annecros

Hehe, I'm costing myself some points on this one and could do it shorter, but I cannot resist: Karl Marx was said to be "The funniest of the Marx brothers." in a Groucho Marx one liner Groucho Marx and John Lennon were featured together on a postage stamp issued by the Republic of Abkhazia John Lennon touted the macrobiotic diet The macrobiotic diet features parsnips How about: Vladimir Lenin and Pemmican

Augusto Pinichet in Chile was under seige by Communist subversives The Communist People's Republic of China lays claim to Tibet Natives of Tibet drink Yak Milk How about: John Lennon and cowpeas Edit to add: You're kicking butt Mallet

NYCMike, I think you have been successfully assimililated, and are now part of the Southern Collective. Resistance is futile...

I'll do one of Old Foodies that intrigued me: Julius Caeser and Potatoes Julius Caseser's sister was named Julia Julia Child's recipe for Vichyssoise (Potato Leek Soup) from "The Way to Cook" is well noted This Vichyssoise contains 4 cups of diced potatoes Good job Nina. I used ERII because I wanted to offer a hat tip to the original thread, but hurt my head trying to come up with a food she wouldn't have ever eaten. Now, how about - Homer Simpson and Tofu

OK so you decided to pick on a cuisine that you may have no idea about. Have you been to NZ and have you experienced their cusine. Dude, that was exactly the point. Dave, I like the idea of the sandwich being our national food, but can we really take the credit for it? Annecros, many anthropologists consider the domestication of maize from teosinte (or from varieties of wild maize and teosinte, it's still being debated) one of the greatest feats of selective breeding in the ancient world. And since much of the Southwestern USA was part of Mexico until relatively recently, I feel comfortable in saying "We did that." ← Yep, that one is "ours." hehe I'll just pop some corn, and keep the score up to date.

I think you should fix yourself a mutton sandwich and celebrate your open mindedness and appreciation for the diverse culinary cultures of the world.

Thank you for that. Chocolate and peppers immediately sprang to mind when I read Busboy's post. I would add turkey, some interesting varieties of beans, some squashes, and sunflower to the list of exports with important culinary influence as well. I would beg to differ on crediting the bulk to the South American continent, though. Chocolate of course is the big hitter there, but remember that large parts of the Southwest were Mexico at one time not too long ago. Most of the other items were being cultivated anywhere there was arable land from the Great Lakes all the way down to the tip of South America. Native Americans were preparing hominy and cornbread in the eastern US since long before the Americas were discovered. If you want the "oldest" American food it would almost have to be some form of cornbread or a corn porridge concoction - tamales would be a great example of early American fast food. Prepared in advance and portable, the Mississippians ( the mound builders who were widespread all over the eastern Americas) have left tamal evidence in mounds that are thousands of years old. Interesting that tamales were "reintroduced" into the Mississippi Delta by Mexicans in the early 1900s. A nation of wanderers - both indigenous and imported. It certainly shows in the food.

Paula Deen's "Not Yo' Mama's Banana Pudding" is quite good though bordering on being quite Sandra Lee-ish. As long as you're spinning the dish (borrowing the best elements from the original classic), now I'm wondering if you could do something like a banana pudding tiramisu, using rum or banana liqueur perhaps. The permutations are endless... ← Wow, tiramisu was what I was thinking with the coconut milk (or cream of coconut) and rum permutation I was considering. Crunch up the cookies and make them drunk. Nothing wrong with that.

Looks great Mike, and there is no reason not to make it an everyday kind of thing. Banana's are cheap. Maybe a shallower dish or a couple more egg whites to bring the meringue up higher so it is more exposed to the browning elements in the oven? It is hard to get too much merinque. I haven't tried the great rum/banana pudding experiment, yet...

