devlin

I bought some from a brewing company per Nancy Silverton's suggestion that if you were to use it, that would be the stuff to get. She also noted that although she used to use it in her breads in the same quest for the better bread, she considered later it really didn't add anything significant enough to bother with. And that's the conclusion I reached myself after trying it for awhile.

I've emailed the Martha Stewart recipe. I agree with the suggestion above that your original list is a little cookie-heavy, and I think the Martha Stewart almond tart would be a big hit. Every time I take it somewhere it's literally the one thing everybody raves and raves about. Done in stages (which I recommend), it's not such a big deal. On the other hand, the butter cake with almond is now one of my husband's favorite things on the planet (and mine). It's killer. And ridiculously simple. I've also rewritten that if you'd like it.

How about Sarah Phillips' butter cake (post #40) with a variation on Ling's crumble cake topping (post #61), using almonds and either almond extract or amaretto to flavor the topping (including almond extract, in addition to vanilla, in the cake itself). Because I didn't have whole milk, I used buttermilk instead and the cake is fabulous -- moist, flavorful, gorgeous. If you use buttermilk, be sure to correct for that, modifying both baking powder and soda, which I've noted in post #94 of the thread. I've a recipe for a gorgeous Martha Stewart Almond tart/cake affair that always gets rave reviews. It's more complex than the butter cake which has the added advantage of yielding two cakes in one fell swoop and is super easy. If you'd like the Martha Stewart recipe, please feel free to email me. I've already got it copied in a word file with easier directions than hers. (edited for spelling)

So when does EG start offering a tutorial on forum language? I've already got two kitchen aid mixers, one I bought years ago, a 5 quart, and then about a year ago a 6 quart. So far, with the exception of the one bread dough, I do all my breads using the folding method which I prefer. But I also get a lot of requests, more now than I'm able to handle with current equipment, for Carol Field's super wet "crocodile" bread. And I'm thinking that because more folks are expressing an interest in some of my cakes, a bigger mixer would work all the way around for me right now. But no, I haven't found THE mixer yet. Still looking. If anybody has any leads, please email. I can drive anywhere within about 100-150 mile radius to pick one up. Thanks for the EG as a second language tutorial.

Um,... , could you translate that into Devlin speak? ← K8's saying Private Message her. I don't think you're allowed to sell on the forums. ← Ah.... Gotcha.... Although I gotta say I've read it over again, and again again, and I'm still stupid about it. But anyway, yes. Thank you. What a good idea.

Um,... , could you translate that into Devlin speak?

You should sell it?... Any idea how much you might should be selling it for?

To everybody, thank you so much, that's all good information. I'm keeping my eye peeled for a great deal on either a Berkel or a Hobart.

But warn me about what? Please! No constitutional objections!

Cool! I've been looking on Ebay. I've got one bread I need a heavy-duty mixer for, 20 quart minimum. I see that the other brands cost substantially less than the Hobarts, and I figure why spend twice what I need. Thanks. That's tremendously helpful.

I'm in the market for a used 20 quart mixer, but I'm not familiar with brands. Anybody have any recommendations other than Hobart? A search renders these for comparison: Globe Berkel Varimixer Anybody know anything about them?

To add a little to the discussion regarding the "too sweet" sourdough, I'm wondering how old the starter is and how often it's refreshed. For me, personally, I'm not a big fan of a really sour bread and I love my own sourdough precisely because it's not very sour. It's mild but at the same time very flavorful. But nearly without exception, I use a fermentation of at least two days which lends a bread a more complex flavor. It's also my understanding that the term "sourdough" is something of a misnomer for many folks who work a lot with sourdoughs, and that the more appropriate term may simply be "naturally leavened," which is a term I prefer myself. Sourdough, after all, is what all leavened breads were before the advent of commercial yeast, and I'm pretty certain breads weren't uniformly sour historically, having a wide range of flavors depending on how individual bakers handled their natural or native leavens. Also, to note an earlier comment about fermenting versus rise, these are, to my understanding, not the same process. The rise comes with proofing. The fermentation is the process a leavened dough goes through to enhance flavor. [edited for clarification]

Can you say a little more about that? What about the grigne might suggest a loaf is either over or under proofed? Is it the rather exceptional separation of crust on this particular loaf?

After reading the last few pages of this thread yesterday I was determined to make the Ultimate Butter Cake right away. I thought I had milk, but all I had was cream and buttermilk. So after a quick search, I discovered that when substituting buttermilk for cow's milk in baked goods, using one cup as the base measurement for milk, it's a one to one subsitute for the milk, but you need to add 1/2 tsp baking soda and substract 2 tsp baking powder from the required amount in the recipe. Anway, I made the cake, using Ling's topping and substituting the buttermilk, as instructed above. Although I understand from the conversation that the substitution may dramatically alter the original, I gotta tell you this is one fabulous cake. Or, rather, two! Wow.

