HKDave

It's the money. Name a job with worse working conditions and longer hours (and good luck getting paid for all of them - you'll start early and finish late every shift) and lower pay than a jr. line cook. You have to love it to do it, but there simply aren't enough people like that any more. So a lot of the people that stay in the biz are those that can't make $2k a month doing anything else... often, not the cream of the crop. At the start of my class at Northwest, only about half of the students had firm plans to work in a kitchen. Strangely, some of those that didn't plan on it are now on the line. Out of 19 culinary grads in my class, 4 are still at school (pastry), 9 are in kitchens somewhere, and most of the rest I've lost track of but many are probably not in the biz. The average career in a kitchen lasts (according to a Vancouver-based industry headhunter) less than 3 years. I remember talking to a cook when I was on the line in a Vancouver restaurant, who had graduated the year ahead of me. He was smart, skilled and a very hard worker that had recently been promoted, and obviously loved what he was doing. But was going to go leave the biz and go back to university because he said that there was just no way he could make a decent living out of cooking. That's the reality. You aren't going to get the best of the best for $2500 a month.

I spent a long time doing research and checking references before I chose Northwest, and I was happy with my choice. It's not fancy, but there is no fluff, solid instructors, and a focussed student body. If I had unlimited time and was a BC resident, I would have gone to VCC. I observed one of their classes during dinner service for their restaurant, and talked to a couple of the Chef/Instructors, and was impressed. But it's a long program, and they invariably have a portion of the class that's just there because it is cheap rather than because they want to cook. All you need to get in VCC is (I think) a pass in Grade 9. Plus they have a serious waiting list. But it is the most thorough culinary education you can get in Vancouver, and is a massive bargain if you're a BC resident. I got that same 'Dubrelle grads = prima donnas' comment from several chefs, and wrote Dubrelle off the list early. My attempts at communication with the school reinforced that. However, I have to say that all the Dubrelle grads I've personally worked with in a kitchen have been good. I have no idea what's happening in the new era with AI. I didn't hear anything good about Pacific's culinary program from anybody (I did hear some good things about pastry, but that's not what I was after). I was told that they spend a lot of time cooking for their retail outlets, at the expense of learning - and that this (or something related to it) had prompted some of their students to picket the school in the past. I was unable to verify this - anyone know that story? If anyone out there is selecting a school, my suggestion is to ignore fancy facilities and any promises of student/teacher ratios and all that crap. Spend some time talking to the students (if the school won't let you do that, write them off) and if possible, to people in the biz who have hired their past grads. And find out how long your potential instructors have been teaching, not just how long they've been cooking. I ended up choosing Northwest, which was less than a year old at the time, based mainly on the instructors' experience and reputation. I wasn't disappointed. Before you run off to culinary school, spend a shift or two in a real restaurant kitchen during service, even as a dishwasher or just observing. School, at its best, is only a pale imitation of reality. You can graduate from any of the above schools and still be pretty useless in a kitchen, and you also can graduate from any and (potentially) be a great cook. Much depends on you and what you are willing to put into it.

