit of it soon. Maybe for the liquid in my no-knead bread? Have you ever frozen it?

"Heirloom Albacore" Sounds like a can of Starkist I've got leftover from the hurricane supplies.

Being from the South, it is not difficult for me to relate anything back to food! First I'll go all Wiki on ya: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic From the entry: "An ethnic group is a human population whose members identify with each other, usually on the basis of a presumed common genealogy or ancestry (Smith, 1986). Recognition by others as a separate ethnic group, and a specific name for the group, also contribute to defining it. Ethnic groups are also usually united by certain common cultural (behavioural, linguistic and ritual or religious) traits. In this sense, an ethnic group is also a cultural community. Processes that result in the emergence of such a community are summarized as ethnogenesis." Food is foundational to the Southern culture and cultural practices. It is one of the ethnic markers, after our accent probably, that those on the outside use to identify Southerners as an ethnic group. The "tall glass of water" example cited earlier is a good, simple way of demonstrating this. The glass of water offered to a stranger is more than just a glass of water in the Southern culture. There is a ritual involved and expected behaviour. Using the phrase "tall glass of water" in a sentence has a cultural meaning that other members of the ethnic group immediately recognize and acknowledge, even if it is just with a smile. The food ritual has become linguistic code that remains in the language even when air conditioning has eliminated the need to keep everybody hydrated for survival purposes. If you want to get really complex, we could talk about the intertwining of food and religion in the South - ritualized food preparation and consumption at funerals, Dinner on the grounds after church. Family reunions are loaded with not only great food - but ritual. "Aunt Grace is asking for you," will send a 60 year old man running to the chair where his elderly aunt is holding court. He'll take a knee, hold her hand, smile and greet her respectfully. The first thing he will ask is if she needs some more tea, or if he can bring her a piece of pie. That others recognize us as Southern is just as important as our self identification as such in creating an ethnic group. Even you identify a discreet group as Southern, and found a common characteristic that you could use to "mark" them! The Ashkenazic are recognized not only by themselves, but even by the larger ethnic group that they are a subgroup of, because of cultural differences and shared traits. Food is great ambassador for any peoples, and says a lot about the shared heritage enjoyed by the group. Now, how this came to be in the south is the result mostly of the physical interaction in the environment of the South (where most of the food belongs) - but much has to be said of the "active" ethogenesis required to unite the South pre-civil war, and the hardships of the civil war and after. The iconography is everywhere - statues, schools, plaques, cemetarys with CSA tombstones. A billion little girls named Bonny (the Bonny Blue Flag, the real standard of the Confederacy) and all those little Lees and Beauregards (both Generals were West Point graduates). In order to survive after the civil war, people had to band together, feed one another, and be kind to one another. All in my opinion, of course. Excuse me now, while I go fix some biscuits for hubby's breakfast. Edit to add: My husband just pointed out the "glass of water" concept that carries over into social and reproductive custom, as in "She's a tall drink of water." said admiringly (and quietly so as not to offend) as the lady strolls by two southern guys on the prowl. Leave it to him.

I've done some dried herby stuff in a rub and it was fine, no experience with fresh herbs here in this application.

Aww, I know I'm going to. Can't resist. After all, it's Christmas!

