annecros

Can we revisit this issue? I was in the natural foods section of Fairway in New York City the other day, hoping to find some better grits than Quaker (which is all they sell in most NYC stores), and I stumbled across a wall of bagged grain products from Bob's Red Mill. The package says it's grits -- coarse-ground yellow corn grits -- and it also says it's polenta. "Grits-polenta" is how the product is listed in the company's catalog. Searching online, I found several places where it says that grits are hulled and polenta is not. But I'm not sure I understand. I thought hulled corn was known as hominy, and that the grits made from hominy were hominy grits. Is it not the case that, if you make grits from un-hulled corn, they're still grits -- just not hominy grits? Or is hominy part and parcel of the definition of grits? In terms of white and yellow corn, presumably grits can be made from any color of corn and still be grits. The white corn is just a majority preference, not a rule, right? ← It is my understanding that white grits are actually "Hominy Grits." That is treated with Lye and hulled. Yellow grits, particularly "speckled heart grits" are the dried and ground whole kernal. The best I have ever eaten came from the grist mill at Calloway Gardens in Georgia. Cornmeal on the other hand, is yellow or white according to the type of corn used. I've eaten many more grits and cornmeal in various grinds and preparations than I have polenta. Having said that, I have found that polenta is typically finer than grits, but not as fine as cornmeal. I find the preparations and recipes similar, and the flavor is pretty much consistent wether you call it polenta or grits. The texture is a little different, but barely. Especially if you go with a creamy preparation for grits. Fried grits and fried polenta - well, you wouldn't be able to tell the difference side by side on the same plate. Bob's Red Mill is a great product line. I think you will be happy with it. Anne

When people say it sings, they mean that crackling noise from the actual loaf when it goes on the cooling rack for the first ten minutes or so. I can hear my loaves cooling in the next room! If you got that wonderful crust, the loaf was probably talking to you! Makes great sandwich/toast/grilled cheese. Hubby is still eating it just buttered 36 hours later, so it seems to keep well. I don't think I need to buy bread unless I want Challah or something. Between this, biscuits and cornbread - I think I've got our bread needs covered. Anne Great idea with the ziplock and the tupperware. I would have worried about enough air getting to the yeast, but if it works, it works. Much neater, I bet. I live in a tropical climate, and was beginning to get an ant problem, yuck!

I was scared at first as well. I finally came to the conclusion that the most I had to loose was less than a dollar in ingredients, and even if the results were less than desirable, bread is easily recyclable. Bread crumbs in the freezer if nothing else! This recipe is hard to mess up. I have never worked with a bread recipe that was so versatile and forgiving. That being said, MelissaH's great results are what put me over the edge and got flour under my fingernails again! Anne

Thanks. The girls have newer pyrex, but corningware as well. I will advise them that it has been done. I was wondering how the clear glass, or even just a clear glass top, would effect browning, but it doesn't seem to matter and I am sure it is fun to watch. Keep us posted!

That's a great idea! Well, I'll report back on this loaf after I've experimented with freezing and reheating. Hopefully others can too. If nothing revives it appropriately for straight-up consumption, I can recycle it into stuffing, bread pudding, croutons, strata....Thank goodness for ingenious ancestors who figured out uses for less-than-pristine bread! ← Crouton! Of course, this stuff would make great crouton. Lot's of nooks and crannies.

Annecros (or anyone ), I was wondering if you could comment on the texture of the bread after freezing (especially if you've made loaves with only wheat flours). Also, do you thaw on the countertop? Reheat straight from frozen? I'm making another loaf to experiment with reheating and freezing/thawing methods. And ingredients, too . This loaf has oatmeal subbed for some of the flour and a little old dough (about 1/4 cup) incorporated. ← Well, someone else is going to have to jump in here. All I have had are heels to freeze, and I am hoarding them for dressing T-Day. If enough, maybe a small bread pudding. Will thaw out in the open for the staleness factor, of course. Wish I were more help...