Just got back from a few days in Bali. We were staying at a private villa with some friends in Sanur, a quiet area near a non-surf beach. Many expats in the neighbourhood. Loved it. Two recommendations: Bumbu Bali - Tanjung Benoa, Nusa Dua, tel 771256. Yes, Chef Heinz's cooking school/restaurant/hotel/catering company. The school is worth doing, but I would give the optional early-morning market visits a miss - not very interesting, unless you know nothing about Asian spices. The class itself is more demonstration style but you can get involved if you want to. They cover a very large number of dishes in a short time, and the emphasis is on authentic Balinese recipes rather than 'Javanese' (which in Bali means 'from anywhere else in Indo'). And you'll get a fantastic meal out of it. If you want, you can get non-cooking spouses/friends to show up when the class finishes around 2pm and they can join you for lunch, just make sure you (unlike me) arrange this with the Chef in advance. The class is not at Bumbu Bali restaurant, it's at Chef Heinz's Rumah Bali villas just down the street. If you're looking for a place to stay with a kitchen, check it out - they have full villas with kitchen for $60, or without for $40. And you can even rent a Balinese cook to go with the kitchen for your visit. If you don't want to go to school, they serve the same (excellent) food in the restaurant. Details on everything here: http://www.balifoods.com/ The Village - Jalan Danau Tamblingan 66, Sanur, tel 285 025. Italian food in Bali? It's not cutting edge Italian cuisine, but considering we're in Asia, they do an excellent job. It's better than most Italian restaurants in Hong Kong that cost 4x the price. We averaged $20 a head for 3 courses and wine. If you're after a full-on white tablecloth meal and don't want to pay hotel prices, this is a great choice. Edited to add: Re the question upthread about money, best thing is to use the ATMs at the airport inside the baggage claim area. There's one machine that says "Rp100,000" (that's worth about US$10) on it. Use that machine or else you'll get a huge stack of notes.

I always thought it was considered a lunch staple. My usual pho joint usually doesn't have any left by late afternoon. ← In Vietnam - Saigon, anyway - banh my seems to be more of a breakfast/lunch thing. My usual banh my cart in Saigon (on the sidewalk across from HSBC bank in Distrist 1) opens at something like 6am and is sold out mid afternoon. Cost is about 20 cents. In Vancouver, I like the banh my at 'Ba Le', on the west side of Main, near Georgia. One with everything will set you back $2.50.

This topic has come up before.... The rib muscle toward the loin end is more tender. This is the 'prime' end of the rib primal, and includes (depending on who you talk to) the last 4 to 6 ribs. The remaining larger ribs towards the chuck end are 'standing' ribs. In Canada butchers aren't allowed to label or sell these as 'prime rib', and there's a price difference. Not sure if such a rule or difference exists in US. If you find that the loin end is too lean, you're buying lower grade (=less marbled) meat. In the better grades, there should be plenty of fat flecked inside the muscle at both end of the primal. The 'prime' in 'prime rib' has nothing to do with the grade 'Prime'. If it's graded Prime, your butcher (and wallet!) will let you know. You won't find much Prime grade meat at retail. Good photos showing the difference here: http://www.askthemeatman.com/what_are_the_...grades!.htm Re the comment upthread that "Most beef hangs for 30 days between slaughter and final conmsumption" - that's simply not correct. Most beef isn't hung at all, but is broken down into primals, bagged in cryovacs, and shipped the same day it gets slaughtered. The 'aging' it gets is in the truck on the way to the store. In the US it is usually on the shelf 2-4 days after slaughter. Your chances of finding 30 day dry aged beef anywhere outside a very small number of specialty butchers or packers (most of whom only supply restaurants) is close to zero. When I'm shopping for prime rib roast, I go for bone-in, loin-end roasts, from the top 2 grades (Prime or AAA in Canada, Prime or Choice in the US). Because grades don't seem to exist here in Hong Kong, I buy Certified Angus, which is a private grading program that's roughly similar. And I always look at the meat, to make sure I'm getting nice marbleing. Even within two roasts of the same grade, there can be significant differences in marbleing. The smallest you can go for roatsing is 2 ribs, and even that's pushing it - you get much better results roasting at least 3 or 4 ribs. There is no such thing as too much. Leftover roast rib is dee-lish. If you're just doing a 2-rib roast, you're better off grilling or browning it like a steak, then finishing it in the oven until you hit your desired internal temp. Remember a 2-rib roast won't increase in temp after you pull it as much as a big roast would, so don't leave it resting for too long - it'll just cool. I use the Alton Brown home-dry-aging method, and it works, but you have to be very careful. Depending on your fridge temperature and bacteria level, you might find it 'ages' too rapidly and you could be forced to cook it a day early. Method is here: http://www.goodeatsfanpage.com/Season5/Roa...tTranscript.htm or more concise version here: http://www.goodeatsfanpage.com/Season5/Roast/RoastRecipe.htm Note in transcript that AB also goes for loin end roast. For cooking, definitely use a thermometer. Artichoke's method upthread is classic for conventional ovens. These days I use a combi oven (steam + convection). I brown first, then cook very slow at a low temperature / low steam so there's little shrink and the roast stays juicy.

