devlin

If your unbaked dough is too "crumbly" and doesn't come together, you need more liquid. I think it's just that simple. I agree with both Wendy and Chianti's advice. This is your first pie, yeah? Don't worry too much (or "overthink" as Wendy says). Making pie dough isn't nearly as scary as people seem to think it is. And it's really not a bad thing to actually handle the stuff a bit. I'd suggest a food processor, though, if you're worried about that. I always use a food processor for my pie doughs. It's far quicker. And then I dump the stuff on the counter and shape briefly before wrapping and cooling.

Ok, I've asked her, and she said she takes it out of the freezer, then puts it in the oven, and once in the oven, the buttery edges start to melt and slip into the pan. ← Maybe blind baking first? Making sure the weights/beans fill the entire pie pan. I've had the same problem, which is worse with butter crusts, or anyway in my experience. So I began to blind bake those crusts, using aluminum foil folded a bit over the sides of the pan and beans pushed flush against the pan sides and mounded in a hill.

I'm wondering whether something like a Greek Milk Pie might work, only substituting an apple filling for the custard. I'm gonna have to try that myself.

about apples: I always use a blend of different apples, both in pies and cakes. Jonathan apples in peak season are wonderful, and pink lady apples are really fabulous eating and baking apples. And of course granny smiths.

I would LOVE to post pictures. Unfortunately, we are without a camera at the moment as some baggage handler lifted it as we were going through O'Hare last year. It sounds as if you and I are using "clef" and "starter" interchangably, or that anyway that what you call "clef" I call "starter." I'm using about the same amounts per baking (the small, experimental batches) as you are with your own. I wasn't even thinking about the amount used so much as the um, volatility, for lack of a better word, the liveliness of the stuff. I use mine a couple of times a week generally, but I've been bringing it up to room temp for a couple of hours beforehand. But if I don't have to, then what the heck. I'll try your method next. I've been sidelined by the aftermath of the hurricane, though, so I'm not entirely sure when I'll be baking next.

Jackal, I'm having a ball watching this. Particularly as we appear to be experimenting in such similar ways and with the same techniques. My own flour is a local flour which I get from a mill in Kentucky, an 11% flour that I love. I was increasingly disenchanted with the results I'd been getting with higher percentages of both protein and flour and water ratios, and frankly with all the shaping techniques I've been faithfully performing according to standard instructions. It increasingly has seemed to me that most of those shaping tecnniques take a huge percentage of that lovely, open crumb right out of the bread. So I began using higher percentages of water, more of the folding rather than the tighter shaping I've been used to, and gosh if I didn't start getting results right away. Still, I've felt almost guilty, as if I'm not doing it "right" somehow because I'm not doing it according to the book. I'm happy to see somebody else doing exactly the same thing and getting the same results. But a question. I've been bringing my starter up to room temp at least, and allowing it to start bubbling a bit, before I use it. Do I understand correctly that you simply take it out of the refrigerator and use it to make the sponge? That you use your starter cold?

The loaves pictured are from a conventional oven, yes? I'd be willing to bet the results will be dramatically different in the wood-fired environment. And with the higher heat as well. Anyway that's been my experience. My ancient dough is nearly double the height in the wood-fired oven as opposed to my kitchen oven. And the interior crumb is very much more open and airier and lovelier as well. But I imagine you've experienced the same thing. I'm going to try working on this myself later this week, at least in my electric oven for now, and I'm glad you've brought this up to spur me on because a sourdough baguette is on my list of the more immediate breads to work into a thing I like better than what I'm producing right now. But I'm glad you're way ahead of me.

I'm certainly interested in watching how you progress through this, and it's a thing I've got on my list myself. It seems to me you've got three options (at least that I'm able to think of at hand): adding some portion of higher protein flour, decreasing the water to some degree, or baking with a higher temp, which would work fine here, given they're baguettes. You're at around 450F, right? I bake mine at about 550F in my wood-fired oven. They rise and bake very fast. But they don't burn, and of course they bake through. I'm still learning and experimenting, and it's really useful to go through these things with others who are doing the same thing.

Thanks so much y'all for all the help and advice. I'm following up on some of these, and once I find a deal to my liking, I'll get back to you.

It's my understanding as well that Atta "durum" is not the same as the durum that's used for pastas and in Italian-style breads. And it's exactly that I'm using it for. I need the super fine grind of the true durum. Baker's catalog/King Arthur's recently raised the price of their durum a dollar for a 3 lb bag. And, again, buying flour at that price doesn't make any sense for me. I'm not just baking bread for myself, it's for the bread business. Again, what I'm looking for long term is a mill that will supply the flour, and it's been difficult finding them. I've just managed to put together a short list, though, and will give them a call. And the Durum association is slowly getting more and more information up on their web site. Given the price of durum is relatively high, I'm wondering too whether the Atta at $7.00 a 20 lb bag can be what I'm looking for. I'm willing to explore the options though, so thanks for all the feedback.

Durum flour, real durum flour, and I don't mean semolina either because at the moment I have no way to grind semolina into durum, is damned hard to find. It's grown only in a handful of states in this country, primarily in North Dakota where the US Durum Growers Association resides. I've phoned them and several places in North Dakota trying to find local mills or even growers, but they're pretty tight-fisted with their information and so far I've just not gotten anywhere. I buy really nice bread flours and grains from a local mill (Kentucky), but they don't carry durum, only semolina in 3 lb bags which is pricey and I'd have to grind it for durum. The closest I was able to find a "local" source was a # from the USDGA for a distributor in St. Louis who "might" sell a pallet of the stuff to me, but she wasn't sure. And because these days I'm baking for business, I'm looking for bulk. Buying 3 lb bags just isn't cost effective for me. And I'd like to buy direct from a mill.