Thanks for the pyrex advice. I didn't even consider Corningware, but there is a lot of it in my household and the kids. With cooler weather, I think I am going to do more WW (little less WW flour this time) and some raisin bread. Hearing about the additives in earlier posts has encouraged me (not that I needed a lot of encouragement). I baked with some manioc flour (cassava flour, tapioca flour, etc.) subbed in, but I subbed in too much. I was specifically using Polvilho azedo, or sour manioc, hoping to get a flavor boost as the cassava is fermented and the lactic acid flavor remains in the flour (have it on hand for fried chicken and for thickening a blueberry pie I made over the summer - GREAT for these applications if you have never tried it). I overdid it a bit, adding half a cup, but did get a tremendous flavor boost. Next time I go this way, I will add just a quarter cup, as my results were way too dense, and maybe a wlonger ferment. Here in extreme south florida, manioc is plentiful and cheap with the South American population here. I am hoping to get a "Pao de queijo" sort of flavor eventually, with the addition of some cheese and maybe some egg. Speaking of which, has anybody played with egg or milk yet? Our bread consumption has gone way up! I find that two loaves every other day is getting consumed pretty economically, with a bit going into the freezer every once in a while. Great fun! Anne

Question: Has anybody tried pyrex yet? My daughter and stepdaughter are both interested in the recipe, but only have pyrex in the cabinet, and would hate for them to get discouraged right out of the gate. Would love to hear about results. I'm thinking my smallest muffin pan will fit into my largest Pyrex piece, and I may be able to do dinner rolls. Maybe. If all else fails, I will take the liberty of putting cast iron on their Christmas lists. Probably a good idea anyway.

Orange. Like to tart up my pumpkin. Things are rather "Fallish" already, aren't they?

Lahey does do bread baking classes: http://www.worldtable.com/blog/06.09.25.html Most of the dates have passed, but there is a point of contact listed. I have a brother in NYC within walking distance of Hell's Kitchen, and if I had the time and some cash to burn, I would be sorely tempted. In the video, the ball looked sort of shaggy after he added the liquid, and that is what I have been shooting for. I am at 2tsp of DC kosher as well, and for my tastes I agree that I would go to 2 1/2, but my bread consuming audience (hubby, who can do a loaf and a stick of unsalted butter by himself in a couple of hours) is not big on salt. He's funny about holes as well. I can't seem to make him appreciate the large open holes and the flavor they impart. Left on my own, I would slack up the dough a bit, but he DOESN'T WANT ME TO CHANGE A THING. Stubborn and sometimes I have to pry his mind open with a crowbar, but I love him. I am sneaking some variations in on the batch working right now. Oh well, I'll have more flexibility over the holidays with the kids around, and maybe I can convert him! Anne

I used King Arthur bread flour and SAF Gold for my first experiment. I have to say that I don't quite get the "no flavor" criticism in this thread. I found the loaf to be quite flavorful for a commercial yeast leavened white wheat loaf (I did use 2 tsp of kosher salt). The crust was especially nice. That said, I'd really like to try this with a natural leaven. ← I got a nice flavor as well on the all white wheat. Yeasty. But, I am really considering subbing a cup of manioc flour in the next day or two. I love Pao de Queijo, and I think the manioc would add a nice sourish taste element. Also considering Masa as a flavor carrier. Then of course there is good old Rye, a family favorite with the guys in my home. Also kicking around a sweet bread variation, such as raisin. All that will be down the road. I only have two pots that I feel are appropriate for this recipe on hand (maybe a third if you count the pyrex, but that idea scares me), but I haven't baked two loaves at a time yet. Good thing Thanksgiving is coming up. Something tells me by the time I am done playing around I will have a quantity of bread crumbs to use up. I bet this would make a killer bread pudding, come to think of it! I'm having fun with this, I must admit. Anne

You are so right! It is like comparing pie crusts, cakes or biscuits. Mama's, Granny's and Aunt Grace's are all very different and distinct. But it's all good! It is very nice though, speaking from my own experience, to be able to once again produce a homemade loaf of bread, with a very forgiving recipe that yields good results, for my family. I think the biggest advantage here is making bread baking very accessable, to those who have physical limitations as well as those who are inexperienced. Bread has a certain aura of mystery about it. Honestly, it is just flour, salt and yeast with some water tossed in, a bit of time and patience to boot, but it is so amazingly good and satisfying! Anne

Denser than the all Bread Flour version, but not what I would consider a dense loaf of whole wheat bread. Lots of bounce in the texture, which is very pleasing to the tooth, and not what you would necessarily expect from that much whole wheat. I was concerned that I was overdoing it with the WW flour with 30% (although with the scoop and tap, who knows), but now that I have eaten a couple of more slices, it feels almost right. I am not baking tomorrow, but will probably do Whole Wheat version 2.0 the day after, to see if this is reproducable. I've been a long time away from bread baking as well, and things like the feel of the dough are coming back with each successive loaf. Tasty, hearty. Wish I could hand you a slice!

