Adam Balic

I used Bird's and flavored it with sweet Malaga. Jack, the Oxford colleges seem to have a few suet puddings associated with them, have you heard of any that are particular to Cambridge? For that matter, has anybody eaten an "Oxford Pudding" which is a steamed suet pudding which is filled with; pork, liver, onions, chestnuts and baked beans! Served with boiled potatoes - sounds, eh, filling.

A recent dessert using suet. "Sir Robert Walpole's Dumplings" from 18th century Scotland. Basically, candied citron and orange peel, currants, spices, bread crumbs, eggs and suet, boiled in a cloth for two hours. It makes a very light pudding.

The pickled form was also served with roast mutton/lamb in the UK at one point.

Look up-thread M.

I think that there is a mis-communication in this post somewhere. So to clarify I will post some interesting things I have learnt recently (which is the useful thing about posts like this as it forces one to look up information and data). I have not doubt that there is proud tradition of Ragú making in Naples, this is not an issue. However, my earlier response to the origins of "Ragú", was in response to these comments. I believe that this refers to the work of Duke Ippolito Cavalcanti "La cucina teorico-practica" (published in 1837, so not that early in the 19th century), who rendered French phonetically into Italian and in later works (post-1846) used Neapolitan dilect as well. This work does indeed contain what looks like an archetypal recipe for Neapolitan Ragú. I haven't got a copy of this work, but from what I can work out this recipe is called "Carne al Ragú". As Neapolitans obviously have a very good idea of what "Ragú" should be, it would seem that there may have been a contraction to simply "Ragú". But there are earlier uses of the word "Ragú" in print. La cucina casereccia printed 25 times between 1807-1885 was nurmerous Italianized French cooking terms, including "Gatto" (gateau) and "Ragú" (ragout). But before this there are earlier examples. In Francesco Leonardi's "Apicio Moderno (1790) a "Ragú di Animelle" as a componant recipe of "Gatto di Lasagne alla Misgrasse". In both of these cases there are very strong Neapolitan connections. My original interest was trying to determine when the Italianization of the French term occured and what types of recipes this was associated with. I haven't quite managed to do this, but I did find out some an interesting bit of information that might be of interest to people with access to historical Italian language cookbooks. Most people interested in food history know of Francois Pierre de La Varenne's "Le Cuisinier Francois", first printed in 1651 - it is one of the most, if not the most influencial, cookbooks produced in Europe. What is interesting is that it's impact in Italy was also great. Translated into Italian as "Il cuoco francese", there were at least 13 re-printings published between 1682 and 1826! An incredible record. I have facsmile of the 17th century English language version, there are many many recipes for ragout (spelt "ragoust"). In the case of the Italian labguage versions, it should be possible to pin- point the period in which ragout became ""Ragú". Also, as the first Italian language printing came out of Bologna, if the modern form of the word was in this addition it would give much evidence to suggest that the Northern-Italian version was older then the Neapolitan. Sadly, I don't have access to these books.

Yeh, the pepper flakes are optional, I like the green sauce though. I think that you will have hugh amounts of problems getting the fourth stomach, but you know tripe is good. From memory it is stewed in a light tomato based broth with beef stock. The crusty roll is cut, some of the bread is pulled out and discarded and then this surface is dipped into the broth. The roll is filled with guts, and your choice of seasoning is added.

Ragout has many forms, not just lamb, as ultimately it was more of a garnish then anything. That is the meaning of the orginal french term really. In the more degenerate forms you see in English cookbooks this idea tends to be lost. One mid-18th century English cookbook has a recipe for "Tete de Veau au ragout melee" (Calve's head with mixed ragout). In this case the ragout consists of sweetbreads, bacon, eggs, poultry liver, testicles, sauce, parsley and lemon juice. The point being that if the earliest reference to "Ragú" is 19th century, then it is very late. I find it hard to believe that the Italians are 200 years behind the English in terms of a cooking term. Maybe the exact spelling of "Ragú" did not appear until this late date (I doubt it though), but there should be earlier variations. In English there are numerous variations on how this term is spelt, until it settled on "ragout". Regarding "Ragú" in Sicily, I have a recipe here for "Ragú Siciliano delle Feste". May or may not be real, depending on the Italian you ask.

Uncooked tripe will be brownish in colour and will need extensive washing and scrubbing to remove the epithelial (surface cell) layer and the bits and pieces for the gut contents. It is a lot of work. After this stage you can get the tripe in various stages of processing. Even processed and bleached tripe has a distinctive flavour, but to be honest I enjoy eating tripe because of the textural aspect. There are several sorts of tripe sold. that come from different stomachs. Most common in Anglo- places is honeycomb tripe, the next most common is blanket trip. In Chianti cold cooked blanket tripe is eaten with very good olive oil and salt. I like this and if you can eat this then you like tripe. The famous French dish for tripe is from Caen, but you can pick your favourite braise/stew from pretty much any culture and substitute tripe. Enjoy.