I'm still a big fan of the Pink Pearl. Not exactly downtown, just a few minutes drive down Hastings. Cheaper and less classy than the Imperial, but I like their food better. Plus they serve dim sum from 9am (vs 11am at Imperial, and I think 10am at Floata), so you can have it for breakfast. One of their nor mai gai (sticky rice in lotus leaf), maybe some fried squid, and a pot of po leh tea, and I'm ready to face the day. The breakfast of champions.

Very sorry, I'm weeks late in replying... I am back in HK, digging out from 4 months of not-taking-care-of-business while I was in school. Sorry I missed doing a round of 'good-byes' but my last week in town (which was the week of the above posts from nwyles and *Deborah*) was crazy, with final exams, graduation, and family obligations. I'll be back... My favorite slab-o-cow in Vancouver was the prime rib at Rex. They hold it in an Alto Sham oven and it delivers the goods. I never did try my favorite steak (bone-in prime rib steak) anywhere in Vancouver. Re steak doneness, the Canadian Beef Info Centre does a great, simple wall chart and pocket-size waiter cards showing in photos and describing in words Blue Rare to Well Done. I wish more places would standardize on tools like these rather than making their guests - and sometimes staff - guess what each other is talking about when it comes to doneness. At one Vancouver restaurant that I'm not going to name (ok, it was Cafe de Paris, but under a previous owner) I sent a steak back 3 times and they never did cook it right, and I never went back as a result. The cards are available here: http://www.beefinfo.org/OrderCentre_eng/Pr...ONSTUFF&alert=1

Scordelia, you don't say if you want to cook the leg whole, or cut up. Jamie's advice is good for cooking it whole. If you don't have as much time, an alternative is to de-bone the leg, being careful to remove all the silverskin and glands, then cube the meat making sure you cut the muscles against the grain. I did one a couple weeks ago for the first time, it's not difficult if you have a non-flex boning knife. Then brown in batches, deglaze and braise. About 1 hour braising time, depending on how small you make the cubes. If you're using home size pans, you'll need 2-3 frypans. I did mine as a goat and spinach curry - after browning, remove the goat, add cumin seeds, add and very slowly carmelize an onion that has been processed with a bit of garlic, ginger and chile, add garam masala, add the browned goat, a bunch of chopped fresh spinach and a cup of chicken stock. Cover and slow braise 1 hr until goat is tender. Finish w/yogurt and chopped herbs.

I have to agree with Xando Head. Even eating at the Fairmont, or at the airport anywhere outside the US transit area, involves clearing Canada Customs into Canada, and pre-clearing US Customs to get back to your gate. I've had up to 1 hour waits at each, and that's not including the time many years ago when a uniformed psychotic at US Customs searched me and my luggage for an extra hour because I asked him to stop verbally abusing 2 confused senior citizens. You can take a look at the line at Canada Customs on arrival before you decide. If it looks relatively short, and you already have a boarding pass for your flight out of Vancouver (so you don't have to wait in a check-in line) I think you could squeeze in a 1-hour meal at one of the less fancy Chinese restaurants on 3 Road in Richmond and still make it back to the airport 2 hours before your flight. Conservative timing would be: 6:20: land Vancouver 7:00: be in taxi rolling to restaurant on 3 Road, Richmond. 7:20: arrive restaurant 8:25: rolling in taxi back to aiport 8:45 back at airport in US Customs line, with time to spare. If you're not in a taxi by 7pm, I'd say forget it and stay at the airport. On the way back, get the restaurant to call you a taxi a few minutes before you need it so you can move fast. Which restaurant on 3 Road? The popular and cheap Hon's Wun Tun (4600 3 Road, 604 273 0871) has reliable Cantonese food and is very fast. Ba Guo Bu Yi is a good bet for Sichuan (8130 Park, 604 273 8888) as long as you let them know you're in a hurry. A non-Chinese option would be the Flying Beaver. It's more of a pub than a restaurant, but it does have a full menu and the location is right on the Fraser River with a great view. And it's very close to the airport, less than 10 minutes by taxi, so traffic is not an issue. http://www.markjamesgroup.com/restbrew/fly...yingbeaver.html