Ok, 1 cup Whole Wheat, 2 cups Bread Flour. Bread Flour was just Pillsbury's Best, off the shelf and aged in my cabinet. Did splurge on the Whole Wheat, Arrowhead Mills stone ground. Scoop and shake down. Quarter teaspoon of Fleischmann's Rapid Rise. Two teaspoons of Diamond Crystal Kosher salt. Stirred up vigorously with the hand. Dumped in a cup of water, and incorporated, added additional water until it made a ball. Covered and ignored for 18 hours. Dumped out on floured silpat, patted it on its head, floured surface, folded four times, floured folded side, inverted on 100% cotton kitchen towel, floured surface, threw another 100% cotton kitchen towel on top. Ignored for an hour and a half. Preheated oven at 450 with empty Descoware 4.5 quart covered casserole inside for 30 minutes. Dumped seam side up into blazing hot pot, shook it up a little, covered and ignored for 30 minutes at 450. Uncovered pot and ignored for another 30 minutes at 450. Dumped it on a rack, and allowed to cool for 3 hours. Whole loaf: Bottom of Loaf: Sliced Loaf: Sliced Loaf with Unwashed Descoware Pot: Hubby likes, but he is a bread pig! I must admit, it is a heartier bread. The crust did not suffer a bit. The interior was still elastic and very moist, but holes were smaller and more evenly distributed. There was almost NO yeast flavor, which I sort of like in a perverse way, compared to the all bread flour version. As I mentioned before, there was a lot more tension in the dough. I think this would make a great sandwich.

Now see, this is much looser than what I am getting. But as I said before, I am not measuring the liquid (I know, fat lotta good that does everybody) but rather just moistening the flour until it balls up. For what it is worth, I am having no trouble folding, and leaving no dough on the well floured towel, although my fermentation resembles yours texturally, if that makes sense (?). I have noticed unincorparated flour in several pictures and one mention. I have not experienced this as of yet personally. Has anyone else had this come up? I am pretty aggressively hand mixing (I am not shy with getting my hands dirty) both the dry ingredients and incorporating the liquid, though. Have you tried that lovely blue casserole? Looks like the equivalent of the casserole I am using. I said LC earlier, but it is actually Descoware. No plastic. The whole wheat is out and cooling, and has sung its song. As soon as hubby comes home, will photograph and slice. It is interesting, in that it did not flatten out as much as the all bread flour version, but bounced up taller. More tension with the whole wheat introduction? The folds are very visible on the exterior of the baked loaf. Will be interesting to check out the interior. The crust looks fine, a little darker than the all bread flour version, but with the same texture and appearance. This does seem to be a very forgiving recipe indeed. And considering my personal bread making skills, that is exactly what I require! Anne

Yeah, but what about the creature that comes out of the oven? Any (significant, predictable) difference? ← One thing at a time! I just got up the gumption to dump whole wheat in there! In the oven and smelling lovely, right now. Anticipation building. That's the thing about this community. Everyone can report back on their own experiences, and the total is greater than the sum of the parts!

Well, not a real baker, but in my opinion, the creature that comes out of the 18 hour fermentation, and the creature that comes out from under the folded towel two hours later, are entirely different in appearance and characteristics. I am inclined to agree with you and Alana.

I've done two loaves now, and was very satisfied with the results. Now that I have it going, it will be a regular routine until my attention span runs out! I followed the video closer than I followed the recipe. I scooped my flour and shook it down, and did up the salt to 2 tsps. I sort of just added the water until it formed a ball, starting with a cup of water then adding a tablespoon or two at a time until it held together. At first, I was afraid that the dough would be too stiff, but after it worked out its 18 hours, it was perfectly foldable. Sorry no pictures, the camera batteries were dead. I used the 4.5 quart oval LC, it was plenty roomy enough for the loaf and I think the smaller size helps the spring. And the spring was AMAZING! The crackling crust and flavor were wonderful, and a lovely moist interior. My holes aren't as big as others, but they are plentiful and well distributed, and there are enough largish ones that I can see where if I slacked the dough a little more they would open up better. Hubby was very skeptical when he saw some of the pictures, because he felt it was too "holey" for his tastes. He's a dense bread guy, but he really loved the crust and the moist texture of the interior and is now sold on this method. Last night I subbed one part of whole wheat to two parts bread flour, and that will go in the oven this afternoon. My european husband prefers a grainier bread, so some rye is in the future as well. For a man who was raised on daily trips to the bakery, his quick consumption and praise meant a lot to me! I bought new batteries yesterday, so will be able to add pics this afternoon hopefully. If hubby doesn't devour this bread as quickly as he did the other two loaves! It is really nice to be baking bread again. I had sort of given up hope a couple of years back when my arthritis made it difficult for me to jump through the typical bread baking hoops. I feel like I'm back in the saddle! Anne Edit! Stop the presses, hubby helpfully snapped a shot of the heel of yesterday's bread before breakfast this AM and left it on the desktop! Great guy. Here is yesterday's: Will post the Whole Wheat version later today.

