Roger McShane

Macrosan The problem with your argument is that the scientific community (which I inhabit) and the artistic/literary community, suffer from exactly the same problem! They are all in bed with each other (in various configurations). You cannot argue that restaurant critics achieve world's best practice when, in fact, they are just playing to the lowest common denominator. So, I am arguing that restaurant reviewers have a wider audience than the scientific community therefore they have more responsibility. Simon, I agree that Gill needs to walk for more than two blocks to be able to review a restaurant. I think he also needs to understand that Thai food is slightly more complex than a green chicken curry (that is sarcasm - we Australians do not do this well on the Internet). I was not amused by his Nham review. That's all for now!

Steven Your points are well made but only tangentially address one of my main points in starting this thread. I agree that any major newsprint reviewer will soon be recognised in a market such as Paris, Sydney, New York or London. And I agree that while they might be recognised, a certain level of professionalism can carry the day and allow them to review dispassionately. But one of the points, among others, that I was making was the slightly cosier relationships that are developing in these markets. I am worried about how a critic (to use Steve K's useful distinction) can one week write a dispassionate review of a restaurant and then the next week appear at a cooking demonstration or wine tasting or whatever with the chef/owner of the restaurant they have reviewed. Or how they can co-author a book with the chef or run a joint cooking tour. I just don't believe that anyone can segment their lives like that!

Jim This is one of the best posts I have ever read because it just slinks into my own lifestyle so beautifully. Like you, I remain a Campari and Soda purist. However the limoncello stuf is fascinating. What sort of grain alcohol are you using? The rest of the recipe seems to me like the normal fermentation process. Sounds great. The thing I am jealous about is that you seem to have reached that wonderful state where you have retired and can experiment whith all this stuff where I still have another ten years of consulting to electricity comapanies to achieve my desired goal of doing exactly what you are enjoying. Keep up the good work!

Interesting reading as an outsider. Having experienced the trauma of trying to buy a bottle of wine (or three or four) in Pittsburg, I thought I had entered a time warp. For your information, in Australia section 96 of our constitution guarantees free trade between our states (which have a similar relationship to the Federal government that yours do). Therefore we have no problem shipping wine from one state to another as it would be a clear violationour our constitution. Then again we don't have a Senator called Strom.....

Jim I would like to explore your idea further. One of the reasons why I like Campari and soda so much is that it is not sweet. How much sugar do you use in your limoncello? Does it make the Campari drink sweet? It's not that I don't like limoncello having spent time on the Amalfi Coast where it is almost compulsory.

Please, please, don't use lean meat for your burger! You need 20% to 25% of fat for it to work properly. Any less fat than that and you have cardboard wafers!

Despite the fact that the responses to my original post have wandered around all over the place (a good thing I think, because the discussions have been interesting) I believe that many of the reviewers who have posted are really missing the point. Writing reviews for a newspaper or web site or magazine is partly about setting expectations for the readers (why else are we doing it apart from self congratulation). We are trying to explain what type of food, service, wine, ambience etc will they find in the restaurant. If the experience of the reviewer is so far removed from that of the reader then they have done the reader a disservice. Maybe Patricia Wells does understand Rubichon better than anyone else, but I don't care. I want to read a review by someone really clever who has not been given special consideration in the restaurant. Otherwise I am going to be disappointed with my experience (as I have been in a number of restaurants that Patricia has recommended). I agree with this quote, but for god's sake how does the average diner manage to get such an experience? I always want the restaurant to perform at their maximum level, but if I am consigned to Siberia in the back blocks of Le Bernardin while the critics occupy table 1 then how do I share their experience? The same goes for Nobu where they have a clear delineation of tables. Famous people and critics up the front, the rest of us down the back. This is the hallmark of the compromised critic. The willingness to accept special treatment. In all our years of reviewing we have never sought special treatment. The reviews we do are what the average diner experiences - even though WE WANT THE RESTAURANT TO PERFORM AT THEIR MAXIMUM LEVEL. So, I admire any reviewer who tries to remain incognito. I admire those who don't go to the publicity events. I admire those who don't accept the invitations to the press dinners. All this rubbish about having to know the chef to understand what they are doing is self-justification to ensure that the gravy train can keep rolling! But the public won't be better informed!

But surely that is not the point! We are not talking here about comparing incompetent chefs with those who are competent. Very few food critics seek out the company of chefs who can't cook. The point of this discussion is whether the things at the margin can be slightly changed to push a place from three stars to fours stars or similar. If a critic knows and likes Bouley or Boulud or Ducasse or Ramsay how can they possibly be dispassionate enough to judge whether they are going to give a three star rating or a four star rating. And the other things do matter. I read a review of Le Bernardin a couple of years ago. The first thing the reviewer commented on was the wonderful spacing of the tables and how this gave you an expansive feeling. Obviously this was important to that reviewer and set the tone for the review. When I ate there I was jammed into a row of tables at the back of the restaurant with my elbow firmly implanted in the ribs of the woman at the next table! The known reviewer obviously had a better experience. This is why, despite its faults, the Michelin system of anonymous reviewers is far superior to the newspaper system where one reviewer becomes the scourge or supporter of restaurants in that town.