Daniel - are you sure that it was tripe "trippa" not "Lambredotto"? The stalls around Mercato Centrale sell both. Sold from a stall they look like this. The tripe is the white stuff the Lampredotto is the brown stuff. Both are stomachs, but the lampredotto is the forth stomach, while tripe can be any of the other 3. From one of your stalls the lampredotto looks like this: There is a little bit more information in this thread of mine.

Isinglass - which is derived from fish swimbladders was considered the best type of gelatin in the past. Jelly made from it doesn't taste fishy.

Bugger, the last time I was in Spain I bought a bunch of random herbs, but this one wasn't one of them. A different species to regular thyme ("Tomillo" ( Thymus vulgaris) v "Pebrella" (Thymus piperella)) it seems.

Eh, a Shetland pony and a Thoroughbred are both horse, which one would you bet on in a 100 yard dash? edit: I have no opinion of whitecastle stuffing, I just don't follow the logic of the argument.

I do think that some herbs are not as successful when dried (or traditionally dried, maybe they would be better with new technology). Rosemary would be my prime example.

Paula - I was refe ring a Spanish import, but I think that it was more of a question of processing then variety. I have some of the Mexican type (dried) and like this very much, and also the Mediterranean types obtained when in Greece and Sicily (both are similar in flavour profile). Do you know if the marjoram that is used to flavour many of the sausages/blood puddings is fresh or dried? What ever it is, it is really good stuff.

When the Italians can agree what a ragu is, then they can say what is and what isn't. What about Sicily? I seem to recall some ragu like recipes from there.

A 19th century source is very late. "Ragout" is quite an culinary important term in the history of English cooking as well, as it became popular from the late 17th century as the new style of modern cooking was imported from France. In the end it became symbolic of the good food of England being replaced by fashionable French food by elite diners. From 18th century Scotland we have this gem: Is there that owre his French ragout[b/] Or olio that wad staw a sow, Or fricassee wad mak her spew Wi' perfect sconner, Looks down wi' sneering, scornfu' view On sic a dinner? Basically the French dish had become extremely popular in the 17-18th century, but I would think that some Italian dishes were around before this and just borrowed the name. Roughly translated it says that foreign food sucks. Getting back to Italy, I believe that there is another ragu from Naples "ragu genovese"?

I wasn't aware that the majority view was that fresh herbs are better then dried at all times. The people that are likley to have an opinion are surely aware of the of the difference between the flavour profiles of dried oregano and fresh and that both are good products? Aside from the varible quality of dried herbs, there is also the same issue with dried. Dried oregano is a fantastic store item, but on at least one occasion, what looked like a excellent buy turned out to be about useful as straw as it had been freeze dried (I think) and had no flavour.

Funny you should say that. When my mother bred goats she had a doe that delivered quins, twice in a row. The second time a the press came over (small town etc) to take some photographs and wondered where why there were only three kids in evidence (I think that mum told him that the bucks went to 'good homes').

I think that buckwheat and beetroot like similar conditions to grow in and in the more Northern locations of the range, buckwheat would have been the staple, rather then wheat. Beetroot is typically preserved for later use, so I guess in a long winded way I am saying that I agree. I have come across two references to an English yeast raised all rye pancake, one in Hammond and one in Mrs. Rundell's cookery book. I think that the former is taken from the latter. Can't find out if this was a regional thing or if it was a local copy of a blini.

Are those Anglo-Nubians (or are they called Nubians in the USA?)?

True, but I suspect that as Bush is an elected representative of the nation and therefore would be expected to represent a majority view, it is easy to make the leap that the food of the Bush's is also representative in some way. Not nessarily true obviously. Also, some elements of the UK food press love pointing out how vulgar Americans are (and at the same time wallowing in the glory of any USA based praised for the the 'UK food revolution'). An article that went through the menu arranged for a Bush vist to the UK that included pumpkin soup, commented that 'Pumpkin was bland and tasteless - like Americans'. An odd comment as I doubt that the writer involved was so ignorant that they were not aware of flavourful pumpkin, so they obviously couldn't stop themselves from making a dig, even though the same press tend to go all purple in the face and wobbly if somebody suggests that the standard of the food in the UK just isn't very good over all.

Not quite blini. These are "Pink Pancakes" (or should be, if I had the filters worked out correctly). Very popular in the 18th century as a side dish in England. They are made from beetroot.

The rings are, you know crumpet sized (about 4 inches wide). The crumpet mix is quite wet, so if you have no ring, you will get a very flattened product, not a crumpet. Yeast is the traditional raising agent.

"Allium" is Latin for "garlic", so you would need more information to identify it. The over harvested until it went extinct in the wild sounds more like silphion/silphium/laserpitium which is an extinct form of ferula (giant fennel).

It is a host plant for one of the stages of stem rust, so once this was recognised it was eradicated from much of its Europen (and American) range. Althouh, some species are now a common garden plant in the UK. You can buy the dried fruit from middle-eastern stores as they are commonly used in Iranian cooking. It was very common in 16-18th century English cookbooks, used as a souring agent and becasue of it's colour.