I've always had the egg drop when I was younger. Then again, younger doesn't mean too much when I haven't hit 18 yet. :P ← Beef and tomato was standard in the old-school Cantonese restaurants in Vancouver in the 60's and 70's, but I don't remember ever getting it with egg. It was just beef, tomato and that sweet sauce.

Very late reporting in here... it's practical exam week at school and I've been neglecting my eGulletary duties. Last night at the stoves will be Monday, and the week after it's back to Hong Kong. The Vera's burger (bacon/cheese single patty full dressed) I had Sunday was close to perfect. They said they would only cook it well done, but mine was still nice and juicy in the middle. One six oz patty was big enough, I'm still trying to figure out how Vancouver Lee managed to finish his double (and fries and 2 sodas and ice cream)! Even though I had overdone it on the garnishes, it still kicked the Red Onion's or Fresgo's butt, and was basically a match for Feenies. A great burger, at a decent price. But. Purely in the interest of research, I went again to the same Vera's last night, and the burger just wasn't as good. It was a more typically overcooked to the point of dryness patty (although not as dry as Red Onion), and somehow, even though I ordered the burg. garnished same as before, it tasted very different. Plus the place was seriously dirty - every table had crap on it, even though there were only 2 customers in the house. Nobody cleaned anything while I was there. Anyway, the funny thing that Butter alluded to: after the Sunday burger, the 2 of us were talking to the cook, and told him we thought that his burger was as good as Feenie's. He had no clue who we were talking about, even though we tried to explain ("You know, Rob Feenie, the chef at Lumiere, the Iron Chef winner etc ?"). It was kind of refereshing. Clearly no hero worship in that kitchen.

Ultimately, if we don't want to remain in denial about this problem, there are 2 directions we can go. We can follow these 'do not eat' lists, most likely with some heavy help from government regulation and import restrictions (otherwise it probably won't work). This mean we will see far less seafood available, and that at much higher prices than today. Imagine what will happen to the availability and price of wild trap-caught Pacific prawns if we all stop eating imported farmed prawns, as the list suggests. Or we can accept that the day of wild seafood as a major food source will soon be over, just as happened with wild game meat over the last couple hundred years. We are simply consuming wild seafood at an unsustainable rate, and this will continue to get worse. Nobody would pretend that we could all stop meat farming and go back to trapping and hunting. This is happening in the oceans now. If we want to eat seafood in the future, we need to develop workable aquafarming practices. Oversimplified arguements like 'farmed salmon bad, wild salmon good' miss the point. It could soon come down to 'farmed salmon maybe possible, wild salmon not possible'. The old days are likely not coming back for coastal fish stocks any more than they are for the herds of buffalo that used to roam the prairies. Even if C Restaurant, or Vancouver eGulletters, or Canada as a whole follows the 'do not eat' list, there are a lot of countries with fishing fleets that will continue to strip the ocean until nothing is left. There are an increasing number of mouths to feed. That said, I applaud what C and the few other not-in-denial restauranteurs are doing, and I hope the program takes off. Educating the customer has to start somewhere. Bravo.