I'm having a heck of a time finding a source for durum these days, especially since King Arthur/the Baker's Catalog doesn't carry it anymore, currently. I'm wondering whether shipping costs finally made it too cost-prohibitive for them. Anybody have any information about where to get durum?

How about baked or grilled? Or is one of the goals not to heat the oven? I far prefer some things steamed (broccoli, for example), and I'm frankly having a hard time thinking of one vegetable I prefer boiled, not even potatoes.

Ummmm, how about offering to help with the cooking? If the alternative is to "feast hop amongst the homes of [your] friends who are Damned Good Cooks" or celebrating with family, then I guess you'll need to decide what's most important. The food or the family. But if you really want to spend time with the family, then why not offer to help with the feast? I know I've felt pretty burdened myself during holidays with all the cooking and the cleaning and the like, and recently I've begun to ask myself why we've done it the way we've always done it in my family, one of us always doing all the preparation, when actually it could just as easily be shared. On the other hand, one of my sisters is pretty ill, and I'd really rather spend those times with her now because life's too short and I'm gonna really miss her if things get as bad as they might. She's more important to me than the great food other people might be able to offer during a holiday.

Beanie, thank you, those are good suggestions. It may be better to leave off information about the mill for the reasons you outline and include it in a small insert. The leavening process isn't likely to change, though, so I'm thinking I'll keep that. Good feedback. Thanks.

Yes, I'm thinking the front would hold the business name, and a list of the breads with ingredients. The back would be dedicated to everything else.

I'm in the middliing stages of putting together my bread kitchen and am thinking about the sorts of things I'd like the customer to know about how I make the breads, apart from specific ingredients -- that I get my bread flour locally, for example, and the mill is the oldest mill in the state, what it means that many of the breads are naturally-leavened, maybe a little something about what naturally-leavened means relative to "sour dough," something about the discrete properties of the flours as opposed to all-purpose flour, a little about my wood-burning Alan Scott oven, the sorts of long processes of fermenting the doughs, that sort of thing. What sorts of information do you like to see on a bag when you pick up a loaf of bread? And would some well-written background information (historical, local, etc.) be of interest?

Here's a thing I'm not sure would technically qualify, but I inadvertently burned, or anyway way overcooked, a stuffed flank steak on the grill. My husband hated it. I loved it. The stuffing was bread crumbs with chopped Italian salami, some garlic, parsley, oregano, chopped pine nuts, some parmesan cheese, a couple of chopped anchovies, salt, pepper, etc, the steak brushed with olive oil and then rolled around the stuffing, wrapped in aluminum foil and set on the grill, ostensibly on medium heat, although I hadn't calibrated my grill at the time. It was supposed to grill at medium for a couple of hours Turned out the grill was actually high when set on medium and so after two hours, after unrolling 6 steaks, I had 6 charred/burnt affairs on my hands. They looked like cigars. Difficult even to cut. But even though they weren't the tender, juicy things they were supposed to be, I loved them. A sort of wonderful jerky thing with a delicious stuffing. Burnt, but fabulous. I ate them cold for breakfast over the course of the week.

Usually, refreshing sourdough starter. Very subtle, beautiful. I often take a big breath and sigh, "God, that's gorgeous," and my husband doesn't know what the heck I'm talking about. I'm the only one who can smell it. Invariably, though, the first thing he says when he's home is, "Wow, something smells good." Laundry, clean floors, and whatever's cooking or baking. Lots of good clean smell and baking and cooking. I love the smell of my house.

This is with the exceedingly wet doughs? Yes? I've done a load (20 loaves) exactly that way of the Peter Reinhart Pain L'Ancienne, which is wetter than most folks are used to, and it was a royal pain. the cornmeal didn't affect the finished product in the least. So I guess it's just practice, practice, practice....

I guess I should say more. I already use both methods suggested above when I'm baking in my kitchen in my electric oven (and thank you both for responding, by the way). And although that's doable and simple enough when you're baking only a couple of loaves at a time, or even up to six or so, when you get into the big batches for a wood-fired brick oven which will hold 40 loaves, everything changes. It's that aspect I need help with right now.

Is it possible to work fast with 30 loaves at a time?

My favorite bread doughs are the ridiculously wet doughs, the sort of thing that's nearly impossible even to shape. Because I want to put the dough directly on a hot stone (and ultimately in my brick bread oven), I'm trying to figure out the best method for getting them from the work space into the oven. Should I just resign myself to misshapen loaves or proofing everything on parchment paper? Anybody have any advice?

I'm not sure where I learned this, but I add a little water to my eggs, not cream or milk, which is the way I first learned it. It really is very easy to cook an omelette without adding pam, or similar such stuff, in a stainless steel pan, although none of my friends will even attempt it. And once you do one and it turns out beautifully, you'll wonder why you ever bothered with the other stuff which just seems an extra, annoying and unnecessary step.

I don't use a spatula, nor do I fold while it's in the pan, but rather as it's going onto the plate. I use pretty much the method linked to above, moving the cooked portions of the egg into the center of the pan (stainless steel) while tilting the pan to move the wet stuff to the outside. And then because I tend to like a lot of cheese (generally a blend of things, like strong cheddar, gruyere and parmesan), together with chives, I stick it in the oven for a couple of minutes so the cheeses can melt better. And then, rather than messing around with a spatula, all you have to do is tilt the pan over your plate, let it slide about halfway there and then flip the rest of it over the top. Voila! And to start, I usually heat a little olive oil with a sprig of fresh rosemary for a couple of minutes, add a little butter and then add the eggs, etc. Oh, and I sprinkle a little freshly-grated parmesan over the plate before I tilt the omelette into it and then top with a bit more parmesan. Or anyway that's my own favorite version.