annecros

Me. In fact I have two rib steaks mariniating, hubby took a Cealice this AM (it isn't called the "weekender" for nothing) and I am proud and happy to report that I eat and have sex, and both are not just "good" or "satisfying" or whatever, they are what makes me get up in the AM and makeup probably at least 8 of the top ten wonderful things that have happened to me. I did give birth to two children. There would be something wrong with me if I didn't feel that way. The survey is incredibly slanted, in that it puts a negative connotation upon the question asked.

But polls aren't supposed to be "greatly enjoyable"...though I do have friends who do love to crawl into the cross-tabs on a slow afternoon. ← We need for food for sustenance and sex for procreation. We share these needs with all other forms of life, including plants and bacteria. Where did the idea originate that either could or should be "greatly enjoyable"? SB (not that I mind) ← If these things were not meant to be delightful, why did we evolve (or why were we endowed by our creator) with the capacity -- indeed, the deep urge -- to enjoy them so, well, greatly? Not being able to do so strikes me as an indication that one's life is out of balance, a kind of culinary Koyaanisqatsi, if you will. Moreover, the reason enjoyment seems to be declining is not because of a philosophical reorientation towards the stoic and ascetic -- not my style, but laudable, nonetheless -- but a psychological binge-purge cycle based on unwholesome food and unresolved guilt. It's a sign of emotional decay, an inability to prioritize and and lack of intellectual discipline -- another sign of the apocalypse, another indication of Western Civilization's decline, another brick in the wall. ← OMG. You mean the world is coming to an end right now because people don't want to screw and eat? I would remind you that there is nothing new under the sun. Its been done before, so chin up, don't slit your wrists, and yes, life is worth living as long as you can screw and eat. I think too much is made of this. I must not allow myself to be distracted. ETA: I can see why you are still bussing tables, grasshopper. Now try to catch this stone while I get dinner ready for my husband.

My, my I had almost forgotten! I did go to "charm school" for awhile. It ended with this conversation: Me: "We had a lot of fun at charm school today!" Father: "Really? What did you do?" Me: "We learned how to gracefully climb out of the back seat of a Mustang." Father: "You don't need to know how to get out of the back seat of a Mustang. You'd better not be getting into the back seat of a Mustang." Although my husband is in the process of restoring a '67 ragtop, I am now to old to get in, or out, of the back seat of a Mustang --without help from a crane. Life is just full of missed opportunities, isn't it? ← I went to charm school as well. And ballet class. And I AM DAR and UDC. Lost my virginity on the hood of a green buick skylark parked behind a warehouse late at night in an industrial park. He did bring a blanket. And a bottle of wine. And professed his love for me most eloquently. He was out of the picture about a year later. What missed opportunities? For all the lipstick, veneer of manners, coquettish eyelash batting, there is a steel rod that runs up the spine of every southern lady I have ever known. I wouldn't want to try and pull anything off on her...

So, I am guessing you never read the "Diary of a Failed Southern Lady" from Florence King. Please do so, and put the failure and martyrdom, and stuff aside. She will explain. And there are quite a lot of references to food in the book, because of her shared southern background. I pissed my pants. Funny.

Oh, I love this thread. I am a gritty girl. Very grits like. "Pretty is", is just prettiness. Pretty doesn't put the groceries on the table. I don't care what I look like, it's your problem if you don't like it. Although, there are a couple of people who like the way I look. Not TOO hard on the eyes, and kinda interesting. Sort of like the "Idgie" character from Fried Green. Remember, the secret is in the sauce. Never had a problem gettin' a date, neither. Don't like it? Well then I'll just have to whup you till you do. You'll like it then.

Ahem. I am a donor, and I may be able to hook you up with a Macaroni Grill in your area, should you consider posting further. I have made certain inquiries. Seriously. Good food there at the Macaroni Grill. All depends. You must keep posting. And, I am a donor. And by the way, the gates of heaven are composed entirely of the spun sugar that the skillfull carny lifts out of the magic bin onto the paper cone when you are five years old at the fair. At least, that is what I would like to think. And all of heaven smells of the fresh spun sugar. Wonderful fair food.