True everywhere at some point in time, don't you think? Even with the French, or any other country's culinary culture, at some point in time. Across the world, throughout history, food exchanges and all the ideas that go along with food preparation have had sparks of inspiration through looking beyond borders. Sometimes through travel and trade, sometimes through aggression in the form of wars. What "cuisine" can be said to be pure and of a single culture, really? As far as "national" cuisines go, the idea of the nation-state and the concept of nationalism that occured during the Enlightenment might have a bearing on these concepts of static national cuisines. Boundaries drawn, the mind shaping the nation and what the idea of nation would include, with the "indigenous" food as part of this. ← All true. But I would be very surprised if someone listing the six best restaurants in, say, Toulouse, would click off three Italian (assuming there is such a thing as a nation-state called Italy and it has a recognizable cusisine ) places, a Chinese restaurant and a Wursthaus. ← hehe, true, but is that a good thing or a bad thing for the gourmand? The French gourmand, that is.

Our youngest daughter was very fortunate in that her High School French department had a very active foreign exchange program. My daughter took three trips, and I in turn hosted three children over four years from a little villiage near Charmonix. Those kids were absolutely obssesed with blow pops and jolly ranchers. They would literally bring pounds and pounds of wonderful chocolate over with them, and went home with suitcases loaded with cheap hard candy. When asked what they wanted to eat, it was always hamburgers, and they scarfed hamburgers and hotdogs like they were scarce and precious, always oohing and ahing. I made sure they got real hamburgers while they were here. I had enough sense not to try to compete with the food they have at home - and made it a point to slow cook BBQ, make tacos and nachos and chili - that sort of thing. Hopefully they weren't just being polite, but based upon consumption they seemed to enjoy. The biggest mistake some of the host families made was trying to serve fondue to these kids. Big mistake. Culinarily speaking, my daughter prefered the home cooking to the foods they were exposed to in the week they spent in Paris. But the Charms Blowpop phenomenon still makes me smile and shake my head.

We'll have to agree to disagree on this. I think we define the word "intellectual" differently. (Perhaps that's partly because I'm a professor and so are my parents? I don't know your background, but you seem pretty intellectual, yourself, and more so than some presidents I can think of.) Yes, I agree that he is an example of someone who did succeed on merit. He's a lousy campaigner, but his loss might have had a lot more to do with his waffling, not to mention some very dubious events in Ohio and Florida. There have been several well-heeled New Englanders who have become President. One of them was a charismatic speaker, who actually lost to Nixon but became President. Another was George Prescott Bush, who defeated another New Englander who ran a terrible campaign, and benefitted from the support for Reagan. Politics are complicated. ← Who me? I just fell off the turnip truck. I've got a lot to learn. Kennedy's father is the rags to riches story there (new money), and JFK himself was every mother's darling, dashing successful son. The senior Bush made darn sure he was photographed cleaning his own catch at Kennebunkport, just as GW and Jeb have adopted the southern states they live in, and the lifestyles associated with the typical resident. Politics are complicated, and more touchy - feely than many would care to acknowledge. Having and showing a great intellect are two separate issues that are not necessarily mutually inclusive.

Phew! I couldn't have drunk enough of anything to keep up with that debate - Thank Goodness for our hemispheric time difference which ensured it was all resolved and back to food while I was blissfully sleeping. Now, over my early morning cuppa I feel obliged to ponder my current favourite theory of the three degrees of separation that separate any particular person and a specific food item. Adlai Stevenson and rhubarb, perhaps? Janet ← Easy he was Governor of Illinois, and there is a rhubarb festival that has been held at the Governor Small Park in Aledo, IL. http://www.rhubarbinfo.com/rhubarb-festivals.html#TOC12 I think you could use Stevenson as a link to rhubarb for others.

Ann, they TOLD us the condo had "a gourmet kitchen" but it's a POS! There is only the minimal, everything is cheap (the handle on the frypan broke this morning when we tried to flip the fritatta), and all of it is worn. There are a dozen steak knives but no paring or utility knife! Because I thought the equipment and tools would be decent, I only brought foodstuffs (spices, arborio, stock, etc...) that I didn't want to make, buy or thought I'd have trouble finding. Our friends mailed in a raclette grill so I could have sent a pot but it's too late now as we're already here! I did see pork loin at the market so I might end up using it. It will be dry though, won't it, even though it's cooked in oil? I just realized that even if I found a shoulder, I don't have a knife to clean it with! I bought a small ceramic one yesterday but I don't know whether that will work. I suppose I could use one of the steak knives.... The flavor of the dish WAS one of the things I loved about it so maybe the loin is the best way to go.... ← If that is the only thing you can find, go with it. See if you can coax some pork fat out of somebody to lard or wrap it in if you can. I would reduce the cooking time a bit, but it is hard to judge with a recipe you have prepared successfully at home in a different environment. These are all just guesses, by the way.

