Moopheus

I've used Nabisco cookies to make cheesecake crust, and will probably do it again someday. And you know what happens to the leftovers. But the thing about Sandra Lee is that she suggests that this is a complete method of cooking--you can just do everything this way. As if you'd have to be nuts to do it some other way. Have a whole dinner party! Guests coming over? This will _really_ impress them. I bet it will! Oreo Soup: 1 pound Double-Stuf Oreos 8 oz. Sour Cream 1 can sour cherries Cinnamon Pull cookies apart and scrape out filling into bowl. Whip filling in food processor. Add sour cream, using food processor to mix together. Thin mixture with juice from cherries, until the consistency of heavy cream. Drain remaing cherries and add to soup. Garnish with cinnamon. That's a recipe from a wonderful and sadly out of print book called JUNK FOOD. Sandra Lee would have fit right in.

Certainly one of the characteristics of what we commonly think of as 'processed food' is that it likely contains ingredients that a home chef would _not_ put in if making it fresh. Flavorings, stabilizers, preservatives, bulking agents and so on. And of course some subsitute products, such as cool whip, cannot legally be called the thing they are faking. Cool Whip can't be sold as whipped cream; it has no cream. If you're looking for something to serve as whipped cream and it can't even say 'whipped cream' on the package, that would seem to be a red flag. And there is an economic consideration--when buying processed foods, you're paying for the ingredients, and the processing. This is why cooking Sandra Lee's way is often more expensive than making yourself. Wonton Napoleans? Ungghhh...

She did the same thing in the infamous holiday cake episode--which is one I think even SL would have a hard time beating. You may have even caught her sticking her finger into the Cool Whip after she put it on the pie. I suppose it's possible she buys her eggs from a small organic farm that tests for salmonella, but it seems unlikely. Mottmott said: This is why I brought up the distinction between an ingredient and a 'convenience food'--something designed to be used like an ingredient, but with less work. And arguably basic staples like flour and coffee are processed to some degree. Chocolate is a manufactured product--it's almost impossible to make in a home kitchen. I use, for example, dry buttermillk, because I use it only occasionally and I hate wasting the leftover in the carton. Even though I know the consistency does not come out the same. We do have to make choices based on our abilities and circumstances. On the other hand, that dry buttermilk consists of buttermilk, and nothing else. So can we say there's a dividing line, or just a sliding scale?

Saw the 'dinner party' episode... pretty scary. Did not know you could buy premade, prepackaged mashed potatoes. Am not surprised, though. The chiffon pie was particulalrly appetizing with the addition of huge quantities of Cool Whip. My wife reminded me of th existence of a product called Dream Whip, which I'd forgotten about and thought was just sort of a cool-whip-like product, but is in fact dry whipped topping mix. The old cookbooks thread also reminded me of some old cookbooks I have here, that I picked up at a flea market. It is worth remembering that Sandra Lee is not completely unprecendented. For as long as there have been convenience foods, the makers have issued cookbooks telling you what to do with them. I have here a particularly nasty Campbell's book from 1951 and a brilliant Jell-O book from 1974. I'd say the photos tell all, but the recipes do seem to assume the use of lots of frozen, canned, and dry mix ingredients. I've also got "Quick Dishes for the woman in a hurry (322 recipes in 30 minutes or less)" that indicates that some concerns are not really new. So that we may bring our Sandra Lee-bashing to a proper intellectual level, it may be worth considering her 'historical context'. Is Sandra Lee merely the logical end-product of the convenience food tradition, or has some line been crossed somewhere? For decades, millions of people have made those Campbell's and Jell-O recipes, and many others like them, even after the Gospel of St. Julia and St. Jacques was made freely available to all. Convenience food companies sold their convenience, and wanted people to use their products, that was no surprise. But 'real' cookbooks, and TV cooking shows, remained relatively free of this; there was something of a divide. Are we offended now merely because she is so blatantly in our face, instead of in the back of the supermarket somewhere where she could be safely ignored? Also, Sandra Lee is unusual in not being oriented toward a particular brand or product or company, she's built a whole 'cuisine' around convenience foods. This, I think, is taking it to a new level, and perhaps accounts for her following. On the other hand, this suggests that since on some level she's "always been with us", that she always will be. Or someone like her. Also, it is worth considering the difference between a dry or preserved ingredient, which probably many of us use regularly, and a 'convenience food', which by its nature is designed to save time and steps--containing multiple ingredients mixed together, often but not always involving some amount of precooking.