There's nothing wrong with offering a stranger a glass of water on a hot day. There is no denying the use of words in the South. And you are right, in the rare occaision when you are not verbally acknowledged as existing, you are non verbally acknowledge with eye contact and a nod. Yes, it is rude if you don't do it. It is a shame that the service industry has to explain to some young people that when you are within 10 feet of another human being, you should acknowledge existence of that human being. I was fortunate enough to learn by example. Southerners are so stigmatized as slow speaking, pig headed, prejudiced and ignorant. It is just as insulting to a Southerner, as it would be to anyone else who is judged solely on the location of their birth. Sure there are bad people in the South. You don't have to tell a Southerner that, we tend to be brutally honest with one another to tell the truth. But being Southern and caucasion doesn't mean you are a bad person. That's just silly and unfair, no matter how a person would choose to defend it. Prejudice is prejudice. 'Course, I just fell off the turnip truck, ya know. Southerners are prone to that too, playing dumb in order to gain the advantage. It works. It works very well. The self deprecating sense of humor is mostly just dissembling for whomever you are interacting with in order to have time to size them up. I understand that we speak in code to many who are not Southern - and we seem to catch on to each other's jokes and double meanings quickly, laugh and move on to other topics. That's because we do. It is not out of mean spiritedness, it is simply a matter of community. We know who we are and what we are, and we know it for a fact. We can take it when others think inappropriate thoughts, and even when they verbalize them, and are dignified enough to politely overlook ignorance. Sometimes. If you have been put in your place by a true southern lady, it generally takes anywhere from a few minutes to a couple of hours to figure out you've had the facts of life explained to you - sometimes days. But you never forget it. I know I haven't when the facts have been explained to me. I would feel welcome if you offered me a tall glass of cold water. I would thank you very much, and ask how you and yours are doing, and am certain I would enjoy passing a bit of the day with you. I'm certain that you would offer me another when I was finished, and that I would politely decline and go on my way, unless something vital or very interesting were being discussed. I'd know where to find another glass of water in the future if I was in need. That's being Southern. Southerner's understand the literal metaphor in a tall, cold glass of water offered without request or hesitation, and are appreciative of it and graciously accept it, and offer the same consideration to others. That's just being human, and touching another human life. I have seen it done day in and day out, across every racial-economic-educational-social divide you can imagine. And it happened in the South, and happens there every day. Facts are facts. And the food is varied, carefully prepared, and just plain good!

A tall glass of water is what's offered if the intention is to hopefully clear off that front porch right quick without being straightforward rude. A cold glass of sweet tea means, sit on down for a spell, honey. ............................ Never did see any of those Southern women that were supposed to resemble shrinking violets, either, though I kept my eye out. Not a single one to be found, anywhere. ← Scratch a shrinking violet, and you will find a tiger lily.

The only place I've ever seen anything that big is in a meat cooler in a market before cutting! Will it fit in your oven? What do you plan to cook it in? In terms of serving people - I made a 3 rib roast for Chanukah for me and my husband - almost 6 pounds. We got 4 meals out of it - and lots of fatty leftovers for our back yard critters (all of them - even the birds - like beefy/fatty stuff). So that's about .75 pound per person per serving. If you're serving 8 - that would mean you need about 6 pounds plus some for people who like ends/not rare pieces - people who are big eaters - plus some leftovers. So unless you are really really big on leftovers - or will be having lots of people to help you with leftovers - I'd cut junior about in half - maybe 60/40 - serve the larger half for Christmas and freeze the rest for another nice winter meal. Robyn ← It's the whole primal, still cryovaced from the slaughterhouse, dated and stamped. Junior was "harvested" on December 2. Love those guys, and they have honestly treated me like a sister. That is actually on the rather small side for this primal. Believe me, they have cookies and homemade limoncello coming out of their ears right now. I've already done the measuring and yes the whole thing will fit in my oven with room for circulation. I'm thinking the whole thing, maybe, just to say I've done it. I have smoked two of the big boys on our big smoker, but never oven roasted one this big in the oven. Two kids in college, poor, big eaters and the girlfriend of one and the boyfriend of the other. The other mid twenties and poor with my new son-in-law, who are also big eaters. They all bring stuff to carry leftovers home with them. Still debating taking the two ribs on the small end for hubby and myself for New Years when we will be all by our lonesome. And things will be quiet.

Those are VERY nice. Thanks for the link.

I've eaten a lot of cakes (Red Velvet and Carrot) that have cream cheese icing that sat out for a couple of days. Never even tasted off, in fact I sort of prefer it the next day.

The north/south phenomena plays itself out in other countries, too, with some similar results. One theory I just read (in an academic text, strangely enough) is that in every thing the human mind applies itself to, there must be an "upper" part and a "lower" part. The "upper" part being thought the "better" in the overall conceptualization, the "lower" part having been created by the mind for the singular purpose of segregation of "us" and the "others", making the "others" into something dangerous or different which of course self-mirrors the "better" upper into a reality of a sort (at least within the mind). Once this labelling occurs of upper/lower (even if it is geographically-based) the thing that has been named lower has a certain burden to bear. One way of bearing a collective burden is to embrace the definition, the naming, as a group, and bear it proudly rather than trying to apologize or hide from the name. Humor and defiance are then used by the group within the ideologic structure that has been created, and an identity group, a culture independent of other things, has been created. ← So Southerners self-identify as an ethnic group that they have created due to oppression, regardless of ancestry. Makes sense, pre and post civil war and all. Someone else pointed out to me that Jewish people share the same sort of self deprecating sense of humor. I think it was a prominent southern African American who pointed out that "In the North, they don't care how high you get, as long as you don't get close. In the South, they don't care how close you get, as long as you don't get high." High as in "uppity" and self-important, rather than high as in sucessful. I suppose you would have to speak the language to get the twist. Wish I could remember who said that. Anyway, it explains the commonality and community of the front porch and cold glass of sweet tea. It's not hard to find a tall glass of water in the south if you're thirsty.

