rancho_gordo

I think when you say "wrong", you end the conversation. And the other side has to come out swinging. I think the real issue, pointed out by your example, is how do you get the non-food obsessed to really care about food. The way to get the foodies excited is maybe by showing them neat tricks like cooking in your hearth, but your average joe would prefer to watch a cake challenge on Food TV. How do you get to him while still entertaining him? That's a challenge.

I didn't mean to suggest that an agent is the only way to go. For me, as someone who isn't a professional writer, having this advocate on my behalf, was invaluable, beyond negotiating the contract. Maybe I have a good agent but she did all the yuck stuff with the publisher that I didn't want to deal with. For me, and it's easy to say because I have one, I wouldn't do it without a literary agent. I just signed for my next book with a different publisher (this one's not a cookbook) and it really brought home how they speak a language I don't understand. But the old model is pretty creaky and my impression is publishers are taking fewer risks and there are lots of success stories of self-published authors. I think LOTS.

Perhaps nothing new here but an interesting read nonetheless. ← She took this thread of out of context. If I ever meet her I'm going to give her such a pinch! Maybe I'm wrong but I think most of us came to the conclusion that it's a very complicated situation. The author reasserts that AW is an icon beyond reproach. I prefer my heroes with capes and tights.

I'd just add that at this point, formatting should be a low priority. Once you get a deal, the publisher will give you a style guide. I think you need to get an agent. They'll want a few sample recipes but I wouldn't think a whole lot more. They'll want you to sell them the concept and why you're qualified to write this book. My hunch is a publisher wouldn't want to see a collection of recipes until you've convinced them that you're the bee's knees via a great book proposal and an agent.

I have a round disc salamander. yoU place it on an open flame while you putz about and when you're ready and it's hot, you place it on the sugar in a ramekin. I got it in France but I did see it at Williams Sonoma at one point.

JAZ wrote: I normally use those scissor-style tongs and don't have much trouble, unless the tortillas are funky. I think you did the right thing with the oil first. I'm not an enchilada expert but I don't know where that comes from. Jaymes wrote: But I wonder if they soaked up a lot more oil. That's been the reason for older ones, I think. And the 'tooth' would have to be different. Not better or worse, but different.

Changing subjects slightly and focusing on AW's influence, I think more than the localvore, she really was an early pioneer with an aesthetic. Some would call if California Cuisine, but I think that's not right because real Calif cuisine would have to have more Asian and Mexican influences, but it's a sort of anti-"Continental" French food that focused on ingredients instead of dishes. I still think this is where Americans fail. We want "recipes" without having to learn how to cook. I think her influence helped the Silver Palate, which made it even simpler and more practical for everyday cooks. A lot of times people are disappointed with Chez Pannise but I don't think they "get" it. It's only ambitious in focusing on what makes the ingredients the best they can be. they aren't try to knock your socks off with innovation or dreamy sauces. But I think the roots of an aesthetic were created at CP and I think this is really where she deserves a lot of credit.

Fair enough, though it's not like I haven't considered the specifics in my mind; until now, this topic hasn't really gone beyond umbrella-like considerations. Acknowledging that the local and industrial models both have flaws is the first step. As to dairy specifically, my understanding is that most grocery chains (and let's face it, that's where most people shop, and will continue to for quite some time) are pretty well localized already. Kroger, Safeway, Publix, et al, don't want to spend any more on transportation than is absolutely necessary. (All Publix milk products are bgh-free, and have been for about a year now.) ← Well there's a viable local model! I know you are reacting in part to the lack of science and religious fervor of the localvore side, which can seem indulgent. I go nuts with the "we have a right to food with no pesticides" mentality. What are we supposed to do? Shoo the naughty pests away as we ride around the fields on our winged unicorns? What about organic pesticides? Is growing a root vegetable the same thing as growing wheat? Feeding people is serious business and we have a huge amount of people to feed. But I can only see good in trying to include local production as part of the equation.

I really think you've oversimplified this. I have to say, it's this all or nothing attitude that makes me nuts. The issues for grains are not the same issues for livestock. Or tomatoes. There are some great examples of where science has made inroads that we should be grateful for and there are horrific examples of food gone wrong. A lot of people are eating better than ever, getting smarter about food and a few are actually making money, using viable local models of food production. ← I don't disagree that some people are eating better as a result of the local model. I know that I do, though buying beans from Rancho Gordo doesn't exactly fit that program. I'm saying that it's not a viable model for meeting global food needs. It's not a matter of all-or-nothing; it's a matter of recognizing reality and designing a solution that aligns with that reality. ← But you're not acknowledging the different needs. Grains, beans, bulk, yes to industrial. Grow them where they grow best. Meat is so messed up who knows how to do it properly now? Local vegetables and dairy make a lot of sense. It's worth exploring.