That caught my attention as well when he was using the measuring cups. I thought he used a dry measure for the liquid, and it appears to be all shot in one take. Will check back tomorrow for your "Internal" investigation MelissaH, and thanks for doing the dirty work and blazing a trail. He also said "one and half" when measuring the water, so the adjustment in the recipe to one and five eights may have been some sort of compensation. I want to sub some rye flour into the recipe in the future, if this works out for me.

So many emotions play into the mother and child relationship! And people are getting tired of the kiddy challenges on "Top Chef!" I suspect those that are getting tired of the challenge, have never been challenged with pleasing the palate of a child. You never know with kids. I was lucky that both of mine were "good eaters" and tried a bunch of different things, but that didn't mean they wouldn't assert themselves and their personalities in other areas. As an empty nester, and veteran mother and stepmother, they really will not starve, even my chicken breast and green bean stepdaughter. That was literally all she would eat until 8, not even sweets. Now she's married to a chef, and eats an amazing array of food at 27. They are people, with their own likes and dislikes, and you can only do the best you can. Saying all that, there is an incredible amount of external pressure on the parent that is simply unfair. Many who advise are well meaning, but just have no concept. They would mind their own business seeing an adult scarf down an order of fries, but tsk-tsk and frown seeing a child eating the same.

Lovely MelissaH. That was what I was hoping to see.

I think he was using enamel on cast iron, but I also heard him mention in the video that pyrex could be used, or even cast iron. I think the issue with the pot has to do with taking the high heat and the cover. I am not sure Pyrex would have the same sort of heat rentention qualities that cast iron does, but it might bring something else to the table in reference to the moisture rentention that I am not getting. Pyrex also generally comes with a clear lid, and I am wondering how that will affect browning. I do know that my LC will brown the top of items. I am mixing my dough today, and will report back tomorrow. I am looking forward to hearing from everyone else!

I can't speak to the Cantonese, but there has always been much less deep frying in the south than is commonly perceived. There are huge regional differences, as well. I would say a southern family that does a lot of deep frying would eat that way twice a week at the very most. Once every 10 to 14 days would be more the norm in my neck of the woods, the deep south as in Southwest Georgia. Fried chicken really is a once or twice a month treat, and has been for as long as I can remember. Fish fry is a real special occurance, maybe once a quarter. The batter dipped okra everyone thinks of is unusual, and was never prepared in that manner in my home as I was raised, or in my relatives or homes of family friends. It was rather pan fried, actually a saute almost. Green tomatoes came around once or twice a year. It was more common in our household growing up to use green tomatoes in omelettes. Vegetables were almost never deep fried. In fact, I remember more boiled, creamed, mashed or baked potatoes than french fries. Boiling, braising, roasting, pan frying, grilling and smoking. That's what I remember most. Now bacon fat and butter figure prominently, but that's not the question. My opinion only, and based solely upon personal experience. Anne

I noticed this happening at Publix early this year. The "Greenwise" line, organic, seems to be doing very well, and they repackaged all of thier regular store brand items. My favorite new item is the Publix brand parchment paper. 30 square feet for $1.40 or so. I've noticed that the store brand sour cream and butter are better than previous, as well.

Betty should have gone home, IMO, following the Otto precedent. I don't think Betty committed less of a sin than Otto, and considering that this was "Camp Glucose" and I do know that at least one child was diabetic, it really should have been driven home the issues a "little bit" of sugar could have introduced into the situation. I liked the challenges. As a chef, who knows when you are going to get that diner in a party of 20 for a special event, that has some dietary restrictions that are health related and reasonable to accomidate with a bit of knowledge. I was also appalled at the ignorance of the contestants concerning calories and sugar content of ingredients. As one opined, you may as well use butter in some circumstances rather than olive oil, depending on the situation. The vending machine challenge actually produced some interesting solutions.