The more I travel overseas, the more I think that Australian restaurants beat most others hands down. Take out a few of the really greats such as Ducasse and Gagnaire (and the occasional special place such as Gramercy Tavern) and there really isn't much that reaches the heights of Tetsuya, Rockpool, Flower Drum, Magill Estate, Grange, Nediz, Aqua Luna, Sailors Thai, Bamboo House, Vulcans and some of the other icons we have grown to know and love. And then there are the others such as Kylie Wong's, Chez Phat, Sud, Chinta Ria, mit Zitrone, Season which would also stand on the shoulders of their equivalents in other countries. So, I think that we are better than everyone!

I would like to raise the issue of compromised food critics. You know the ones who snuggle up to famous chefs and want to bask in the reflected glory of these icons but who compromise their craft in the process. I want to know if anyone believes that a critic can really review the restaurant of someone they have an association with? If Joel Rubichon opens a restaurant tomorrow could Patricia Wells dispassionately review his restaurant? Equally, can a reviewer who is recognised and therefore is given special service do their job properly. For example, the reviewer who turned up at the Fifth Floor last year and announced that he was there to review the restaurant therefore he had better be given a table. The superstar chef and a bottle of champagne immediately materialised as did a table, even though there were dozens of people who were waiting. Would this be a dispassionate review? There is also the creeping syndrome of critics helping chefs with books and articles. If you have spent the week working with a chef on an article can they review the restaurant? Should you also put a disclaimer on the review? Like the travel writers who spew forth gushing reviews of hotels in exotic locations but then put in a 4 pt font the fact that they received the accomodation free. Do our reviewers from major newspapers and magazines and web sites fall into this trap or are they all as pure as the driven snow?

I found the article quite interesting, especially because he actually visited the good restaurants in New Orleans rather than the tired old crowd. His choice of Cuvee, August, Herbsaint, Rene Bistro, GW Fins and Victors means that he got nearly all the interesting restaurants covered. Lilette, Indigo and Rio Mar were the only others that had something to offer. I thought he captured the spirit of Victors very well. It is an exceptionally classy restaurant with very cutting edge food. Having tried three or four meals there I think the food is a very serious attempt to break out of the mould of stodgy, overworked hotel cuisine. Cuvee is an interesting place that I would not rank as highly as Grimes. On my first two visits I was impressed (mainly as a change from the sad, traditional restaurants in the area) but the richness of the dishes and the overly-reduced sauces soon started to jar. I will be interested to see the reaction of others to the article.

There are may restaurants in Bangkok that have received accolades. But do they deserve them? I think that Celadon is the one that ranks as the best of the best. Does anyone have a restaurant that would give a finer dining experience in Bangkok?? (There are certainly better dishes such as some of the ones we had at the Ton Po but we are talking here about an overall dining experience.)

Hey Let's keep going with these Campari discussions. I am sitting in Hobart, Tasmania looking out over the beautiful Derwent River, the temperature is perfect, it is 6:00pm and my Campari and soda is about as perfect here as it would be in Italy. So many drinks do not translate to other countries (Ouzo?) but Campari seems to be perfect everywhere.

Steven Because i have become tortured and twisted after a year in New Orleans I would beseech you (we still use old English in Tasmania) to provide me with an independent analysis of the ancient restaurants of that city. As visitors to various threads on this site will have noticed, I have not been swept up in the marketing hype of that city - viz New Orleans has the best food in the world and anyone who doesn't agree is deficient! I think that some of the 'new' restaurants are quite reasonable - Bayona has a few good dishes and GW Fins is quite stylish and the seafood is good. But I want you to go to Galatoires. The restaurant that always makes it into the lists of the best in the US. I want you to experience the Shrimp Remoulade and the Pompano with lemon butter sauce and then tell me that this is great, world class food. I want you to tell me that this beats Mr Boulud and Mr Tom at Gramercy and all those other NY restaurants that you frequent. Then I want you to go to the Central Grocery and try a mufaletta and compare that with the food at various delis around NY. Then I want you to go to Mothers and subject yourself to a fried oyster po-boy. But - I don't want to bias you in any way. Hope you can swing by the southern city. If you like the food I promise to keep away from the southern boards! You have a mission!

Steven. I just love 'adjectives are crutches'!!!!! What a perfectly sublime way of describing them!

Niall I have been to Becasse and had quite a pleasant meal. The biggest problem is that they have an open kitchen and a major difficulty with their extractor fan. You therefore spend the whole night battling severe cooking smells that permeate the space. You can find our review on the foodtourist site at: Becasse review And now to the more difficult part of your question. It isn't Moncur, but then again that is one of my favourite restaurants in Sydney. It's probably on a par with LuLu and Tabou. I haven't been to Balzac yet because i have tried eight times at last count wihtout once being able to secure a booking!