I think the presalt helps a lot with the initial sear. I wasn't as pleased with my crust until I started presalting in the fridge.

I do this all the time. My kids don't understand why I insist on unsalted butter, but then salt my bread and butter. I think it would be a great way to simply showcase the salts and make them the star. Other stuff could be served to fill in.

What Anne said! Yeah, it's all about attitude. A variation of the old maxim, "never anything mechanical know that you're in a hurry." Ignoring/forgetting and letting the second rise go too long gave me my best results yet. One of my best buddies who does the sourdough thing comments (only somewhat jokingly) about the codependency relationship he has with the colony on his countertop... Gotta let 'em know who's boss! They have numerical superiority, but we're bigger! And we know how to use tools. Who's at the top of the food chain, after all--them or us? ← The 'tude has a lot to do with it, I think. The little yeasties seem to get grumpy when you interrupt them with noise and light while they are procreating. Some of the best bakers I know are the most nonchalant. Now, flowers and vegetables require constant thought and communion. I speak to them regularly...

I'm worried about the Summer as well. I have another two months of a pretty consistent high 60s at night and upper 70s during the day, then about March it will get warmer fast and the windows will shut and the air will be on until next October. My starter on the counter is giving me a nice sour flavor already. Five loaves in, and number six mixed up this afternoon.

I think in most cases its muttiness. My ancestors included Griners, Prestons, Mayos, Hills, Wilsons, two we think creek native american ladies who married out of an orphanage in the Carolinas (I am descended from both sisters through two lines), Gilliams, Levy's, Faircloths, Cohens, Hatchers, Gilliams, O'Connels, Boulangers, Nortons, Moores (that's an interesting bunch), and there is even an Arroyo back there somewhere, etc. etc. If I were to try to be absolutely honest about my ancestry, I would say that I am mostly anglo-saxon originating in the British Isles, but to be even more honest I'm a mutt, considering some of those last names were anglicized from other older family names. As I am related to about half the population of Georgia/Florida/Alabama - I would say that is the norm rather than the exception. The white gloved ladies of the south are some of the most dedicated and thorough geneologists around - the Mormons being the big dog - but with so many influences and so much intermarriage between ethnicities it is easier to identify with the new region rather than the old world, if that is what you are getting at. Remember that the South opened up rather early on after the "discovery" of the Americas by Europeans, and was utilized as both a penal colony and a refuge for those who were running away either from persecution or prosecution. Some of these people wanted to disappear, I'm sure. Add indentured servants and slaves, and you have one of the oldest melting pots in the country. It is very evident in the cooking techniques and food choices as well. The one element that seems to be mising is an Asian influence, but you will find some of that in the caribbean and the southern port cities that traded with the caribbean.

There is always the French's packet! And if you are an idiot for loving "jus", there are at least two of us here. Seriously though, I have some brisket trimmings and I think an oxtail or two in the freezer I am going to put in a low oven to boost my "jus" output. I'm doing yorkshire pudding as well, so I require lots and lots and lots of fat.

I've commented on this before in a similar thread - Here the breed, animal husbandry and aging are the key factors - marbling doesn't really come into what is considered 'top quality' meat, maybe it's the lack of a steak house culture. Is it also the feed? I've never seen cuts in the UK with the level of marbling I've seen in some of these meat porn shots. I don't really know - not really a beef guy. Out of interest, is the Prime grading done cut by cut? And do only 'prime' cuts get this grading? ← The grading is done on the carcass, and each of the primals is "rolled" or stamped. The grading process takes into account several inspection points on each animal. Another interesting point, all the packers refer to it as "harvesting" rather than slaughtering. Grading is done at the harvesting point, after the cow has been skinned and gutted. Oh, and grass fed beef is leaner than grain fed (usually corn) beef. Now, there is room within "grain fed" for several different formulations. Grain fed tastes better to me, but is brutal for the animal and entirely unnatural. I think tere is a thread here somewhere on the book "A Carnivores Delimma" that discusses the situation in great deatail. The majority of beef in the US is grain fed. Even if it is started on grass, it is generally "fed off" at the end of its life on a grain preparation of some sort.

