SobaAddict70

I'm still wondering. ← Touché.

?If Mr. Fine's intent was to attract attention, he certainly did it in spades. Soba edited for clarity and partially in response to Tess' post above. ← Well, for one thing it tells you where the author (FG) is coming from. He's originally a lawyer and the case study is a very "lawyerly" thing. It's an investigatory device used elsewhere (think business schools), but this is where FG was exposed to it. You understand the book better by understanding the author. Of all the quibbles one could have with gaf's review, I think that this is a very minor one. ← JPW -- It might be a relatively minor point, but it adds nothing to the review, in my opinion. It's inclusion is almost irrelevant. I don't know about you but an analysis of a book that's less about the author and his proclivities and more about the content shouldn't be too difficult to pull off. Yours, Soba ← Now THAT, my friend, does not seem like an objective opinion given your overall reaction to the work. ← No, but it's an honest desire. I haven't seen the reviews by the New Yorker et al., but I would imagine those approach the bar I've indicated above. I hope. Yours, Soba

?If Mr. Fine's intent was to attract attention, he certainly did it in spades. Soba edited for clarity and partially in response to Tess' post above. ← Well, for one thing it tells you where the author (FG) is coming from. He's originally a lawyer and the case study is a very "lawyerly" thing. It's an investigatory device used elsewhere (think business schools), but this is where FG was exposed to it. You understand the book better by understanding the author. Of all the quibbles one could have with gaf's review, I think that this is a very minor one. ← JPW -- It might be a relatively minor point, but it adds nothing to the review, in my opinion. It's inclusion is almost irrelevant. I don't know about you but an analysis of a book that's less about the author and his proclivities and more about the content shouldn't be too difficult to pull off. Yours, Soba

We must not inhabit the same forums.... Here's one such example. All right, you might be correct about the rarity of objectivity vis-a-vis reviews. I suppose it might be more appropriate to say that a reviewer should give the lie to the appearance of objectivity. Mr. Fine's review fails on this note in my opinion. There are a million ways to say "it was mediocre" or "this failed to live up to a set of expectations." Whereas some might see a scintillating piece of prose, this reader sees a piece of work that leaves no doubt as to where the reviewer's biases lie. We know he doesn't care for some of the book's conclusions, and we know he's not a fan of the current mayor of New York. It is what it is. I've just started the book, so I can't give you an opinion on something that I don't know. Soba

Jennifer has answered one aspect of this. I'll add another. Many reviews -- I wouldn't go so far as to say thousands -- posted on the forums are full of bias and "snarkiness". Yes, you are correct. However, people have and do frequently challenge such reviews. Perhaps not as much as you or I would like, but it does happen. This is no different.

Soba, very interesting for you to say this while best I can tell, Doug Psaltis having a possible "axe to grind" didn't concern you on the other thread. ← I believe I said: I'm not certain what YOUR point is if anything other than that it detracts from the discussion at hand, which principally relates to Steven's book and related reviews. Further, I am not asking Mr. Fine to clarify his intentions. I am asserting my disagreement with his statements. It might do one a world of good to discern the difference between demands and declarations, n'cest pas?

Wait, how could a book review be objective? It's an opinion. ← A review of anything is an opinion, but if people are going to -- supposed to, excuse me -- take such seriously, don't you think that they ought to be written in an objective a manner as possible? The language of the review is something I have issue with. Mr. Fine might have some interesting points to discuss, but the overall tone of his "review" reads more to me as someone with an axe to grind rather than as a book review. For what it's worth, what is the point of including the following phrase ?If Mr. Fine's intent was to attract attention, he certainly did it in spades. Soba edited for clarity and partially in response to Tess' post above.

I'm a bit uncertain what the point of your review is other than to convey the message that you have difficulties with the message that El Gordo attempts to communicate in his book. That part was comprehensible. Isn't a review supposed to be objective? The tone of this passage, indeed one example amongst many, is a poor attempt at such, in my humble opinion. Soba

I was wondering when a review would appear. Well, wonder no longer. Nobu 57 (Frank Bruni) (from the NYTimes DIGEST update for 28 September 2005. Scroll down for the appropriate link.) Discussion regarding Nobu can be found here. Related discussion regarding Mr. Bruni's style of reviewing and the New York Times star system can be found here. Soba

Certainly, questions can and should be asked. That doesn't mean he (Mr. Psaltis) has to answer them, either at this time or ever. That said, he probably will...whenever the current furor dies down. Whilst it would be nice for an author -- any author -- to offer answers or explanations for his or her work, it is in my opinion, unreasonable to make demands of such from those you happen to disagree with. It is what it is.

