ludja

Thanks for posting the recipe andiesenji. The proportions look pretty close to Bill Neal's recipe (which I like alot)-- only differences are inverted proportions of white to brown sugar, and the addition of ~ 2 Tbs flour and ~ 1 Tbs rum or bourbon. I'm very excited though to learn about using cane syrup and feel I must try this soon. Also Squeat's suggestion re: Barbado sugar sounds great. I found out it is also called "muscovado" and is described as a rich dark brown sugar.

Along the lines of "twist on a perennial hors d'oeuvres" favorite as Toliver pointed out... A local restaurant makes a spicy pimentio cheese dip to serve with tortilla chips. (Not sure how they lighten the texture a bit, mayo? and then jalapeno's added for heat). It 's addictive!

Fascinating, Mayhaw Man, fifi and lperry. Especially interesting to hear about making the cane syrup from sugar cane. Also intrigued by the description of "sweet and smoky". I can also imagine that non-commercial pecans could make a difference. Some questions: 1. Can anyone explain the difference between Karo syrup and Cane syrup? I think I migrated to brown sugar recipes because I liked the taste and texture better than some I've had with Caro. (I use a recipe by Bill Neal) 2. Are "brown sugar" recipes considered "authentic" or is it very different from what would have been "traditional" at some time? 3. If I get a hold of some cane syrup, would I just sub it for caro syrup in a given recipe? 4. Are pecans sold in some parts of the South (say in Farmer's Markets, etc) that are billed as "wild" or "non-commercial" varieties? Do people know of differences in pecans from different places in the South and West? (Florida, Texas, New Mexico, etc) Found this link on different pecan varieties and some of their properties, but I can't recall from experience if different varieties were sold as such in North Carolina. Thanks!

Oven Braised Leeks with Cream (Chez Panisse)-- parboil, drain, cover with 1:3 chicken stock to cream. Add some butter, s&p, thyme and bake at ~ 350 to reduce cream and finsih cooking. Leek, Mushroom, Gruyere Cheese and Creme Fraiche filling for crepes

That's also why I thought pecan pie either originated or else flourished early on in the South--because pecans and sugar were native and in abundance. Also, British cuisine and traditions had a very strong influence on early Southern desserts--more so even than in other parts of the country. It would not be surprising that a sweet nut pie would have roots in other dense sweet nut filled concoctions from England. I have to say though, my favorite pecan pies, (and the only way I will make them) use brown sugar rather than corn syrup. I think there is a better flavor and texture obtained with brown sugar, butter and eggs rather than corn syrup. And yes, a little bourbon adds a great Southern taste as well

Are there some servers who are unprofessional or nitwits? Is there some postive correlation between level of restaurant and level of service? Are there different and appropriate expectations of service at a large chain vs a good neighborhood restaurant vs a high end city restaurant? Can one's expectations be overturned in either direction in any of these restaurant types? For me, yes, yes, yes and yes. What's the argument again? (it's probably more wise to sit on the sidelines... ) p.s. I like peppermills on the table whenever possible.

Thanks for the white fruit cake recipes artisan02, jackal10 and redsugar.... dried cherries in kirsch, stem ginger, dates, grapefruit peels.... intriguing and wonderful fruitcake ingredients in splendid counterpoint to electric red and green sugar plastic cherries... It is especially wonderful to get pesonal recommendations and recipes for something like fruit cake. It's a bigger commitment to make a fruit cake--in time and in ingredients. And, I think, it is harder to predict the success of a recipe before making it. Lastly, there comes, in knowing that people often traditionally make these each year, a somewhat mysterious sense of tradition and history that agreeably travels along with each recipe.

Thank you andiesenji for the generous sharing of your recipes!!! They both sound very good and unique. I love the idea of the ground almonds, coconut and pineapple in the white cake. While the applesauce, cocoa, walnuts and orange glaze sound fantastic in the cocoa version. Can I ask how you had the second recipe? Was it really handed down in your famliy? Do you know any history of it? When you mention ripening these in a cool place, is the fridge ok? (I don't have a cellar right now so I don't know that I'd have any other option). Thanks again, I'm definately bookmarking this under my favorites! ludja

I prefer other whiskeys and bourbons--but this would, on principle, infuritate me if I drank JD and stop me from purchasing it. It is pretty hilarious that they market on "tradition" with the accompanying idea of an old unchanging recipe. The reason they give for lowering the proof is ingenuous. It would seem to be purely to lower their cost of doing business. and is really an insult to any of their "loyal" customers. I guess they assume these people will just keep on buying it; hope not. In any case, "new customers" in a few years will know none of this. See this other quote in the article: Another 3% in a few years and they will have lowered the alcohol by 10%.

Has anyone made a "white fruitcake"? I've seen these mentioned in some Southern cookbooks that reference older recipes. I'm intrigued, but haven't tried one yet. They typically omit dark fruit and the common "fruitcake" spices. Bill Neal mentions some versions that use all egg whites rather than yolks--though he says he prefers the whole egg version. Add-in ingredients might include the following: ground almonds, chopped citron, grated fresh coconut, rosewater, crystallized pineapple. The liquor of choice: bourbon or brandy...