Everybody's breads are looking gorgeous. Here's a question (and thank you glenn for your response above), what sorts of water temps are folks using? Warm? Cool? Anybody paying attention to the temp of the dough at any stage? Both Hamelman and Silverton note desired temps of water and dough (as does Reinhart now and again). Is this an issue we should be paying more attention to?

Can you say more about your low-potent starter and longer proof? How low is "low"? I mean as far as you're able to explain, which I understand isn't always the easiest thing on the planet when it comes to the vagaries of sourdough.... Those are very pretty loaves. oh, and edited to ask what's the scaled weight?

Des, I meant to say too that those baguettes pictured above were baked in my electric oven not the brick oven. I do all my experimental stuff in the electric oven in my kitchen first.

Jack's formula reminds me too of a very good bread I got in a tiny very expensive restaurant in Italy a few years ago that had an attached pizzeria. I'd been making a similar thing only with commercial yeast, and theirs had commercial yeast as well, but it may have been the best bread my husband and I had found so far in Italy, having been disappointed again and again by beautiful looking breads in bakery windows that were just awful and flavorless stuff. I always use a two and three-day preferment, and have really fallen in love with the sourdoughs. It's been a huge help learning how to maintain them once they're baked as well, freezing and warming, etc. I'm amazed again and again by how fabulous they are even after freezing and warming. Last year I went to Alan Scott's bread oven conference outside San Francisco, and somebody had brought a walnut and gorgonzola (or some variety of blue cheese) bread that was out of this world. That's my next experiment. I've gotten really good results in my electric oven, though. And with some tinkering around with process, they've been better than I thought they would be. You may be doing all these things already, but I use a square stone, heat the oven at its highest level for an hour before the bake, and then put the bread in the oven at that heat to start, throw a cup of water in a pan that's also been heating along at the bottom of the oven, close the door, wait a minute, and then turn the heat down to the required level. The loaves usually bake more quickly, but beautifully. Oh, and roast your walnuts first.

Thanks so much. I did use Jack's formula, and it's a wonderful base for other breads. I don't use a mixer or food processor, just mixing briefly by hand, and the final dough the same, minus salt and then adding that about 20 minutes later (and other ingredients if I'm incorporating anything else) and then another brief mix, and then a couple of folds in the bin itself over a couple of hours. After experimenting over the past few years shaping breads, I hardly shape this type of bread at all, merely cutting, letting rest and then very briefly, very gently sort of coaxing into the shape I want, but generally in the shape, more or less, I cut the dough, which is either shorter or longer depending on what I want. And then the proof and bake.

Golly, Dan, that's welcome praise indeed. Thank you. It's a wonderful, base formula for so many breads. I'm celebrating today, having just yesterday gotten certified to open the business. I'm still learning, still experimenting, still figuring everything out. It's bound to be a life-long thing, I'm expecting that, but I'm happy right now. Your own book is my next bread resource to really explore in depth. I'm liking it very much, and I love your methods which are very similar to how I approach the whole process already, having searched and studied and played on my own for a few years now. It's so heartening to see others engaged in the same sorts of things. And this forum has been a godsend. Thank you.

Jack, a question about your formula for this baguette. For your initial preferment, you're using 20 grams of starter (or chef), and for your final dough, you're using 200 grams of starter. Here's my question. Does that 200 grams include the initial 20 grams? Or is the 200 grams added to the initial 20 grams? Thanks.

I was feeling the same way. Sort of, "What, that's all?... Over already?" So, yes, please come back to the thread now and again and update us on how the bread progresses.

Devlin, I owe you a special word of thanks. You post still haunts me. I am generally coldly analytical and logical. I am still pondering what you wrote. There is no doubt that it will have some impact. Not sure what it is. I'll let you know. ← That's a nice compliment, G. And now somebody besides my husband faces the prospect of future haunting. It's a good thing.

I have been loathe to invest time and effort at getting sorted with a decent peel. Bent loaves is the penalty you pay for makeshift equipment. Not much handling - 5 mins in the stand mixer, rest for 15 mins, fold for 30 secs, rest for 15, shape. I have munched a few more pieces. The texture leaves a lot be desired, but, note this down somebody, this is the first bread I have ever produced that is eminently edible. ← Well I'm glad I can stop pacing. And start cleaning my pasture instead.... Wait, that can't be right. I might would rather pace. Anyway, on the heels of Jack's comments, I'm expecting we might hear next you've hired somebody to take over the handling of the inn so you can make time for handling more dough. Congrats. It makes me glad.

Your signature shape -- a bent loaf! Go for it! I'm still liking what I see. How much handling?