Margaret Once again I have to (want to) agree with you. We love Delfina (even its expanded incarnation). That whole area of San Francisco is wonderful. The Slanted Door is nearby serving great Vietnamese food and wonderful wine and, of course, just up the street is the amazing Cafe Zuni which I think serves some of San Francisco's best (and most uncomplicated) food. Last year we went there for lunch and ordered a whole chicken cooked in the wood fired oven. Luckily, our table was near the kitchen and we could experience the whole theatre. They are just so assured in the way they cook! The end result tasted so good!!!!

What is the reason why I can never get a decent meal in Brisbane without going to Ecco or Green Papaya? There are so many restaurants that are hyped in the press, but they just never deliver. I find it more satisfying to drive to Noosa where there are probably ten restaurants where I am happy to dine at, whereas in Brisbane there is only one. Any comments?

Yvonne Absolutely right! My view has always been that the simpler a drink is, the better. Campari is a mildly bitter drink that is a great appetite stimulant. I consider it to be one of the world's great pre-dinner drinks along with champagne, some dry white wines, Manzanilla sherry, gin and tonic and sometimes (but not often) a classic martini. Most other cocktails that I have come across are precisely the opposite - designed to deaden the appetite.

Steve There are not many references in the press as El Bulli is not very well known in Australia. However the following is an article from one of the local newspapers that briefly describes her visit. Article from Age newspaper

Christine Manfield is one of Australia's best known chefs. For many years she ran Panorama in Potts Point, Sydney which was considered one of that cities best restaurants. She is also a prodigious author of cook books with her Spice book being a classic. Lately, she has also been teaching and presenting at food events. She has recently made the pilgrimage to El Bulli in spain to work with Feran Adria.

I'm glad you raised this issue as well because the same thing applies. I gave up eating Caspian Sea caviar some years ago because the stocks were becoming severely depleted. The question gets to the very heart of our responsibilities on this planet towards other humans and towards the ecosystem including animals. Of course the issues are never black and white. Sometimes it is uncool to eatan animal or fish because it is endangered. Therefore the eating of tigers or rhinos or the (now extinct) Tasmanian tiger is an anti-social act as it speeds up the demise of the species and hence deprives future generations of access to that species. In other cases it is uncool because the animal is considered iconic for some reason. Hence the barbaric clubbing to death of baby seals in Canada for the fur is uncool, however I see no problem with the Inuit harvesting seals for food, clothing and shelter. Similarly the elephant, the rhino and the giraffe are animals which we all consider to be iconic, therefore I would have difficulty either eating them or tacitly allowing others to do so. In Australia we have an even more interesting problem. The kangaroo is our national emblem and is regarded overseas as representing the spirit of Australia, however, to many farmers it is considered a pest and exists in plague proportions, often to the ruin of those farmers. Now, the kangaroo has excellent, low-fat meat which is extremely delicious!! However, particualrly in the UK, there is extreme outrage about the very thought of eating kangaroo meat. And now we return to the sea where the sturgeon, through overfishing and extreme pollution is being driven to the brink of extinction. Similarly, overfishing of species such as the Patagonian tooth fish is causing huge problems to that species (so in US restaurants they simply call it Chilean Sea Bass to salve the consciences of the diners). Off the Australian and South African coasts the ancient Orange Ruffy (Roughy) lives to 130 years before being trawled and sold off to become a second-rate meal (people like it because it is very white - it is also quite flavourless, something which evidently is also appealling!?!). So I believe that whenever a species is in danger, those of us with the luxury of choice in what we eat should immediately stop. Other societies don't have this luxury but the main groups causing the problem (ie all of us) certainly do have choice. Oh well, back to that Aquitaine caviar!

Just a couple of comments about Tojo's. On the one time we dined there, we were told by some other guests as we entered the restaurant how lucky we were because Tojo's was the best Japanese restaurant 'in the whole, entire world'. Now, apart from the tautology, i felt that there might have been a slight exaggeration here. I asked them where else they had eaten Japanese food. It turned out to be other Japanese restaurants in Vancouver. Well, Tojo's certainly doesn't have the best Japanese food in the world. The sushi and sashimi that we tried was quite ordinary. If Steven is right and fish has to be frozen, then ther eis no point even walking inside a Japanese restaurant anyway. Frozen sashimi is an abomination. In fact any frozen fish is an abomination. I am also interested in the emerging equation in North America between sushi and Japanese food. People seem to think that sushi equals the totality of Japanese food. It is a small but important part of the food served in Japan, but many people seem to restrict themselves to it. Anyway back to Tojo's. It was a moderately good restaurant serving average food. I can think of dozens of places that are superior from Seattle to New Orleans and from New York to Sydney.

I agree that shark fin is culturally important to Chinese communities but that is a tricky one. For example, rhino horn is also, but does that give them the right to cause rhinos to be poached in Africa. The Japanese are currently making a play for the right to kill lots and lots and lots of whales because it is culturally important to them. I am lucky that I live in Australia where we are satisfied if there are a few mangy old sheep roaming around our bush!

There is now a growing movement calling for the banning of shark products. Of particular interest are the calls for the banning of sharks fin soup. There appear to be two reasons. The first is that much of the sharks fin is harvested by simply cutting off the fin and throwing the shark back into the ocean to die. The second is that some scientists are saying that shark numbers are being severely depleted. Any thoughts on this matter?