This phrase is memorable. It is not only exceptionally nicely turned, but also glows with a classic (not garden-variety) sort of truth. ← I think it's very gracious for someone from a country with an impeccable culinary tradition to grant equality to all others, but I beg to differ, if only because different countries value different achievements and do different things well. We Americans can surely hold our heads high in the pantheon of nations based on our achievements in many areas. But, for all the traditional excellence behind some of our cooking, it hasn't generally been a great priority during our relatively brief existence. That's just kind of the way it is and, while there's no shame in it, there's no pretending otherwise. That's not to say that you can't get great food here, highbrow and lowbrow. I think there's a strong case to be made that New York is the best food city in the West (another thread is born!) because of the sheer variety good food available at a modest price -- not to mention those gastromic temples like Per Se and Jean-George. But the fact that so many of New York's top restaurants look to France -- and that the American culinary revolution is thought by many to have begun with a restaurant that was unabashedly francophilic -- underscores the relative thinness of our culinary tradition. And, while it is possible to get great food in the U.S. -- and, tomato-for-tomato, I'd eagerly put our greenmarkets up against the ones I've found in France -- and it's easy to get bad food in France, most Americans, most meals, just don't seem to be eating that well. And they're just as happy not to. To judge a culture (if that is permitted) is not to look at the highs and lows, but at what most people are doing most of the time and dinner just isn't a priority. I spent three weeks in France this summer, eating at mid-priced restaurants (nary a Michelin star in sight) and getting some home cooking done (including a memorable lunch with our own Bleudauvergne) in the largely rural departement of Gard and along the Cote d'Azure. What was most memorable to me was how little effort was necessary to get a very good, reasonably priced meal, and to enjoy a leisurely, lengthy lunch or dinner. Brandade, crepinettes -- when you order the budget menus you find chefs doing wonderful things with inexpensive ingredients -- invariably beautifully presented and consumed at a pace that demonstrated respect for the act of dining. My second favorite place to vacation seems to have become rural Oregon and we were there the summer before last. The Portland farmer's market is an extraordinary place and I think we ate as well around the campfire on Steamboat Creek as I have almost anywhere I've ever been. But leave the campsite and try to buy dinner in town or at the pricy resort downstream, and the food is awful. And expensive. And the wines at the local general store were bad. And expensive (relatively speaking). The less said about cheese, the better. A phrase like "culinary culture" is politically loaded, so I won't say that the culinary culture of Gard is superior to that of Oregon's. And I loved the market in Portland and what small slice of the restaurant scene I was able to explore. But, on the whole, the food is better in Gard, it's less expensive, it's eaten more elegantly (?) and the people who prepare and eat it know more about it. And to pretend that that's not true, or to say that one area is the culinary equal of the other because "there is no superior culinary tradition," is just silly. The proof of the pudding, as they say, is in the eating. Why did the Arizonan wax poetic after his French vacation? Probably because the food was better -- and more delightful -- there. I actually hear that the Italians are better than the French, though. +++++ On the meritocracy vs. anti-elitism front, it's perfectly possible for America to be both. Certainly politics in my lifetime has been marked by ongoing demonization of the intellectual left by the populist right, with not inconsiderable success. Remember Mike Dukakis? Neither do I. I don't think you can get elected to high political office without a certain amount of smarts, but I think if you called George Bush an "intellectual" to his face, he'd take a swing at you. At the same time, there is a reasonable amount of upward mobility here, despite the real problems highlighted by Pan, new immigrants and poor natives have a fairly good chance to succeed on the power of their own drive and intellect. If George Bush is stereotypically dynastic, Bill Clinton grew up poor. When it comes to food, the stereotype of the snotty French Maitre d' and the French chef doing weird things to snails and organ meats still remains strong -- there's even a whiff of backlash in this thread, as though by defending the French you're a little bit of an egghead. Or maybe oeuff-head. And, while Americans remain a bit anti-elitist about French food (which, in stereotyope, is always seen as Escoffier and never as Grand-mere) our mertitocracy is rewarding restaurants whose merits tend more towards our cultural strengths -- efficiency, standardization, a kind of faux mulitculturalism, creating wealth -- and less towards what most of us would think of as culinary excellence. I was limping through Gard's local daily, Midi-Libre, trying to improve my bad French and get a feel for where I'd be vacationing (every time I buy a crappy bottle of Red Bicyclette wine from the limited selection bodega around the corner from my house, I tell myself that I'm doing it for the wine-growers of Gard, whose plight was an ongoing feature) and two local restauranteurs who'd just earned their first Michelin stars were on the front page. I can guarantee that the only way a chef would make the front page of an American daily would be to shoot someone. Outside the food section, we read about our restaurants on the business page, where earnings, not food, are the concern. Different countries. Different cultures. When it comes to food, I'll take the French as not just different, but better. +++++ One more bit of ramble before we go. (Not "rumble" this time, Tim. Rumble is better, btw). A possibly illuminating and possibly irrelevent juxtaposition of anecdotes regarding politics, culture and food. France: Francois Mitterand having a final meal days before his death, illegally eating endangered ortolans because they're apparently and extraordinary gourmet treat for the elite, while he and his companions covered their heads with napkins to (I've heard it two ways) hide their faces from the camera while they committed a criminal act or to ensure that all the aroma from the extraordinary delicacies made it from the plate to their noses. U.S.: George Bush ostentatiously eating pork rinds for the cameras to prove that despite Yale, he's just a good ol' boy. ← I love it, and must go soon, but it is funny that you are arguing that a person from France is in error concerning French Food and its superiority to other food. Bush would probably just smile, turn and walk away if you called him an intellectual, or if you intimated that his position is some sort of legacy that he just walked in and took over due to birthright. That "misunderestimation" thing is a very effective strategy. That is, if you want to think strategically. And anybody with the education, GPA higher than Kerry's, and the guts to see the issues this country has had to face through - well they deserve retirement when the time comes. But they do not deserve abuse. I think both the Bush's enjoy pork rinds, and I can relate to that on a visceral level - as do many citizens of France who like a bit of pig fat every now and then. The senior delivered a wonderful eulogy to a former President, then walked out and got a hip replaced. I don't care who you are, you don't do hip replacement surgery unless you are suffering with the one you have. Full disclosure - I am a Libertarian and do not have a dog in this silly fight that I see played out day in and day out. That being said, I vote, in any manner I please. Very rarely do I vote Libertarian, as that is just too institutionlized for my taste. I think the French are great, personally. I just don't think the rest of the world needs to grovel. There is a lot of fine food in the world, tucked away in wonderful corners, and some days Escoffier just doesn't fit the mood and climate.