No, this was decidedly pale, Jason. I have a feeling they didn't use any saffron or if they did, just the barest amount. This is from our corporate cafeteria at my current firm -- which by the way, is pretty good compared to the cafeteria at my previous firm.

And of course, there is this: From The Montignac Method thread in the France forum. Soba

Just had this for lunch, and a pretty good rendition too. Chicken thighs and backs, cooked in chicken stock, with rice, carrots, peas, onions and peppers. Not sure if there was any saffron though. Some versions I've had include gandules (pigeon peas). Guess what's for dinner this weekend? Soba

The Pegu Club (Frank Bruni) Related discussion regarding Mr. Bruni's style of reviewing and the New York Times star system can be found here. Soba

Just the way the bagoong was cooked in the event I was unclear. Soba

And there's this dish, now that I think about it, with braised pork in a soy-based sauce, with whole peeled hard-boiled eggs. I can't remember, for the life of me, what the name of this dish is. Anyone?

I've been at Elvie's in the East Village several times and I've never seen menudo there. Haven't thought to ask. Yes, she uses ground beef in addition to the liver (which is diced, if memory serves). About kare-kare, my Lola comes to the U.S. once a year or so. The last time she was here that I remember, she made kare-kare, and served bagoong with it. She fried the bagoong until crumbly, and mixed in what must have been something like half a head of raw minced garlic. I've never had kare-kare in this way (with fried bagoong), and it was a revelation. Soba

Speaking of menudo -- my Mom's version had ground beef, carrots, onions, raisins, chickpeas, liver and tomatoes. Not sure if it had potatoes (probably not). Anyone have menudo stories to share? Out of all the times I've been to turo-turos here in the U.S., I've NEVER seen menudo on the menu. Why is that?

I guess what I'm getting at is this -- Would Mimi Sheraton or Bryan Miller assess Oriental Garden and grant a two-star rating? My guess is "no". Even Ruth Reichl, who gave the Chinatown Joe's Shanghai a two-star rating on the basis of its xiao long bao might be hard pressed to give OG two stars. I'm still mystified as to why OG gets two stars and not say, Grand Sichuan (midtown), all other things being equal.

Where did you get that idea? He raved about Sripraphai. He raved about Oriental Garden. Why does giving them two stars each represent a "not bad" assessment? They are arguably the best of their kind in the city. There are about 40 creative bistro-type restaurants that deserve one-star that haven't yet been reviewed; why single out one of them? Well, because that's his job. Reviewing means singling out notable restaurants and assessing them. Would we rather read more reviews of mid-priced Italian restaurants, whose gnocchi are either featherlight or gummy and leaden? I wouldn't. So bring on the Chinatown Chinese, K-town Korean, and outer-borough Thai. ← JJ -- Oriental Garden is nothing special. The type of cuisine served there is a standard that's more or less taken for granted within Chinatown and elsewhere. That's what I'm getting at. Yes, OG is the best of its kind within its class but within the universe of the Times star system, to say it's the equivalent of a Blue Hill or a Hearth is laughable....in my opinion. Unfortunately, these kinds of distinctions are lost on the dining public at large. More's the pity.

There's always red beans and rice, a New Orleans tradition for Monday evenings. (if you have to have ham). I wasn't thinking about a pasta salad so much as pasta with a really simple tomato sauce, fresh grated cheese or chopped herbs. Though a stew is great. Coq au vin anyone? Chicken, bacon, mushrooms, onions, red wine; what could be simpler? Best of all is that it takes less than an hour and a half to cook. Add noodles, a salad and dessert, and you're all set.

I've been to Oriental Garden quite a few times, and two stars is a bit of a stretch for what is essentially pure Cantonese cooking in a typical New York Chinatown. It's the Sriphraphai syndrome all over again. There are a great many GREAT Chinese restaurants in New York, and very few possess anything beyond an honorable mention. For me to believe this rating, I would say Spicy and Tasty should receive two stars, Wu Liang Ye should receive two stars, Grand Sichuan (midtown) should receive two stars, Sweet-and-Tart should receive two stars, etc. These are all great Chinese restaurants, yet none of them currently have an assigned NYT star rating. Try again, Frank. Soba

Oriental Garden (Frank Bruni) For discussion of Mainland, click here. Related discussion regarding Mr. Bruni's style of reviewing and the star system can be found here. Soba

Pasta, salad, roasted vegetables, maybe some fresh fruit for dessert. After a long day running around, the last thing you want to deal with is stress -- especially with people you'd rather not be around. If they complain, well then, tough noogies. You're braver and more patient than I could ever be.

Sarabeth's (Frank Bruni) Related discussion regarding Mr. Bruni's style of reviewing and the star system can be found here. Soba