It's been a serious week for eating out. The Delectable Ms. A is in town, so we're going out every night. This is a big change from a normal week, where I ... um... also go out every night, although sometimes forget to eat. Sunday and Monday night I was busy pretending to be a cook, so it was staff meal (chili) in the kitchen at Aurora Sunday, and (very good) leftovers toward midnight at HSG Monday after the wine dinner finished. All week at school we were cooking different Asian themes - Monday Thai, Tuesday our own menu (in my case, a pork loin, butterflied like a porchetta roast and stuffed w/Thai green curry spices, then tied and slow braised in coconut milk - tasted great but my plating looked like something done by the lunch cook of a coffee shop of a 3 star airport hotel in a small town in Illinois), Wednesday Japanese, and Thursday Indian (yummy goat curry) - so that's what was for lunch on each day. Tuesday night was Guinness at the Heather, with their fish and chips for TDMA, and later on, a healthy life-affirming burger and poutine for me at Fresgo. Wednesday was another 3-restaurant dinner: Umami for apps, HSG for cocktails, and Parkside for mains. Martinis at each establishment, just to maintain a theme for the evening. Umami is the perfect app restaurant, and those deep-fried spaghetti snackies they have on the bar must be dipped in crack, they're so addictive. The food at Parkside was just perfect. I had the duck confit, which was essentially a deconstructed cassoulet. TDMA had poached salmon. Nothing overly complicated or silly, just excellent ingredients, with every element of the dish perfectly prepared. Why was this restaurant 2/3 empty, and the tables mainly occupied by tourists? Parkside isn't cheap, but for what's on the plate, it's good value. There should be line-ups here. I aspire to being able to cook like these guys. Thursday was Tojos. I've been a customer since the Jinya days, back sometime in the mid-80s, but haven't been here in more than a year. As always, come with a full wallet, sit at the counter, and let Tojo choose. I lost count of the number of courses we had, but there was only 1 that TDMA or I had ever seen before (golden roll), and in most cases I couldn't tell you what we had beyond Tojo's minimalist verbal description (like "shitake mushroom", or "sablefish", for a plate with 5 or 6 things on it). Everything was mind-blowing. Even more amazing, the couples on either side of us were mostly getting different off-menu dishes than we were. It was about 50/50 raw and cooked plates. The highlight for me was the millet crusted halibut cheek, or maybe that crab sushi that was hot on the inside but cool on the outside, or that one of the 2 sauces with the first course that I couldn't even guess one ingredient of.... Tojo still rules. It's absolutely beyond me how people come up with negative reviews of this place. I guess if you ate there once and ordered off the menu, you might not get it. I've never looked at his menu. The whole point is to see what Tojo comes up with. He hasn't disappointed yet. Walked back across the Cambie bridge and stopped in at HSG for a cocktail, where we ran into 3 different parties of eGulletters. Tonight I think we'll take it easy.... or not. PS I'll second Vancouver Lee's report on the Keg on Thurlow... went there a couple weeks ago, and food at The Keg - or this Keg, anyway - is not what it used to be. Nice decor, friendly staff, but lame food. If you're near this Keg and want prime rib and it's a weekday, instead go to Rex Grill at the Bentall Centre.

Thanks all, great info. Four votes for Maria's makes it the winner. I'll post a report after the weekend.

My parental units want to be taken out for their 40-something anniversary to somewhere that has good, old-skool Greek roast lamb. Any suggestions? I used to like Athene's on Broadway but the new owners have totally cheaped out and the food is nothing like it used to be. We're talking big chunks of dee-lish falling-apart, oregano salt and lemon rubbed slow roast lamb, not little bits of souvlaki, not slices of crappy shanks coming out of steam trays like the cheap Greek restaurants do. I don't care if they do anything else on the menu well. I don't care about 'authentic'. It's all about the roast lamb. Baaa. Any reports?