I vote with Smithy, as long as you can return home with the new pot. Otherwise, use the roasting pan, or pack your own. A pork butt is as good as a shoulder. A fresh ham would work, even a loin, though with the slow preparation method that would be stretching things, but it would still taste like lovely coddled pork.

I love Southern-style greens, especially collards, although I have never made them myself. Instead, we usually stir-fry greens in a hot wok. A wide variety of greens can be stir-fried successfully, from bok choy and water spinach to Swiss chard and mustard greens. Despite very different ingredients and cooking methods, Asian and Southern flavorings for greens show interesting parallels. For example, we made mustard greens last night. Wash, dry, and trim the greens, cutting the thicker stems in half. Smash garlic cloves, chop into rough chunks, and briefly stir-fry in peanut oil (with thinly sliced chilies, if you like) over medium heat. Raise the heat to high and add the greens. When the greens are almost done (in a very few minutes), add liquid flavorings of your choice. For me, a mixture of meaty fermented soybean paste, salty fish sauce, and sour-sweet Chinkiang vinegar gives a particularly satisfying flavor. Asian and Southern cooking each complement the natural bitterness of many greens by adding meaty, unctuous, salty, sour, and sometimes hot and sweet flavors. Does anyone else find this sort of thing fascinating? If not, we now return you to your regularly scheduled programming. ← I have always been left with that impression as well. Techniques differ, but flavor profiles are amazingly similar. Witness the southern pepper infused vinegar habit for greens, for example.