Prime beef is available at any number of butchers in San Francisco, New York, and most other major cities. It's also available mail order from dozens of different sources. Lobel's in NY is the only mail order butcher I've used, they're extremely expensive but the quality is excellent. ← I was under the impression (from my beef purveyor) that all beef was inspected by the USDA in order to differentiate choice or prime. The top 3% is prime, then you have your diffrent "levels" of choice and so on. I would hate to think that someone was getting choice for prime. Especially when you're paying that much of a price on the retail end! ← I was told by people in the industry to never pay prime unless I was allowed to see the stamp on the primal. It does hover around 3% of beef slaughtered, which explains its scarcity and price. A little over half makes choice or better, 40% or so makes select, and the rest is pretty much dog food. There are grades within the grades as well. http://www.ams.usda.gov/lsg/mgc/Reports/BeefHistory2005.pdf Pretty graph I stole and used in my technical proposal here: http://www.ams.usda.gov/lsg/mgc/charts/beef/beefprime.gif You would be surprised at the amount of ungraded beef out there as well. There is no law that says you have to grade beef before you sell it. Now it does have to be inspected, but it does not have to be graded, and the slaughterhouses absorb that expense in operating cost. Quite a bit of cheap beef out there is ungraded, and believe it or not quite a bit of expensive beef out there is ungraded as well. http://www.fsis.usda.gov/Fact_Sheets/Inspe...ading/index.asp Select has almost taken over the supermarkets because it is a "leaner" beef, and can be marketed as such like that is a good thing. I was also lectured (these guys were a lot of fun to work with, and their technical knowledge was amazing, but it is sort of like talking to engineers) that the grading system seriously ignores several factors that have an effect on tenderness and flavor, including breed-feed-cut-storage-age of the cow etc. A large part of the gene pool in our beef is brahma. Big cows, but not very tasty. Prime beef is slaughtered so young it is almost veal. There's a big push in the industry to revamp the USDA grading system. The USDA also does a yield grade (how much beef can be expected from the carcass) but that just means there is a third stamp on some primals. Edit to add: It pays to know your USDA stamps, found on the last link above.

Ever try just taking packs of pills back to back? Ah! so that's why my jaw is so tense and my tastebuds are inflamed! I had Pizza Hut (my pms salt-craving satisfier of choice), and now I'm experiencing all those symptoms, too! If I had any caramels left, I'd be dipping them in salt and munching away. As it is, I'm about to leave for the grocery store to get some of my favourite black bean salty sembei. Mmmmmmm.... ← what do you mean take pills back to back? seasonale? or regular bcps? I'm confused. glad to see I am not the only one in pain here. I had 2 inflamed tastebuds, but one went away and I still have one left. Thank goodness I don't have any fever blisters. I get those all the time and consuming fish sauce, lime juice, and tomatos together while having one is not a good idea. I almost bought some sembei on saturday. That is the last thing I need ← My daughter just takes her regular pills back to back, skipping the "spacer" pills. Every three months or so she'll take a break. It works well for her. I was concerned and talked to our family doctor about it, but she said that doctors and nurses have been doing it for years. She was a chief resident in an ER department, and she said she personally went two years without a period. Just wait until you get to my end of the spectrum. I am of that "certain age" where everything is trying to shut down. Family history of hormone related breast cancer, so replacement therapy is out of the question - I get my period every two or three weeks - and it is BRUTAL - then I go two or three months without one - also BRUTAL because it is pregnancy scare time (even though it is highly unlikely, one ovary and tubes tied) and the last thing I need at my age is a baby. PMS seems to be a constant for the last couple of years. I can't wait until it settles down. I keep gallon bags of boiled peanuts in the freezer to take care of my salt craving. Then my feet feel like I'm walking on sharp rocks due to the water retention. Yep, I get a little grumpy sometimes...

I stand corrected.