I really think you've oversimplified this. I have to say, it's this all or nothing attitude that makes me nuts. The issues for grains are not the same issues for livestock. Or tomatoes. There are some great examples of where science has made inroads that we should be grateful for and there are horrific examples of food gone wrong. A lot of people are eating better than ever, getting smarter about food and a few are actually making money, using viable local models of food production.

Have you tried Mammarella? Is it me or is it not so good? And it's very expensive. The box is just 12 oz and I think it's about $5. And I've tried it al dente and well cooked and everything in between and it's just gummy. But maybe it's a regional thing. Super packaging. Site

Just quickly want to add that many, many of the food items at the farmers markets in San Francisco and Napa (the 2 I'm most familiar with) are comparable in price to supermarket vegetables. As docsconz says, the prices are coming down as the farmers get better and their markets grow. On quality there is no comparison. I think this thread proves Waters to be a polarizing figure and maybe not the best face for the cause. I'd also suggest the lack of challenges on certain points shouldn't be interpreted as conceding the point but exhaustion. Some of these same issues we've been arguing about for years and I'm too tired (or the premise is too ridiculous) to bother responding.

Aren't there many, many reasons to support local food and local food traditions, even beyond mileage? I think so. I also think it might be cheaper to produce abroad when you throw away your whole infrastructure as you take on imports in order to take your excellent profits to the obscene profit level. I don't think you can make blanket statements saying it's good or bad. Growing wheat in Hawaii probably isn't the wisest idea. Of course, beans from anywhere other than the California delta should be illegal!! But where do hot house tomatoes from Holland fit in? They taste like crap and local tomatoes here in California sell for about $60 a ton. I'm all over the map on this one. I just wish there were more conversation and less speaking in absolutes on all sides.

1. I think Alice Waters is 100% wanting to do the right thing. I also think her long term goals are great and worthy of striving for. I also think she is a polarizing figure at this point. When she made the comment about the Nike shoes, she was right. Then she goes one step too far; "some of us buy food, to nourish ourselves" and suddenly she goes from a gotcha moment that really makes sense, to a holier than thou fringe element. Someone who pays hundreds for Nike shoes is just as confused about her as she is about them. But if she wants to make a real change, she's going to figure out how to include them in the tent. I don't think it's impossible but I think it may be beyond her talents. 2. Local is not an all or nothing concept. But in winter, if you have a local wild green that's edible, forage it. If you have a local cheesemaker who is stuggling, why not throw him or her a bone and buy a round? Try and eat fewer apples in summer and more local beets in the winter. It's a start and it could make a huge difference. Or don't, if you don't care. But stop using the I DON'T LIVE IN CALIFORNIA excuse. 3. Food Policy is where I think she needs to sit down. Didn't AW say that the school lunch programs nationwide should be upped by $5 per student per day? That's what I remember. She also said that eating food without pesticides is a right. Does she know that there are organic pesticides? Does she know how many people we need to feed? Does she know what it takes to bring a pesticide to market in California now? 4. Weinoo says, "Make that brown rice and Rancho Gordo beans and you'd have some real good eatin'!" and frankly, wiser words have never been said! I hear tell that Rancho Gordo beans are the Cinderella of the kitchen!!!!!!

I'll be honest, I don't think if I were having a dinner party for 10, enchiladas would probably be the last thing I'd make. I actually don't like cooking for over 8, but that's another story. If I were cooking for a crowd, I'd make a mole or some fabulous guisado thing or even tacos. But for myself or two to four people? As I think jmeeker suggested, once you get the rhythm down, it's a breeze. You can have the beans in your favorite clay pot, keeping warm for hours and a pre-made salad you dress at the table and then there's just the enchiladas. I tend to go left to right. Left burner oil, right burner sauce, counter with plates and to the right of that fillings on a bread board. . And again , not too much filling. The star is the chile sauce, followed by the tortillas. After cooking, I keep the oil in a beer bottle stopped with a cork and refrigerate it until the next session. Bits of sauce go into the chicken broth for a good soup. Sorry- I feel like I'm talking too much. There's no right or wrong but these are my tricks.