Actually, none of the above. It would be "wages." I don't think customers should have that much power. People who do a job should get paid for it. Every single time they perform their job functions, regardless of whether a customer judges they were good or bad on some purely subjective scale. Because even on my worst day on the job, I still get paid. My experience (not scientific) is that the people who go over 20% would still do so, even if the baseline service was included. Believe me, I know my attitude isn't the norm! ← Well, it is good that you understand that it is not the norm, because if you tip 20 per regardless, you have been bagged, tagged and marked. No doubt about it. All it takes is one server to say, "Wow, they got crummy service and STILL left 20%!" in a screechy voice. And, sadly, some servers cannot resist. After that, you are no longer an anony face in the crowd. You will be subjected to good service, because if you do 20 for bad, I mean hey! Seat them in my section! So funny, the way the world rolls around.

Yes, you're correct. I believe the discussion then evolved into tipping in general and that's how the debate about quality of service vs. gratuity started. ← I would still like to understand how a research person objectified something as subjective as "good service" in order to establish a baseline for his study. Any server that has more than one table in their section can explain to you that each and every table has a subjective notion of what "good service" is or is not. I am struggling with this sort of thing right now with a proposal I am drafting for some retail produce business. The contract people evaluatiing the proposal are insisting upon placing objective standards upon produce. Anyone who has ever purchased produce, I think, understands that it is a very subjective activitiy. Do you want a banana that is green, just showing color, yellow and mellow, or mushy? Same thing with service in a restaurant. Do you want to drink a bottle of wine before the appys, or just a cocktail? Do you want time between appy and entree for another cocktail, or do you want the entree slammed down on the table as soon as you finished the last bite of the salad? Do you want time to take a smoke break between courses? There are these peppers from a local grower that are magnificent, boxy shaped with thick walls, but more expensive than peppers that ya just chop up and toss into the pan to flavor the dish and are all funky shaped. If you are making stuffed peppers, the answer is easy. If not, do you want to pay the extra? I have to sell the more expensive boxy peppers. I think I have an angle on it though. Entirely subjective. Difficult to measure. I would find the data interesting. And I consider the 20% baseline mentioned earlier as entirely voluntary. I know that my customers in the past generally considered it so. I would guess that if you went into a restaurant and consistently tipped 20% regardless, you would be treated as a great customer and the servers would be falling all over themselves to wait on you. Bribe, gratuity, grease or tip?

I didn't see the earlier thread, and have no idea upon what research the conclusion that quality of service has no bearing on the tip was gathered from, but the conclusioin is unbelievable to me, personally. Anecdotal or not, I can't buy it. I know that better servers get better tips.

This whole "cut in line" thing is rather illusory, as well. When there is a wait at a restaurant, there is no "line", there is a funnel with a full top. You are a party of two, you get on the wait list in front of a party of four and a party of eight. A table that sits four becomes available. The party of four is seated ahead of you. You are seated when the next table that cannot be drug over to accomodate the party of eight becomes available, a table that only seats two becomes available, or if someone checks your wait time and decides you have been waiting "too long" and "we'd better get them seated or they are going to get mad." The party of eight will usually see the two parties ahead of them seated, then probably two or three parties at least that get there after them are seated. A walk in eight top can expect a long wait in a busy restaurant, no matter who they tip, bribe, or grease. If you are a party of two, and want that table for four that becomes available before a table for two becomes available, well then some consideration is probably in order, and you have to decide how bad you want it and to what lengths you will go to to get it. If they try to seat you immediately, and you know there is a wait, but it is a crummy little table for two in a high traffic restaurant, you take it or politely offer to go on the wait list until a better table becomes available, or offer some consideration for that nice booth that seats four that just needs bussing. That is, if it matters that much to you. I just make a reservation, and if I know the layout of the place I might ask for a table in a specific area, I do have servers that I like in some places. Otherwise, I just go to the bar, and drink until I am called. Sometimes, by then ALL the tables look good! Then there are the "no reservations taken" places. Get there early, and be nice to people, and bring your patience. Those chains are run with an iron fist, and if you observe the layout and decor when you arrive, it is very difficult to determine from the lobby where, what kind, and how many tables are open from the door. Seats and turns and plates. Isn't it a wonderful world!