I think my fantasy is more of a device than a food--there are days when I want my fridge to work like the food dispensers on the Enterprise--so that when I'm feeling lazy I could just open it up and find a perfectly prepared saag paneer inside. Of course hot, even though it's in the fridge. That's the fantasy part, I guess. "What do I feel like eating tonight? Oh, that looks good! Thanks, magic fridge!"

How does "Steamed Fig Pudding with Foamy Sauce" sound? (Campbell's, 1951--take that, Gordon Elliot!) And you really don't want to see the photo of "Tuna-Lima Bake" in Good Housekeeping's Casserole Book (1958) Quick Dishes for the Woman in a Hurry by the Culinary Arts Institute of Chicago (1955) has a 'cultural clue' in the form a drawing of a giant kettle on an open fire labeled 'soups', surrounded by what I suppose are intended to represent canninbals, beating on drums and featuring very, very wide white lips. (322 recipes in 30 minutes or less--guess some things don't change!) And I will have to try the Molded Potato Salad from The New Joys of Jell-O (1974, of course). Lemon Jell-O mixed with Good Seasons Italian salad dressing? Yum, yum. Can I have some more, mom, please?

Do you think that the difference in service might be because in some of these places, if you are not drinking, especially if you are not drinking wine, it's going to make a sizeable difference in the tab, and thus potentially the waiter's tip? I've been alcohol-free (I wouldn't exactly say "sober") for almost 20 years, and I've rarely noticed a difference, but some of it might just be avoidance of places where it might make a difference. Drinking tea in a Chinese restaurant or lassi in an Indian restaurant hardly raises an eyebrow. Most places have sparkling water, soda, or coffee available; if they have those San Pelerino sodas and apertifs, so much the better.

chocolate, coffee, and, uhh....

Can you be more specific about the restrictions you're referring to?

Preservatives in grain products are not strictly necessary. The bread, rice, and flour I have here doesn't have any. My breakfast cereal does. I'm not arguing that efficient transport is per se a bad thing. Unless you actually grow your own food, some transport is necessary. What I have a problem with is the overreliance on long distance transport that selects food for transportability rather than taste. For simple example, here in the northeast, apple orchards are common, and if you go to a farm or a farm stand or a farmer's market in a city, you can get excellent fresh apples, but in an ordinary supermarket, generally you can't, even in season. Even when the supermarket has local apples, you can tell they've been off the tree longer than the apples at the farmer's market.

Speaking of whipped cream, this is in the description of the Lemon Chiffon Pie in a current episode: "In a stand mixer or with a hand mixer, beat 1/2 cup of the milk and dry whipped topping mix in a large bowl for 4 minutes, or until light and fluffy" Dry whipped topping mix? What the hell is dry whipped topping mix? Why is this preferable to putting cream into the mixer and making whipped cream? Dry whipped topping mix! Dry whipped topping mix! Dry whipped topping mix! Dry whipped topping mix! Dry whipped topping mix! Dry whipped topping mix! I have to watch tomorrow to see this.

Not to mention the increased dependence of the farmer on the seed producer. Recently Monsanto has taken to suing farmers who save seed from the harvest of their crops, so that the farmers will be forced to buy new seed every year. And the farmers use those seeds because they're the only plants that will survive Monsanto's pesticides.

The technology to transport, preserve, and produce that wide variety of food has itself affected the quality of food, and not in a good way. Recent discussions on such topics as mad cow disease, farmed salmon, vegetarian eggs, and the Farmer's Diner wouldn't be issues except in a world of highly centralized production and long-distance transport. We're spoiled by having everything all year round, but often what we get is second-rate. I'm not saying transport should be less efficient, but that less centralized production would mean, generally, better food. Obviously, not everything can be produced locally everywhere, but There should be more room for locally grown food in the market.

Is a 16 percent return reasonable for a successful restaurant? How often do restaurants make that? A guy I know in Springfield (MA), a chef, lost his house because he financed his own restaurant with it. I've eaten his food, he can cook, but he had a lousy location. I, on the other hand, lost a small pile of money publishing a literary magazine. It's great take risks and pursue a dream, it really is cool when people tell you this thing you did is good, just don't put up anything you can't really afford to lose.

I might be able to make it to this. I'd like to meet you all and I'm always up for an excuse to bake. I'd be dragging the spousal unit along; she made me go ice skating today so she owes me one.

