Roger McShane

Hi everyone Thanks for the range of replies. It is fascinating to see that most of the responses have all skewed towards a discussions of violently chilli-hot dishes. In my initial post I did not mention chillis once. While I agree that some dishes in Thailand are very hot by Western standards many use very little chilli. So when I say that dishes are 'dumbed down' for Western palates, I am not necessarily talking about heat, I am talking about complexity. It may mean leaving out some fermented fish sauce or it may mean not including some highly caramelized pork. In fact one of the best and most complex dishes I tried on the most recent trip was a deep fried, crispy, snakehead fish, which was a riot of textures and flavours - I am sure that Mamster has tried this. And Fat Guy - yes i have tried Thai-style flavours at Vong and they get some of the way there, but you have to really experience the purity of the flavours in Thailand to realize that Vong and others are serving ersatz flavours.

Having just returned from yet another eating trip to Thailand, I have been reflecting on the 'western' perceptions of many of the posts on this site and how the concepts of good food and comfortable dining often are confused. I am sure that if a poll was held on this site about the best cuisine it would probably be a win for the French (or for the mutant New York variety). Most Asian cuisines would not rate. Nor would some of the complex Middle Eastern cuisines such as Iranian or Lebanese. But Thai cuisine is special even among the special cuisines of Asia. It is incredibly complex, difficult to prepare and requires enormous skill to do properly. I still have the taste of a highly complex Nham Phrik Pla Ra from the northern regions of Thailand (Isaan cuisine) in my foremost memory. I can understand why people who haven't visited Thailand don't understand this as there are very few places outside Thailand that do any justice to the real flavours of this cuisine. Maybe Sailors Thai in Sydney and Nham in London but very few others. I would be interested in other opinions on whether Thai cuisine is more complex than most and whether there anywhere in, say, the US where you can sample flavours that go close to approximating those of Thailand. We tried Arun's in Chicago and that was very, very disappointing. It was dumbed down 'farang' food designed for westerners.

I think that some of the recommendations have been great. Chez Panisse is a must-visit place. So is the French Laundry - but you have explained the difficulty in getting there. Gary Danko and the Fifth Floor are very good but probably lack soul. If you are a real foodie who likes deep flavours and real food (rather than tricked up plating) then those in the know always head for Zuni Cafe on Market (and you can catch public transport very easily).

Hi everyone New Orleans is such a difficult city to comment upon because the myths and the realities are so difficult to separate. Let's start with Bella Luna: This is a very ordinary restaurant masquerading as an Italian up-market venue. I have eaten there four times and each occasion has been disappointing. One of the problems in NO is that Italian restaurants can't separate their cuisine from Creole and Cajun. As an Italian restaurant it fails dismally - as an NO venue it also fails. Brennans: The quintessential tourist venue. People who like food wouldn't bother entering. I agree, however, that the wine list is wonderful! Galatoires: Have been there on a number of occasions. The service is good. The food is just terrible. How can anyone claim that this is a decent restaurant??? Acme Oyster House---This is a dreadful tourist trap. No self respecting foodie could even contemplate entering its portals. Cafe du Monde: Disgusting. K-Pauls I can remember a time in 1975 when I enjoyed his food when he moved his restaurant to New York. The food I have eaten in his NO restaurant has been so bad that I have only eaten a couple of forkfuls!! And the same goes for the awful Emerils restaurants. A year in NO was lovely but the food was very variable. I preferred the food at the lovely Horinoya, a Japanese restaurant in the city which was just wonderful.

It depends on whether you really want Thai food or the Western interpretation of Thai food. If you want the dumbed down pap that is served up as Thai food in New York, London and Paris then go anywhere you like. If you want real Thai flavours and textures that reflect the incredible complexity of Thai cooking then you should try Nham.

I'm with John Whiting on this one. The Slow magazine is seriously good. There are some who decry the Slow Food movement, however I fully support the idea of trying to rid the world of the unbelievably horrible American exports such as McDonalds and Starbucks. And someone mentioned Saveur. They have seriously compromised their previously reasonable position with some of their sycophantic reviews of truly horrible restaurants. I would refer to a review of a restaurant underneath the freeway in New Orleans as an example! Having been there on a number of occasions I can confirm that the food is crap@!