The only decent Sichan food I've had in this area was at Ba Guo Bu Yi. I haven't tried their mapo tofu, but based on the rest of Madame Yu's cooking, that would be the first place I'd suggest. 8130 Park Rd, Richmond, tel 604 273 8828

Having used a Chef's Choice to sharpen many other people's knives, I'll second that. A Chef's Choice makes more sense than paying for sharpening, and it's beyond me why more people don't use it. Maybe it won't give you a better edge than an experienced expert with hand stones and 15 minutes of work, but it gives damn near as good a one - in about 30 seconds, without training. Don't use the the roughest setting on the 3-setting model unless you've really toasted the edge of your knife, as it does remove metal.

Prompted by comments upthread, I hit Rex for some meat last week. About 8pm on a weeknight, place was almost empty - a girl's night out table in the bar, and a quiet deuce in the corner. Just one friendly waitron and the friendly bartender, who turned out to be one of the owners. Seems they basically work the Bentall Centre suit and tie lunch crowd. Small but serviceable dinner menu. I had a Caesar salad and 12 oz prime rib. All very good, except that the meat was medium, and I had asked for med. rare (and had been assured that they did indeed have it thus). I wasn't surprised. Given how slow the room was there's no way they fired a whole rib roast for dinner so I was probably eating rib that had either been reheated or had been held in a combi for a while. It was still tender and tasty, and certainly beat the pants off The Keg 'prime' rib. Reasonable prices for the quality. They mix an excellent Martini - or should I say, they mix a Tanqueray Martini exactly the way The Delectable Ms. A does, which is how I like them. I'll be back.

Did the short ribs at Feenie's for dinner tonight. Damn good, but they came on a bed of seriously undercooked lentils. Unusual slip for a kitchen this good. Yesterday afternoon I healthily (is that a word?) walked home from school but managed to somehow darken the door of the Heather on the way, even though it certainly does not lie in between my school and home, and as a result somehow ended up consuming several pints of Guinness. Then stopped at Chambar just to remind myself that I don't like it much - very good venison tartare, unusual poutine, undrinkable gassy Belgian beer (Duval - why do I keep ordering it?). Then a quick stop at HSG for the usual ritual abuse and a martini. I understand most people don't go to 3 restaurants in the same night for a solo dinner. Whatever. Monday night I was working, so ate castoffs from whatever the evening class was cooking- some quite good cream soups guzzled from water jugs in the dish pit (oh, the glamour of it all), plus lamb trim. Sunday night hit Random Restaurant on Davie. I had cioppino. Not bad at all. This is an intriguing little chef-owned restaurant, low profile but worth checking out. Sunday morning was the mixed grill at the Tomahawk: 9 pieces of that great bacon, 2 eggs, a burger, shrooms, cheese, onions, potatoes, toast, salad and probably some other stuff I forgot. Even though breakfast is the most important meal of the day, I couldn't finish it.

That place on Hastings everyone remembers selling horsemeat was called Best Bi Meats. It's been gone for years.... I've had horse sashimi, and it didn't do much for me either way. Horse fat is supposed to be the ultimate for french fries, but I've never (knowingly) tried them.

Sorry for being so late posting my Red Onion report but I was in the kitchen until 11 last night... I had a bacon cheeseburger. Nice char, but the burger was cooked past the 'safe' point. Too dry, no juice left. You can cook a burger 'safe' and still have some juice - see the Feenieburger. Personally I'm happy to take the risk on a medium burger (ferchrissakes, I eat things like steak tartare and raw oysters and sushi fairly often, and restaurants are happy to serve those) but Red Onion, as with most other places in North America, won't do it. Bacon and cheese were great, good flavours and not skimpy. Cheese was grated but not melted (patty had cooled before cheese was added - it was cold in there), which meant a lot of it fell out when I picked the burg. up. I liked the slightly crusty bun. Too much lettuce for my taste. I asked for raw onions, expecting a few rings or even a thin slice. But they chop their onions into squares, which may work for grilled, but are too onion-y raw. Plus they put the onions on the bottom (under the lettuce), so almost impossible to remove once you find this out. Sauce is basically French's style mustard. Very good fries. We got chili on one of the fries, which was a hit. They also had some hot dogs on the menu which looked very interesting. If I'm in the neighbourhood again, I'll be going for their grilled dogs and fries. I liked the atmosphere of the place. Price looked good at first, but doesn't come with fries or toppings. Once you've added those, you're at normal burger prices. I'd rate this burger as under an Earl's or Fresgo burger (my reference standards in the 'we only serve it well done' category), and not in the same league as a Feenieburger (by far the best I've had in Vancouver, but it is $13, plus usually a few Martinis in my case).