I eat my mistakes. I figure it's the only way to really learn from them. Plus, I'm usually not in a position to just dump something either. I guess I've gotten good enough now that most of my mistakes are still edible. I probably cook from a recipe most of them time, partly because I also like to try new things, though I also have what I think of as 'staple' recipes that have become familiar. Most recipes can be easily adapted for personal preference or availability of ingredients. Usually when there's a problem it's a failure of technique--didn't whip something enough, used too high heat, didn't use enough heat, etc. I've cooked to some degree or other most of my life, but it's really been in the past couple of years that I've gotten more serious about it and tried to expand my range and general food knowledge.

I basically agree with Mudpuppie. A lot of people get sick from food borne illnesses and contaminants. Food industries do not want people looking too closely at what goes into our food. But on the other hand, it is also true that mainstream news sources oversimplify the issues, especially TV news, who are mainly interested in a scare story. They have to have a scare story every night (one of the local stations, on a slow night, reported that escalators are dangerous). And of course, most people in this country are ignorant of science and statistics. So the message people get is that scallions carry disease, and they panic about scallions. They haven't got a clue what the real risk is, why there's a risk, if there's anything to do about it, etc.

I'd think that would be true of just about any kind of restaraunt. I mean, if they don't generally keep the public areas clean, what does that say about the rest of the place? And of course, if the employees are also using the same nasty bathroom and then going back into the kitchen? Which unfortunately brings to mind a really nasty diner I stopped at in Virginia once, which I won't describe.

My morning cup usually comes out of a one-cup Black & Decker machine that I bought years ago for my desk at work, so I wouldn't have to drink the awful office coffee. It uses a Melitta-type filter and takes about three minutes to make the coffee. I find I get good results if I use 2 tbs for a medium-sized mug. If I use 3 it just gets kind of muddy and unpleasant, and the wet grounds overflow the little cone, though with a lighter roast 2 1/2 works okay. I went through I little trial-and-error testing with the machine. Sadly, B&D no longer makes this machine.

I guess eggs aren't the only thing that gets scrambled once in a while.

The best espresso I've had in a restaurant was at Greens in San Francisco when I was visiting there some years back. It was rich and had that chocolatey undertone you describe. I had it with a plain chocolate cake, which was 'just' a chocolate cake in the same way the drink was 'just' an espresso. They were perfect together.

Strawberries and tomatoes come to mind. When I was a kid I wouldn't eat strawberries because I thought they tasted like artifically flavored strawberry ice cream. Even as a kid I knew there was something wrong with that. It wasn't until I was sent away to summer camp in the country that I found out what real fresh fruits and vegetables tasted like. Although we did have good corn sometimes--my dad was friends with one of the last small farmers in our town. Isn't it kind of weird that some people eat crap because it's what they're used to, and yet others reject food as bad, without really knowing that something better is out there?

I grew up with a cigar-smoker in the house; I'll never be able to regard is anything but a filthy, nasty habit. It really spoils my appetite if there's one in the room when I'm eating. Well, it's not always coffee--sometimes I'll just have soda or water, or of course a lassi in an Indian restaraunt, with spiced tea after. Okralet said: Actually, I would disagree with that; a good espresso should not be overly bitter. Bitterness in coffee means that the beans are overextracted, regardless of brewing method.

I called Egg Innovations this morning and had a nice chat with a customer service rep. She told me that the description of the vegetarian eggs on the web site's FAQ was wrong; the hens are cage-free. They've had some problems with the web site's provider not getting material updated and corrected. She wasn't aware of the error and was actually glad that I pointed it out to her. She was able to tell me that the floors of coops are chickenwire, so that the droppings can just drop. She said that the farmer's flocks are at least 16,000 birds, though she didn't know what the actual population density in the coops was (she agreed that overcrowding was bad for the birds). She did say there was some beak clipping, but "only the sharp bit at the very tip." They contract with individual family farms to provide the eggs, mainly from Mennonite and Ammonite communities in the midwest. In fact, she says they need more farms--they can't keep up with demand.

What did we have for dessert today? Did you make it, buy it in a store, get it after dinner at a restaurant or in a cafe? Was it good? Tasty? Interesting? Satisfying? After reading through the "making and eating desserts" thread I thought it would be interesting to take a cross-the-board state-of-the-dessert survey. My dessert tonight was pretty pedestrian--some chocolates from a tray of Ferrero Rocher hazelnut chocolates. One of those gift assortments, and it was in fact a gift. It wasn't especially satisfying, not terrible. We ate them. I hope somebody had better.