Well, I know that seems like a simple solution, but if you look at it closely, it would bring the prices up 40 to 50 percent, at least. Possibly even more. Restaurants run on a slim margin as it is. You would have additional administrative costs to cover, then there is the additional FICA and unemployment taxes that would have to be covered, then you would have to leave enough for it to be worth the server's time to make the paycheck competitive with what a tipped server is earning at another establishment. Then there are the bartenders and kitchen help. I didn't even get into that can of worms. The best thing about being a server, honestly, is going home at the end of a hard night with cash in your pocket. It really is a good job for some people, in some circumstances. On top of it all, tipping is so ingrained in the culture, it would happen anyway. Some will tip, others won't. I got out of the food service industry about 20 years ago, but still have close relatives involved at several levels. And honestly, it isn't that different from the complexities in the coporate world that I "escaped" too. In fact, the dog eat dog environment in a typical busy office is just as complex concerning work relationships, bonuses, raises, and who gets the nicer work area or computer.

Generally, the host or hostess does not do the work of a Captain or MD. Two completely different animals. The MD or Captain spends all day at the business, takes the reservations personally and assists the party with planning if it is a special evening, knows the names and preferences of regulars or club members or resort guests. Trains the wait staff, runs the floor all night, and generally is paid somewhere around 30k in salary, maybe more depending upon the establishment and the local economy. They generally have about 10 years in the front of the house under their belts, and are responsible for all operations in the front of the house, including the wait staff. The host or hostess generally is a pregnant server, or a person who wants to be a server who is too young to serve liquor, or maybe a server that needs a few more hours and is filling in as host. They arrive right before the dinner rush, try to keep track of open tables, try not to double seat servers, don't do sidework, and leave as soon as the dinner rush is over. They make minimum wage plus about a buck. They are directly supervised by a manager. They support the wait staff much more in the same manner as the busboy supports the wait staff. Trust me, I have seen individual servers tip a busboy or host out of pocket personally to get them to do their salt and peppers or polish their silverware for them so they can get out at the end of the night quicker. There are even some cases of tipping out for preferential treatment from the busboy or hostess directly, but the other servers usually manage to suss this situation out pretty quick, and handle it amongst themselves. Other servers frown upon this particular practice, as sections and seatings are territories that are well protected. Tip share, in my experience, is generally figured upon sales, though there are some exceptions. Therefore, it may cost the server more in tip share to wait a particular table than they earned in tips off of it, or conversely if they have a good night, they tip out a much lower percentage of tips than they actually pocketed, because the customers tipped better than the standard 15% (or whatever) of sales that the server is expected to tip into tip share. I know, it can be very confusing for the customer.

Sorry to drag you back out of lurking but maybe you'll be the one to answer my upthread questions. So the hostess in the article who you said was tipped, not bribed, for a table, would she be expected to add $20 to the tip-pool, if the restaurant uses that system? Would she would be held to the same standards as a server who is tipped via a credit card? Would the bus-person who cleared the table receive a share? My impression from the responses on this thread is that what has been called bribing is much more secretive and that workers don't treat this income as they do wages and tips that come after service. IF that's the case, I don't see how it's being practiced ethically. No matter what it's called. No matter how many people do it. Also, what's the difference in principle between a salesperson naming his/her "best price" to a customer on a coveted, limited-basis item, that's on top of the purchase price, and then pocketing the difference? "Look, keep this between you and me, but I'll give you $xx if you put my name first on the list for the Toyota hybrid." Again, maybe I'm reeaaally naive and this happens all the time. Do you think the business owner would have a hands-off attitude about it? Not the preferential treatment, but the unregulated pocketing by the employee. Um, your Torah source reads to me like the restaurant hostess would be discounting the price of the table, not charging extra. ← OK, I'll take the bait. Let's see if you can reel me in and land me. In a perfect world, everybody would make exactly the same amount of money, do exactly the same amount of work, and the Captain would keep track of where you were sitting the last six times you visited the restaurant so that you would not get the good table every time and do your proper penance at the table by the restrooms in order to "pay" for that good table you got a month ago. In a perfect world, servers would work for minimum wage, and restaurant owners would make enough money to pay then minimum wage, and minimum wage would be enough to pay for day care, groceries and books and everything would be la-de-da happy in restaurant land. In a perfect world, every penny tipped in every restaurant anywhere in the world would be divided evenly over the entire staff. The only reason the best servers are out there are serving, and make it up the food chain to captain, is strictly because of the tips. It is not the sore feet, bad back, sometimes abusive customer, going home at 3 AM after you just got done polishing silverware minimum wage after you purchased your own uniform "regular" part of the job. Comparing these low income people, and the Captain is not making a whole heck of a lot more than most of the staff and is honestly not tipped as often (though he does much more ancillary work for the restaurant) to coporate graft is a bit outrageous. Don't you think? I don't begrudge a hardworking person a $20. Umm, did I not demonstrate, via OUTSIDE sources (not the results of my personal research, but that done by travel advisors) that tipping the MD is appropriate depending upon the circumstances and customary practice in those circumstances? Did I also not demonstrate that tipping ANYONE is a purely voluntary action? If you don't believe in it, don't do it. But, I am not understanding how you might manage to enforce your own restraint upon others. It is a free country, and tipping the captain is not illegal, no matter how many times you call it a bribe. And, once again, it is a voluntary practice. The torah reference came from Wikki, not myself. I do, however, receive a baker's dozen of bagels when I visit my favorite shop every two to three weeks. I am polite, smile, and always drop the change in the tip cup. They are nice people. Even the owner, who told me how nice it was to see me last week, and dropped me a Baker's Dozen and one more.