I'm desperately trying to erase the mental image of Neil pouring caramel sauce over himself. Last couple of days, working backwards in time: Tomahawk for breakfast today. Yukon style bacon and eggs. Of course. Ba Guo Bu Yi last night with the 'rents and kid bro for dinner. Thanks to all the folks who have suggested this one. Very fine. Madame Yu rules. First time I've had authentic Sichuan food since China. As often happens, there was some good stuff happening that was not on the English menu. I'll be back often, despite the long bus ride to the wilds of Three Road. If there wasn't Burger Club tonight, I'd be there again tonight. Seriously. Stopped in at HSG on the way home for verbal abuse and Martinis. Breakfast yesterday was a 'Special' omlette at Fresgo. The indicisive tourists behind me in line asked why I ordered that one. "Because it's special, of course!" Like everything else at Fresgo, it's not bad, it's not expensive, and there's plenty of it. And it's one block from my hovel. Dinner Friday... I was working at a catering thing that evening, so after school I darkened the door of the Heather for a couple pints of Guinness. Then on the way to the gig stopped at The Only for a quick bowl of chowder and a fried oyster in the company of crackheads and transsexuals. Lunch Friday was a bag of Hawkins Cheesies, eaten in front of my Chef/Instructors at school, while explaining "I needed a break from that French sh*t we cook all the time." (I was in a grumpy mood about my mid-term practical results). Hmm, I haven't exactly been cooking at home much.... tonight is Burger Club so that's not about to change.

...but they would obviously be under the influence of powerful narcotics. Seriously, I was last at Schwartz's in October for my annual dose, and unless something has happened since then, they still rule. Their smoked meat (and fries, and pickles, and that thin-cut standing rib steak they do on the 'you could never get a permit for this today' charcoal grill at the counter) were as good as ever. My only observation was that 'medium' seemed leaner than it used to be. I'll openly admit to being biased, I've been going there for 40 years. But I've tried many other places in Montreal. The lineups outside Schwartz's are there for a reason - and it sure ain't the fine service or snappy decor.

Still laughing about the 'darkened door aftertaste'... [topic drift]Chef, on this we must disagree. Comperable to The Main, maybe, but not Schwartz's, in either texture, colour or flavour. Schwartz's is deeper red, less watery, slightly crumbly, more smokey and far spicier. Phat's is similar to the decent factory (Coorsh, etc) smoke meat served at restaurants all over Montreal, but it's not Schwartz. The Main is useful if it's really cold and [theoretical situation] your hot new girlfriend, with whom you are willing to compromise your most fundimental principles in order to have conjugal relations, doesn't want to wait in the long line across the street at Schwartz.[/theoretical situation] But I'd dump her on the spot and wait in line at Schwartz. YMMV. Amusing thread here (note the nature of the forum - I just found it on Google, honest!): http://www.merb.ca/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=5851&page=2[/topic drift]

I'm a fan of this stuff, too. You can find me at the counter at the 'mohawk on most Sunday mornings. I always thought that their bacon was cured and smoked rolled pork butt, but that 'country ham bacon' in the link above sure looks like the right thing. Notice that the 'mohawk only frys it on one side?