Good idea BeJam; The pepper jelly and cream cheese on crackers is a southern classic--easy and nice hors d'oeuvres for Thanksgiving. Looks even prettier if you add a few red jalapenos in there...

jalapeno salsa

I grew up in New England near the coast ( less than an hour) and never heard of this either. Welcome too, by the way, saskanuck. (your alias sounds like a New England name!!!). The first time I heard of this was in Judy Rodger's "Zuni Cafe Cookbook", mentioned more in the link to the previous thread above. Here's the recipe she has using salted glasswort or sea beans: "Sand Dabs with Shallots, Sea Beans & Sherry Vinegar" (Sands Dabs are a mild flatfish that are served a lot in SF; sub would be flounder or sole I think. She also mentions that the prep would work well with skate wing. Her "substitute" if you can't get pickled glasswort is capers. Thinking of places ones uses capers opens up a bunch of ideas for using it. Surprised that not many from the NY board have chimed in. Is this ingredient being using in Manhattan restaurants?

Was this actually Patricia Unterman? "food critic for three decades, writing for the San Francisco Chronicle and the San Francisco Examiner. She is also the chef/owner of the Hayes Street Grill. Her work appears in national food magazines, such as Gourmet and Food & Wine, and she publishes her own newsletter Unterman on Food six times a year." Looking forward to reading your new book!

Here are a few photos: european samphire photo second photo from Cape Cod

cigalechante recently posted an interesting thread re: procuring pickled salicorne on the France forum. Until I looked it up I didn't realize it was the same thing as "glasswort" and, I think, "sea bean". Thought I would start this thread in the Cooking forum and including all the different names in the thread title in the hopes that there might be more response. As mentioned previously, it can be used fresh or in pickled form. Seems to grow over a large part of the U.S. seaboard as well. Any experiences to share?

kew--thanks so much for the feedback on the recipie, including your tweaks to it. I'm glad that the recipe has "held up" with additional tries!

persimmon sorbet

This may or may not help you, but Judy Rodger's in her book, Zuni Cafe (egull-Amazon link gives $$ to egull if you order thru it) gives a recipe for making your own pickled "sea bean" or "glasswort" if you can find the fresh stuff. (The cookbook is very nice overall also...) You might be able to order fresh glasswort here:here. In terms of procuring out here in CA--she recommends farmer's markets as a possible source. I saw this article on a dish at Craft in NYC that also suggests a few specific farmer's markets in NYC. From what I can tell, it grows on the New England sesaboard so you may also have luck with talking to some people at Cambridge or Boston markets. If you know a restaurant that serves it, may also be possible to get info from them re: procurement. How are you thinking about using it? Has anyone else used this at home? I'm pretty intrigued with this ingredient but haven't tried it yet.

bread and butter served without a little plate (unless in a very casual place).

Sounds nice; although I might subsitute a silk chemise for the smoking jacket... or maybe a silk chemise with a smoking jacket... Agree that too sweet Sazeracs are an abomination.

Thanks for the additional background redsugar. Do you know what the filling is in the Pisingruv Tort? I hestitated to answer re: a use for the wafers b/c it has been a really long time. I think my Mom used them once to make a torte filled with a rich chocolate filling like that in a Dobos Torte. Maybe also finely ground hazelnuts added?

Thanks jackal10--the party was of course very fun to attend "virtually" and thank you also for the nice peek into some of Cambridge's food life. cobnuts! interesting never heard this term before but found out something via this link: all about cobnuts Just to clarify though--is the term hazelnut or filbert used also? From what I understand from the link; only fresh (green?) hazelnuts are called cobnuts? Thanks again and hope the rest of the semester is good.

Hi winesonoma, They're listed in Bean's link, but the classic drink with Peychaud's Bitters is the Sazerac. Made friends with these down New Orleans way. Excellent complex cocktail. Here's the recipe I use: 1 tsp Herbsaint or Pernod* 1 lump sugar 3-4 drops Peychaud's bitters strip of lemon zest crushed ice 2 oz Bourbon** *Herbsaint is from N.Orleans but Pernod is easier to find & v. similar **Interestingly, in New Orleans a lot of bars we went to use Rye...? First time you make these you should figure out how much of the anise flavor you like. A way to start on the low side is to put in serving glass, swirl around and then dump excess out. Place lump of butter in bottom of glass and moisten with bitters. Crush cube; add lemon peel and dry crushed ice. Pour Bourbon over and lightly stir to mix. Sit out on wrought iron balcony, listien to the blues and slowly sip... (or just picture this in your mind.)

Dear Ms. Johns, Thank you for participating and also for the nice introduction to your lovely part of the world. I wondered if the explosion of Italian cuisine propogated outside of Italy has had any reverse effect or influence on Italian restaurants and/or home cooking in Italy? In other words, has Italian cooking abroad in places like New York, London, San Francisco, Sydney had an influence that is discernible? If so, has it been mainly to help reinforce the goals in Italy's own Slow Food movement or else also to bring changes in style to some dishes? Also curious if some aspects of classic "Italian-American" cusine ever successfully took root back in Italy. Any examples? Thank you very much!