Is the US capitalistic first, democratic second? Someone mentioned the practice in China of people giving their doctors money before surgery, and someone else mentioned countries where bribery is a daily part of life. Most of the people participating in this topic are, I believe, American. I'd like to hear more from people in other countries. I currently live in Japan, and as far as I know it doesn't happen commonly here (I'm specifically referring to giving money in order to get better service from waitstaff or others in the service industry--bribery happens here in big business here all the time). However, tipping doesn't happen here, either. ← Great question. I do believe we are a country of good tippers. As far as capitalist vs. democratic, if the majority practices a custom, does it not become the majority rule and very democratic?

It may be hard to find as a word because the concept was viewed so differently in the past. Patronage was the rule in ancient Rome from what I understand. You pay me this, you give me that, I'll protect you. The ruling class, for example, earned no salaries because it was assumed they got their cut out all transactions in their domain. Anyway, I don't think it's a system to aspire to, nor are we as laissez-faire about bribery in general. Today, it has a perjorative cast, as is demonstrated here by the desire to twist this thread into a discussion about tipping. Which it's not. ← But, sliding the maitre d' some lettuce is tipping, is customary in certain circumstances. Just because a perjorative term was used in the initial post for the practice, does not make it not tipping. Just by calling it a bribe, makes it no less a "gratuity." http://www.tipping.org/tips/TipsPageRestaurant.html http://money.cnn.com/2002/03/19/pf/saving/travel/q_tipping/ http://www.findalink.net/tippingetiquette.php http://hotels.about.com/od/hotelsecrets/a/tipping.htm http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tipping Number One: It is voluntary. If you find tipping the captain offensive, then don't do it. Number Two: It is appropriate according to various social situations and conditions. Number Three: Call it a nasty name all you like, but the tip does not appear to be in danger of becoming extinct. As far as etymology is concerned: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tipping#Etymology "The Oxford English Dictionary states that it is derived from the English thieves' slang word tip, meaning "to pass from one to another." The notion of a stock tip or racing tip is from the same slang. Another possible source for this term is a concept from Judaism that it is a chiyuv (obligation) for a seller to "tip the scales" in favor of the customer. The Torah says, "Nosen lo girumov (Give to him a tip)." For example, if your customer has asked for three pounds of onions, you should measure out the three pounds plus one extra onion, tipping the scale in his favor [2]. An urban legend states that the word "tip" is an acronym for terms such as "to insure prompt service", "to improve performance", and "to insure promptness". However, in addition to using "insure" when "ensure" is meant, this etymology contradicts the Oxford English Dictionary [3] and is probably an example of a backronym or apronym." Now, I will return to lurk for a time.

Gee, it's fun. ← Yep, when it works, it works! Mystical. And much fun.

We are agreeing entirely too much here sneakeater. The planets must be aligned...

always ← Yep. BIG tip. Usually you get another.

