jgould

"An appropriate analogy? You are comparing a restaurant that serves cuisine that covers a broad range of genres within Chinese cuisine -- Shanghai, Beijing, Sichuan and Cantonese (along with some modern interpretations) as opposed to a restaurant that has a strong focus on classic Sichuan cuisine. Saying that one is not in the same league as the other with the implication that one is "better" than the other within this context is not quite accurate and is purely a matter of speculation and/or opinion. Soba" i assumed you could not resist the bait, thanks for reaffirming previously held assumption(s)

Beg to differ. Never was, either. Always overpriced and never more than merely solidly good, at best, from what I remember. Shun Lee Palace may have once been the best Chinese restaurant in the city, though. ← i guess that's why 1 has a choice between chocolate & vanilla... as well as very recent trips to both shun lee's as opposed to "what i remember". many of these have been around for a long time & so many "remember" what was, not what is. overpriced is always in the eyes of the beholder, but its best to remember "one gets what one pays for", n'est-ce pas? off-off topic, as to apples & onions, it is debatable as regards to an appropiate analogy, sort of the same as GS vis-a-vis SLW.

a la "poppy quice's" experiment above, bought an onglet & a bifteck de hampe at a local butcher. unfortunately, had to buy the entire piece of each, so decided against the bifteck de flanchet. sauteed mushrooms, shallots, butter, red wine (reduced), then the biftecks. perfectly cooked, & sauce ended up terrific, both compliments of the head chef, my wife, i subbed as the sous chef & sommelier, selecting a moulin-à-vent to match. results: very similar in taste; however, the onglet was somewhat chewier, & had a gamier taste. la hampe was tender, but had slightly less of a taste. probably would go with the onglet, but only barely. assume the flanchet would come in 3rd since it is an "inferior" cut vis-à-vis the other two, but next experiment will be onglet vs. flanchet vs. la bavette. voila!

i'm curious as to why bordeaux's great estates were not broken up vis-a-vis bourgogne's, as per the code napoléon of 1804, which imposed new inheritance rules requiring property to be equally split among offspring upon the death of the owner. the reason why today there are so many tiny vineyards in burgundy. it would appear bordeaux's great estates would have also been subdivided as well, but they are not.

that's classic i assume you are referring to shun lee west on W 65th? shun lee WEST, not the awful shun lee PALACE on the eastside, may be the best chinese restaurant in the city, & to characterize as boring signifies a lack of familiarity with the varied number of interesting selections on their menu ranging from mild-to-spicy; or using another criteria - every nite, 7 nites a week, 4 weeks a month, 12 months a year, year-after-year; shun lee has a filled restaurant with both regulars, & newcomers who ALL seem to turn into regulars. to even compare with saigon grill is particularly odd, these 2 are not in the same chinese ballpark. additionally, the much EG- touted grand sichian is very good, but not in the same league as shun lee west!

not to quibble, but understand. the $35 cab "steal" - what was it & do you have any idea of its wholesale price?

i was looking forward to nice matin's opening. very near to where i live & a good replacement for the overpriced, mediocre cafe luxembourg + it was within the 5 block radius that qualifies a place to be a "local" hangout. i knew 1 of the owners & the genl mgr from another of their restaurants, french roast. this group also owns marseille, l'express, & several others. unfortunately, i was disappointed. the design is ridiculous (the designer must have been thinking of another motif, different from a bistro), cramped tables, service was & is inept, food was initially good, but has sadly gone downhill & now overpriced for what is expected. the exec chef has moved on, so his draw no longer applies. the bar area is clumsy & not bistro-conducive. they have also been through a number of bartenders, most have been customer-nonfriendly, & the unnecessary sommelier is just that - unnecessary, particularly in a place like this. i imagine this is a way to overprice a mediocre wine list. i just don't understand it "seems" so easy, particularly on the UWS & particularly this location > closest competition is ouest 5 blocks north or cafe lux 9 blocks down, can't beat this corner location, the layout could have been fabulous, but was turned into the worst possible. more attention to what makes up a "place" appears to be beyond the scope of this group. their concept "seems" to be: find a good location, build-out a cookie-cutter faux- french atmosphere, hire inexperienced & lazy help, bring in a "name" exec chef, then let him leave, charge high wine prices, & pray that the sheep will come for slaughter. so far, they have been right. this area, 74th-80th, bwy/amsterdam is undistinguished & populated by places oriented to 13yr olds. take 1 of 10 "french bistro/brasseries from the e. village, or even the vilified upper east side, & drop them in this location, & i truly believe this would be an excellent location for a local crowd. there is no question there are enough "professionals" in the area to support. think of a lucien, resto leon, gavroche, la tour, demarchelier, quatorze bis just to name a very few that would be "perfect". i know this will never happen! cafe lux will continue to chug along allowing the absentee owner to come by & collect lots of money, ouest will continue regardless of all the complaints, aix may or may not hang on - beautiful space, but.... anyway, based on these "casual observatiions, its aggravating to travel, but chelsea (gavroche), meatpacking (pastis), soho (balthazar), tribeca (landmarc), village (le gigot), UES (orsay) will continue to receive my business, sad to say.

True, but I must say I was pleased with the "bag in box" BN I picked up last time from my local entrepot for occasional quaffing. In addition, most restos and bars in Paris don't serve DeBoeuf but that from winemakers seldom seen in the States. ← great marketing coup & good reason to step out thursday. BN is just that, BN. the beaujolais crus are a treat & a completely different wine. just have fun.