FWIW, I never bake. I have a small cast iron skillet of hot oil, just a bit larger than the tortillas, a small skillet of the gently simmering chile sauce and the warm ingredients at hand. Dip in oil, shake excess, dip in chile, plop on plate, add filling, roll and repeat. I wipe the tongs so the chile sauce doesn't splatter in the oil on the next go round. I normally do three per person and top off the dish with more hot sauce and some grated cheese and onions.

The eggs in SF are partly from demand. The few vendors that have them sell out early in the day, week after week. We have 17 chickens and my conclusion is that I don't understand. Maybe there's some weird health department fee or something. It boggles the mind. re food prices and the Big Picture, according to Pollan, the system is broken and on it's last legs. We're all going to need to pay more to make it work and benefit everyone. At least that's my understanding. He's not telling everyone, rich and poor, to buy $5 ramps. As a Bay Area native, my recollection is that Waters has been very much in the background until Slow Food. She had some great books and I think she made a canning video but you didn't see or hear her all over the place the way you have in the last 5 years or so. I think she is very sincere and I think she is very human and I wonder if it's hard for some who have made her an icon now hear some of her more human remarks and wonder what the hell she's doing. I think she needs some media coaching and needs to find a way to adapt her message for our times and really find out what makes people excited and bring it to a real food movement. When she did the egg in the spoon trick, I really think she thought she was going to impress people, not turn them off.

Above quote from the Rancho Gordo website sounds strangely familiar...was that website around 30 years ago? ← Are you crediting her for that? The localvore movement? I'm not saying she wasn't a part of it, I just want to make sure I understand your point. From Busboy: Then I owe her big time! Have you had them? They're no big whoop, as we used to say. And a horrendous yield. Come next winter, try the white runners we'll have and you'll be happy. I think I've seen true Tarbais for up to $30 a pound.

Have you made it without the tomatoes? It's pure chile heaven. I find the guajillos can be plenty hot. I'd add some anchos for body. Just some thoughts. I know tomatoes are delicious, but it's fun to see how far you can go without them.

Sorry. I missed the debate! What is it exactly that she did that has changed things?

I made them with chicken and some leftover tortillas I'd made over the weekend with purple corn. The purple corn is denser and chewier. Poached chicken and imported cotija cheese from Jalisco are ideal fillings.

I've done it more for moles, and not for chile sauces, but I guess it's mostly out of habit. Cristina? This method, with the fried puree and the oil dipped tortilla and finally the cheese makes me feel like I'm fat enough!

I think there's a standard "tooth" to enchiladas. The tortillas should be stale so they don't absorb as much oil and the oil should be hot and the bath brief. Then you can take your time with the trip to the chile sauce. I've heard of chile sauce first then oil but that sounds more oily than delicious to me. I don't think I've ever had it. I've had old tortillas start to break but just soften them up on a hot comal or wrap a stack in a moist tea towel and microwave. Not that you shouldn't go all out with what you cook, but I think the star of the dish should be the chile sauce. And clearly this is a "leftovers" dish. You make it with old tortillas, boiled potatoes, sauteed greens, maybe some chicken you poached earlier in the week, the ends of some cheese; whatever you have on hand. If you make a good chile sauce, I love them best with just cheese and raw white onion: My basic chile sauce is: Clean and the toast on a hot dry skillet 4 ancho chiles and 2 guajillos. Soak in warm water for about 20 minutes and then place the chiles in a blender with enough of the soaking liquid to keep the blades moving. Add a small chopped onion, Mexican oregano and some garlic. Blend well and the fry in some fat for 5 minutes. Thin with chicken stock or water and cook another 15 minutes or so. Add salt as needed and a touch of sugar if the sauce is bitter. That's my 2 centavos worth!

I hate to gloat, but I have it and it's fabulous. So many recipes and photos and lots of the photos are by DK herself, some just excellent. It's not going to be easy to cook with here as the ingredients can be so hard to find but there are enough things to make and certainly it's going to be a good food guide on the next trip. The use of yuca in one of the regions is extensive and appealing. And lots of beans, of course. Worth every penny but I think it's about 60 bucks in Mexico. It's big and substantial and I wouldn't be upset if I'd paid $100. eta:

It might be the very things that you don't like are the things that attract talented chefs (and talented people of all kinds) to San Francisco. It is the wild west. There are unattractive pale people here. There's an incredible history in this town that failed as a mission and yet thrived during the gold rush. We have an incredible history that is acknowledged and then ignored. I would argue it can be anything you need it to be and you can come here and reinvent yourself better than almost anywhere else. And you can eat like almost nowhere else.