In fact -- I hope this doesn't sound too ugly -- I'll bet this is why some of us think the bribery is sleazy. At this point in my life, at least in the kinds of places I like to go to, I can usually get good tables just be dressing well and acting confidently. It seems like people like all of us shouldn't have to resort to such expedients as greasing palms. ← Interesting. I think that perhaps it is all an issue of being polite, and understanding. Unless you have a big deal riding on it, and then, well, all bets are off. Understandable.

If you're seated next to the rest room (and it's obviously a crappy table) it's going to be pretty obvious that you're going "economy" whether prices are posted or not, isn't it? ← Maybe she'll just assume that they've been given a bad table because she looks too dowdy. ← It's a small small world where the restaurant (supposedly) revolves around the attractiveness or not of their patrons. This is a newfound and curious caste system of how close to the john are you?? Who puts their self worth in the hands of a matre-d? Y'all are thinking (and therefore revealing) way way way too much. Are you serious? I mean I think it's funny and lighthearted to think and say that you get a good table 'cause you're 'looking good' tonight as well as true sometimes. But deciding that the opposite is true is sad to pathetic. Umm, ugly fat poor people who can't wear heels can tip as well or better or not than the others. What are you guys even talking about? ← LOL Yes, the truth hurts some people some times. Sure, I have pampered fried catfish eating sweet tea drinking great tippers who were overweight and in polyester. For goodness sake, they are just people. They asked for me when they came in. I kept the tea glass full. Took care of my day care bill all on thier own. Was on a first name basis with several of them. Back in the day, but believe me they were Godsent customers. I still have a fondness for them, and will be forever grateful Money makes the world go around. Why would somebody dress in a tux shirt and serve fried catfish otherwise?

If it's not immoral, or at least, well, sleazy, then why is it hidden? Why would one bother to palm the bill, or make an effort to be nonchalant about the transaction? Do the service people who accept bribes declare them on their taxes? Is the perk that he is selling actually his to sell in the first place? ← Heh. Since when did service people ever pay taxes on tips? Never. You may like it or not, but that is the reality. The mandatory 8% of sales claimed did nothing to resolve this issue. If anything, it made the situation worse, considering the customary 20% of sales that is tipped. Of course, there are those stiffs who wouldn't tip a single mother on her feet all night busting her bottom to serve them if their life depended upon it. It is the nature of the industry, and the risk you take when you knowingly accept a service position. Service people are paid less than minimum because they make tips. I cannot make a moral judgement one way or the other concerning the exchange of cash for service, because it is a private transaction between the two parties.

Wanted to thank everyone again for the great ideas! The grill with the Ponzu sauce was fantastic. There are just not enough words to describe how wonderful, easy and versatile this recipe is! I especially liked the sweet/spicy flavor complexity, which reminds me very much of the carribbean food served in the area. I juiced fresh valencia and key limes (which I intend to buy up, juice and freeze before the season is over) and prepared it with a couple of swordfish steaks, a large mahi filet, and a couple of chicken breasts I had in the freezer just to give it a spin. It really, really, really hit the spot on the swordfish. We have been sort of boycotting billfish for the last few years, but hubby officially lifted the moritorium for this dish. It was nearly as good on the mahi and the chicken. I also had to substitute daikon for the jicama in the slaw. I know jicama is available, and will prepare it again with the jicama, but I couldn't put my hands on it the other day. I think I prepared it too far ahead, because it was looser than I thought it would be. Husband described it as "salsa" like in texture. But it was very refreshing, and I think it is the perfect foil for the grilled fish. Thanks for this suggestion torakris, and everyone else out there ought to give this recipe a try. It certainly boosted my confidence level, and it was a great meal. I purchased some "ready to eat" edimame, and they were incredibly tasty, and I think this is a keeper as well. I wanted to get an idea of the finished product before I made it from scratch. I have some fresh in the fridge, and will be trying it out tonight, but there is no doubt in my mind that this would make an interesting nibbler. ludja, those recipes sound great. PLEASE pm me that crescent cookie recipe. My husband's Oma used to make them for him (he was her "golden" child) when he was little, and I have tried two or three recipes that just sort of left him flat. Will be horsing around with the cookies over the next week or so. So far, I'm looking at a tentative menu of: Nibblers to be kept out and replenished as needed: Edamame Cookie Plate Maybe some boiled peanuts, alongside the edamame Appetizers: Conch Fritters (must do it, it is the Conch Republic, and I am thinking of doing a mustard sauce alongside in addition to the traditional cocktail sauce you see all over the place) "Relish" Tray (with pimiento cheese stuffed celery, pickles and marinated vegetables from all the cultures - I do my own southern style pickles, and can handle the Italian and German, but any Japanese recomendations for inclusion would be greatly appreciated. Every culture pickles or preserves something) Hubby wants my crab stuffed mushroom caps, and I do them Itialian style (I'll prepare, pick and freeze the crab ahead of time). Tuna is out, after talking to my purveyers Maybe a couple of dozen oysters, if I can find any, just to keep hubby quiet Main: Grilled Swordfish (or Mahi or Kingfish in a pinch) and grilled chicken breasts with Ponzu Baked pasta dish, possibly veggie in nature Miso Slaw Wine: Piesporter or Reisling Dessert: Kaffee with homemade vanilla ice cream Probably a Franfurter Kranz, will test this weekend. I wonder if the Frankfurter Kranz is sturdy enough to do with a sprinkling of Kirschwasser? Thanks again everyone. As always, any suggestions are always welcome. You guys are great! Anne