"if I want a French bistro with a charming back garden and consistently excellent food, Gascogne would be my first choice" actually, thats interesting. i think Gascogne is not very good. so, to each his/her own.

sorry to hear you had an "average" meal. do you believe it was the norm, or an exception?

i understand completely. unfortunately, i can't revisit 2 places my parents took me to on visits to nyc: danny's hideaway & chandler's - both long gone, but not forgotten.

terrific report & thanks. how did your "au vin" sauce turn out?

"We eat at La Petite Auberge with some regularity, and coq au vin is not on the regular menu. They do offer "le poulet du chef" (chicken of the day), but the last few times we were there, it was not coq au vin." have not been to la petite auberge in years, seemed way too bright, average age appeared to be quite old, & i don't remember the food being that memorable; however, it does seem to receive very favorable reviews - what am i missing??

Bah oui. The best example of which has been Boboss's côte de boeuf at Le Quincy in the 12th; watching the not totally-stripped bones toted back to the kitchen brought tears to my friend's eyes. ← i totally commiserate

awesome! what a wonderful thing to do. i, also, other than looking at a diagragm, not really familiar with a cow's anatomy, so your comments apropo. the following "definitions may help, but a great test would be to do as u & purchase each of the 4 below & perform a similar test. 1st question would be: is the onglet aka hangar steak nearer the kidney vis-a-vis la bavette? a) an onglet is our hangar (from the plate section) which are the 2 small muscles joined by an elastic membrane, i,e., the supporting muscles of the diaphragm b) a skirt steak (also from the plate section) IS the diaphragm = bifteck de hampe in french. skirt is the butcher's term for the diaphragm, which is flattened out & served as steaks. c) a US flank steak (from the flank section) = a bifteck de flanchet d) a "bavette" is basically a thin top sirloin; however, this cut may be the most confusing. all the above are clearly from a specific area & agreed upon. the bavette is clearly a different & specific cut, but as a thin top sirloin aka the undercut of the sirloin leads to confusion & difficulty. i believe this is a conspiracy by the butchers to aggravate those who wonder what these different cuts actually are . in the US, one can visit a local butcher & view a hangar, a skirt, a flank, but the elusive bavette must be known as something else?? in france, the surloigne, aka 'sirloin', refers to a completely different section than our sirloin which is part of the LOIN; therefore, describing a "bavette" as the undercut of the sirloin or as a thin top sirloin has 2 meanings!! whew!! & i thought describing different cuts would be easy!!!! the other thing to keep in mind (KIM) is different regions in the US use different terms, & i can only assume, the same is true "en France"

i'm not sure i follow?? meaning the food is pre-prepared?? as per my comments & observations above, i assume that if balthazar, or maybe pastis, were closer, i would go often, but to travel from uptown, diagonally across manhattan, for a 45 min wait, then to have to go all the way back, is somewhat exhausting. seems like its becoming a "neighborhood" place due to proximity, & a tourist "destination", & a stopping off for those that either work in the area or wall streeters making the short hop.

My favorite piece in France which when in the US I've been successful in ordering by asking the butcher to take say a standing side and leave one rib in and cut the beef to its maximum on both sides, eg up to the proximal bones, giving you an effective 2-2.5 times beef/bone ratio. Have I clarified or muddied the water? ← a) you would never muddy the water, & all comments always welcome b) believe i corrected myself above in that a côte de boeuf is a large 1-boned rib steak, & typically grilled - vs. - an entrecôte, which is a boneless rib steak. c) a côte rôtie is pretty much our (U.S.) standing 2-3 rib roast; however, it is "my" understanding that this cut is NOT served in France, therefore, the term, "côte rôti is simply the french translation of "rib roast" now, how's that for muddying the waters??? & btw, your cut described above must be some HUGE piece of meat!!!

sounds like we have pretty much covered the "french cuts". thanks to all for an excellent interchange. please feel free to continue the string if we have left something out, merci

a real "coq"!! now that is cool. look forward to the report

thanks to all. re: the other part of my topic: what makes these 2 places incredibly HOT long after each has opened. everyone i speak to has a gripe, too loud, too many tourists, somewhat overpriced, service mixed; BUT there are still crowded. i, for one, when i can take the crowd, love going. each is probably as close as one can get to a parisian brasserie without the air fare. do they have any competition? i can only assume keith is a genius.

just adding an observation: its difficult to not like the room, the murals make this an amazing setting, & the bar area is sublime. but what i have never been able to understand, the food, at best, is fairly average, particularly when comparing to other restaurants, but the prices, whoa!!! even on expense account, i still cannot justify. not even worth mentioning the wine prices. happiness would be able to bring a wonderful burgundy accompanied by a cheese selection & simply commander a table in the dining room.

i find it amazing, but when i go to either Balthazar or Pastis anytime after 6pm, they are basically crowded. as 8pm approaches, there are jammed. are these the only 2 brasseries in manhattan that experience this? many other bistro/brasseries do not approach this level of success. even with the growth in the meatpacking district, it has only added to Pastis's business, instead of bastardizing - now they take reservations in the bar area!! not even sure Balthazar still has their "secret" reservation number anymore, it doesn't really help. everyone waits, except, of course, p. diddy anyone else care to comment?

thanks Ned, but i think of coq au vin as more of a classique bistrot dish. ducasse/delouvrier's rendition not in this category, but appreciate the thought.

best I ever had was at Artisanal a couple or few years ago. initially it was "on the menu", then only a "plat du jour" sunday dinner, then disappeared! was a combination of both dark & white meat, i.e., i believe a breast and a leg in an amazing, very rich, very reduced, red wine sauce. since then, i have had coq au vin everywhere it is on the menu; but, never matching Artisanal. mission: where is either the best or something that rivals Artisanal's rendition. btw, was never crazy about any of t. brennan's 3, now 2, restaurants; but this dish made me forget the prices and the service.

out of curiousity, what is considered the "average" height & weight of a French male & female?