Keep in mind that USDA grading is optional. It does have to be "inspected" by the USDA for wholesomeness, but there is no legal requirement that it be graded. There is much more "prime" beef sold, than butchered, inspected and bonified.

Oh I do too! But, as a recent animated feature pointed out, the cows tip back sometimes. Even if the bovine with udders speaks with a masculine voice. Haven't figured that out yet. It only seems fair.

Pork is always good with greens, but fowl is very nice as well. Collards are a year around thing, but do benefit from some cold weather. Collards are one of the most primitive of the family, but I have found that Kale will benefit from some cold weather as well. I think it has something to do with the sap in the plant. In spring, when young foragers are around and about, I can see where being bitter would make you more inclined to graze on another plant. Remedies for bitterness abound. You can rinse and stick in the freezer until the droplets freeze (I do this with Kale), saute onion and/or green pepper to sweeten up the pot. Cane syrup, corn syrup and just plain white sugar have known to be tossed in the greens if the taste test of the pot likker at the very end reveals too much bitterness. I use the yellow onion sauteed at the beginning most often. Google the greens up, and find out what greens are more bitter than others. Turnip greens are used, for example, to "cut the mustard" meaning that that turnips are sweeter than the bitter mustard. I sort of like the bitter, but that is a matter of taste. Most greens can be mixed - collards not so much for some reason. I just like them straight up. But I have produced pots of greens that use Kale as a substitute for mustard, and tossed rapini in as well. Of course, turnip greens are good on their own. Play around, this is fun and nutritious stuff.

That is honestly my favorite breakfast. The nutrional density in collard greens is greatly underappreciated, I have always thought. The turnips and mustard will be in for you soon. Have fun.

I am assuming it refers to a very well written book: http://www.amazon.co.uk/That-Sweet-Enemy-B...t/dp/0434008672 but, only Tim knows for sure. And, like the book, the thread would require having a dictionary handy. Anne Edit to add: Oh come on in Racheld, the water is fine. I am sure you have your own perspectives on cultural influences imposed upon the regular folk. You are a displaced southerner in the United States, for goodness sake. You express yourself very well.

Beet juice. Hubby loves them, but I have to sleep on the couch after an afternoon of his eating pickled eggs and drinking beer - due to the aroma. The ceiling fan has yet to be invented to overcome that particular challenge.

My larger point was simply that it's unclear to me that desirable fat characteristics in one part of a carcass necessarily mean desirable fat characteristics in all parts of the carcass. Looking at my own body, I can pretty much guarantee that the marbling of fat in meat taken from my midsection will be far greater than it would be in meat taken from my calf. ← As the proud owner of a connective tissue disease, I can back you up on that. Muscle is even connective tissue. I can tell you about various inflammations in odd places. Anything that is not itself blood or bone, falls under the general title of connective tissue, including but not limited to marrow. Fat always helps with flavor. Protein in the form of gelatin is power packed with flavor as well. It would seem a waste of money and time to search out a "prime" brisket for braising. The method is designed to get the best out of old, tough cuts of meat. I would intuitively - and I may be entirely wrong - assume that grade would be irrelavent in this situation. Breed, diet and just plain tastiness would be the target for a great pot roast. I agree that anything can be made dry with overcooking. I just wish they would quit trimming the fat so close. Some of us have to consume quite a bit of it to meet our nutritional requirements. There are upsides to certain conditions.

Every President for the last 100 years can be safely categorized as an intellectual. Some more than others, but all were pretty sharp people. They have all also had to demonstrate in words and actions that they understand the lifestyle of the typical American. This is a standard imposed by the American people. In order to be able to put a compassionate leader in a position of power, I think that standard is reasonable. Your Clinton example is particularly apt, if you want to stick with it. He was a regular guy in reality, I think it is fair to say he was disadvantaged in his youth. Yet through hard work, determination and intellect, he rose above his humble beginnings. His success was based upon merit, not birthright. Kerry lost, and is struggling in his ambitions now, because he is perceived to be an individual who believes his birthright and his membership in the well heeled Martha's Vineyard yacht club entitles him to the oval office. This is a direct result of his words and actions.