Love it. My man sits down on the couch, 5 minutes after a great dinner that he has stuffed himself to the gills on, full of fat and other wonderful stuff, and then he: Downs a QUART of Hagen Dazs in one sitting and about 10 to 15 minutes time elapsed from dinner. He's all man too. I sleep with him every night. Maybe it is the speed of fat consumption that makes it manly?

Thanks Tora! Good advice. Concerning the Edamame, when you say boil in salted water, do you mean a full blown brine or more the salt level for potatoes or pasta? Also, what sort of texture are you looking for in the finished product? Should the beans pop or crunch in your mouth, or softer? I can get them fresh all over the place right now. Will have to discuss with the produce people locally to determine how seasonal they are in the area, but frozen was plentiful as well when I checked yesterday. We have a very large, vital Japanese community in the area, which is nice. The Morikami Museum is 10 minutes away from my home. http://www.morikami.org/ Wonderful things are done with orchids and pineapple in the area within the community, and I always take out of town guests to the Morikami, and to Butterfly World in a neighboring county. Anne ETA: Also, I got a page not found message when I tried to pull up the miso slaw, which intrigues me. I mean, the Germans and the Southerners know all about slaw, so it will be familiar enough that they will try. Could you give me a general idea? Also, the recipe for the salmon looks like it would adapt well to Mahi. Mahi-Mahi or Dolphin Fish (not the mammal) is probably the most readily available fresh fish in the area, not quite as oily as tuna, a little bit stronger than most salmon with a very salmon/tuna sort of texture. I think it could work, and on the east coast of the US Mahi is associated very strongly with the Keys, and it grills very well. Thanks again for allowing me to pick your brain. I cannot believe how nice and helpful everyone here is. Hopefully, I will have the opportunity to return the favor one day. ETA: OK, I think I found the slaw somewhere else. Is this it? http://www.freddyandeddy.com/recipes/salmonponzu.htm Looks yummy to me. I like the citrus in the Ponzu sauce as well. Kind of gives it a Florida feel.

Wow, hubby's German is still good enough to translate that. Looks like I would need to pull out my Dr. Oetker stuff, and buy that kitchen scale I have coveted for some time now anyway. Thanks. ← I would definitely recommend Dr. Oetker, if you have it. I go to Germany about every two months, so I am constantly restocking my pantry with things I can't find here. ← Yeah, I got a crash course in Dr. Oetker when I married into this family. The first Christmas after we were married, I got a box with a Dr. Oetker cookbook, a metric Dr. Oetker measuring cup, and a wide assortment of Dr. Oetker products. I am very fond of the chocolate pudding with vanilla sauce. I have been surprised at the number of Dr. Oetker products popping up in the grocery stores down here over the last year or two, so should be no problem. I wouldn't know where else to get vanilla sauce powder. Who was Dr. Oetker anyway? ETA: I forgot, we are driving down with two vehicles, one a Blazer, the othe a small economy car. We only live about three hours away from the destination, so I could practically take my whole kitchen if I had to. Of course then you have to keep track of everything and pack up to come back. We are planning to stay an extra day at the resort after the festivities, just to bum around.