I have to agree with Blind Lemon Higgins although I have never eaten at the London clone. None of the dishes I have eaten at the New York venue had any 'wow' factor at all. It was pleasant food but hardly any better than dozens of other Japanese restaurants in dozens of other cities. But there were lots of celebrities there.

John I forgot about the English eating cheese after dessert! Suvir Thanks for the detailed reply. I had a look to see where I had read the bit about eating Rasam at the end of a meal. It was at: Travel.Indiamart.com What they have on their site is:

Thanks Adam. That's another piece of the puzzle!

Hi john We seem to be jumping between continents here! Your comments seem to support what I was saying. The Rasam from Kerala is a liquid that is poured over rice at the end of the meal - and interestingly (if there is such a word) after the taking of dessert. Is there anywhere else in the world where a savoury course (Rasam and rice) is served after the dessert?

Thanks John. I will have a look at Thorne's book. I am very familiar with cassoulet having spent lots of time in the Languedoc region. I am more interested in this foray in those wonderfully flavourful bean recipes that reek of bacon or molasses. What I am trying to tease out is whether dishes such as Boston baked beans originated from the US or from native Indians or from Europe or from the Caucasian regions.

I have been interested in the background to the development of Mulligatawny soiup. To me it appears to have been developed at the insistence of the British who were congenitally incapable of adapting to local cuisines and hence demanded a soup that they could have at the start of a meal. One of the myths that I find odd is that it was invented as there were no indigenous equivalents. However when I think about the cuisine of Kerala I am reminded of the Rasam that is favoured there. So. Is there such a thing as soup in Indian cuisine? Was Mulligatawny (Mulaga tawny) developed for the British? I would find any contributions extremely interesting.

I was lying awake last night worrying about the origin of baked beans and the best way to prepare them. Where were they invented? Should I use molasses? What about double-smoked bacon? Can anyone elighten me?

Po boys are problematic at the best of times but both Mothers and Uglesich's are really bottom of the barrel stuff. Tourists line up to eat at these places and, as you would expect, the food is dreadful. A rave review of Uglesich's in Saveur last year finally made me realise that this magazine was driven by goals other than excellence. I had bought the magazine on the way to lunch there. While I was eating the food i was reading the short review. What a problem! My dining partner was ill immediately following the meal. I wasn't ill - being blessed with a cast-iron stomach, but I was extremely angry with Saveur. So, don't assume you will get an edible po boy in New Orleans - they are mostly a device designed for tourists and other gullible visitors.

I agree with Tonyfinch's original assertion that confit refers to cooking then preserving a meat product in fat so that we can survive the winter (without having to go to the local restaurant). But that got me thinking about one of my favourite foods - namely rilletes. How do we define the difference between confit and rilletes. Especially when Wilfred talks about rabbit which is one of my favourite rilletes!

I agree with Mamster. Fish sauce is one of the world's best condiments. The fermentation process ensures that the liquid has a deeply developed flavour with salty overtones. Use it in salads, stews, soups....just about anything that needs a flavour boost. I would just like to add that I realise that my response has nothing to do do with fennel pollen - I apologise! Where I live, wild fennel abounds. Foodies (the very few) use all parts of it in their cooking. I haven't, however, used the pollen. I will look in to it.

I think that Lizziee has given an excellent summary of the places to eat in SFO. While I find Fifth Floor and Gary Danko interesting, they both suffer from the 'overworking food syndrome'. For those of us who hanker after 'real' food with vibrant flavours then Zuni Cafe is the perfect place for a Sunday lunch. This is where we always head for when we land in San Francisco. The food is unpretentious and packed with flavour. On our most recent visit we were seated near the open kitchen and were delighted to see the full cycle of our chicken being prepared in front of us, then being placed in the wood-fired oven and then finally being extracted and brought to the table. The flavours just sang! We also very much enjoy the Slanted Door, Chez Panisse and French Laundry.

It looks like we are all in agreement. But, just a word of warning. I also love the yum cha at the Kam Fook. It is rare outside Hong Kong to find a place that can seat 1000 where there is a queue and where the food is very, very good. But!! They do not take credit cards here. You have to pay cash!

I support Heather's comments about Unkai. One of the best views in Sydney, but the three meals we had there last year were all disappointing.

I completely agree. All the time I was working in Seattle last year, I used to drive from Bellevue across the lake every evening to buy my produce at the Whole Foods Market. It is one of the best organic stores I have had the pleasure to shop in anywhere. I also spend a lot of time in New Orleans. The store there is OK but nowhere near the same scale or quality as Seattle. But then again it doesn't have to be very good there to beat the competition hands down!

Andrew You will have a hard job convincing me that it is better than Bistro Moncur... but I would be interested to hear if you have noticed the food smells in the restaurant that I mentioned? Having said that, I have really enjoyed the food.

Steve You seem to be trying to down play the effect that major city restaurant critics actually have. I agree that only a small percentage of people will ever open the pages of the food reviews. But!!!! It is only a tiny percentage of the population that actually dine in the type of restaurant we are talking about. Only about three percent of the population is interested enough in food to read about it. But these are the very people who are fickle enough to change their dining habits as a result of a good or bad review - after all you wouldn't want to admit that you had just gone to a restaurant that had received a bad review in the London Times or the Sydney Morning Herald or the San Francisco Chronicle. So don't underestimate the power of the press to change the dining habits of their readers. However, I agree completely that we should be moving to a new paradigm and encouraging people to read forums such as eGullet where they can get a more in-depth interactive perspective. After all it is quite clear that the more opinions of a restaurant we have, the better the judgement we can make.

Hasmi You can eat wonderfully well in Singapore as there is such a wide range of cuisines. There are some very good Chinese restaurants in the major hotels as well as the Lei Gardens in Chijmes Square near Raffles Hotel. Just beside Raffles there is a wonderful area of trendy and not-so-trendy restaurants. We love the simple food at the Soup Kitchen in Seah Street where you can try the delicious Samsui chicken, the dish of the Samsui women who were brough to singapore at the end of the 1800s to carry out gruelling labouring tasks (particularly on building sites). We also like Blue Ginger (the name for galangal) where they serve very good Peranaken dishes. Try the intriguing Ayam Buah Keluak - a chicken curry served with a minced nut from Indonesia that has a bitter yet almost chocolate flavour. We are always interested in the fact that half a world away the Spanish and the Central Americans team chocolate with savoury dishes such as chicken and here is the same idea being replicated on the other side of the world. You can read our Singapore reviews at: Foodtourist.com

Many of the responses appear to be confusing the issues of writing about food and being a restaurant critic. I have absolutely no problem with people who are writing about food getting to know a chef and getting to understand what they are about. That is perfectly sensible. I agree that the piece Steve S wrote about his week at Gramercy was a classic piece of food writing. Similarly, Patricia Wells fulfils a valuable role in codifying the works of the current generation of French chefs. We all know more about how Rubichon cooks as a result of her work. However, the same cannot be said for restaurant critics. I agree that a debate can be held as to whether the critical review and the star ratings are valid, however they are a fact of life and they do have a profound effect on the livelihood of restaurateurs. If a restaurant critic in Sydney gives a mark of 11/20, most people don't even bother to read the review let alone go to the restaurant. Similarly, a four star rating by the New York Times guarantees a restaurant a certain level of trade. One final point. If, as many have stated in this thread, it is so important for the critic to get to know the chef, how many of these critics get to know the ones who they are about to give a bad review?

Yes, yes and yes!!!! I have consistently drawn a distinction in this thread between writers who are recognised and those who 'cosy up' to the chefs. Writers who are recognised will inevitably give a review that is slightly biased. Witness what I experienced at Le Bernardin. The reviewer talked about the wonderful spacing of the tables. But the area of the restaurant I was condemned to was less than agreeable! My elbows were dancing with the ribs of the lady at the next table. I have been to a number of restaurants that have been highly recommended by Patricia Wells where I have been totally disappointed with the experience. I can only draw the conclusion that she is known and receives better treatment than I do. So, Steve P I think that critics who 'play' with the subject of their writing do compromise themselves. They are absolutely unable to divorce themselves from their friendship/adoration of their friend 'the chef'.