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I completely agree with you about starting high profile and then moving into mainstream, though there have been exceptions. But right now since we have Suvir's restaurant as a live example, I'm referring to the variable of Price with respect to effecting a change in no. of covers/billing, and how will diners react to the change. No doubt some will be offended in the process but the objective here is to fill up the restaurant. i'd need to know more about the specific market. i have ideas based on New York and Philadelphia, and some more based on China and Hong Kong. Plus readings about other markets. But wouldn't really suggest anything without knowing more about the local market. I have been enjoying these 2 interlinked threads. I would like to give credit to the author of the report linked to evolution of, "Indian Hotel Coffee Shops". from the Hindustani Newspaper it was extremely well done. My personal experience in this situation is that my firm was involved in various aspects, especially all the internation chain operations. Our initial overwhelming experience with a 24 hour Coffee shop, operation was located in the "Hong Kong Hilton", it was unique due to the fact that it was located next door,at street level to the only .Public Parking Structure in Hong Kongs Central District. When it opened it was the only 24 hour, sit down Euro/American style restaurant in the entire Colony. From opening day the gross volume of sales was 5/10 times the most optomistic projections. This was in a small, overcrowded in reality nothing more then a second thought of under utilized space intended to accomodate hotel guests for simple snacks. The interior looked like the most mundane american diner,coffee shop Blah at it's best. The food in my opinion, except for a few items. "SUCKED". But when something isn't broken, doing better then any rational explanation all that can be done is to expedite whats right and let it keep going. Iy actually was so busy that it continued for years. This project was a 'Dale Kellar', design that was a last minute add on. It wasn't done with the care, or budget considerations with the rest of this property where everything else was more esthitically appealing. This was evidenced with the more respest provided to projests thru out Asia and India in the future. My rational for all moderate coffee shop, diner operations has always been and still continues on the premise that begin with your general customers [especially the locals] Nursery Type Foods, definately including 'Street Foods". Somehow I pushed a button or something with my one fingered typing method and to contine have utilized the edit function. Where often Management differed from utilization of our concepts was in the methods of application of the Street Foods and Nursery Foods Concepts. We always aspired for the absolute best preperation of the REAL THING. Taking into consideration that the overall kitchen capabilities, higher pay for employees, superior ingredients we anticipated renditions of the items served to be at least as good or better then most. Well this didn't happen, to much of management felt Nursery Food, ment their personal preferences. Since most were imported from locations all over the World, either by price or rarely by experience or competency this was often a mess. In the aspect of Street Foods, we had to deal with the Noveau self importance of Locally employed management who often were inclinded to put their nose high up in the air as if they were to important or sophistacated to be ever at the level of some one who even would consider Street Food. These 'BIG NOSED", types are the main reason for the majority of screw ups, nothings changed. Now returning to the 'TOPIC". Why charge so much for inexpensive typical ethinic foods? I'm the first one to profit on the concepts that I couldn't get the Management initally to follow. I opened a Restaurant in Hong Kong, that charged for that market outrageous prices for some items, that seemed to be very cheap. But we made then all exactly as our intended customers anticipated they should taste, that with only 72 seats we averated 300/400 lunches daily on the second floor of a commercial building. It's still in business after 38 years. How it operates now i've no idea, since I sold my interest in 1972. But it's still going. Continue to serve dishes that you've enjoyed at home. But always attempt to prepare them at your best correctly and delicious. Don't ever adapt Street Foods, or most dishes into what you think the market reflects. If you do so then clearly state on your menu that this dish is made especially for your special customs, but you'd be DELIGHTED to prepare it authentically. The World is getting smaller, customers travel or try to travel thru their stomachs. Realize this and cater to them. Never take any customer for granted. The only good customer is one who returns. Never look down upon anyone, it backfires. Most important. Remember YOU run your Restaurant. NEVER let it run you. As a previous poster stated you may sometimes pay a high amount for some part of your menus dishes: IE: buy Lobster for $20.00 have to sell for $30.00. Yes that can happen, that why you need to balance your food costs by having items that you charge higher for but cost less. Remember it doesn't take much skill or experience to cook and finish the Lobster, plus it a $10.00 mark up. Your $6.00 item that only cost you in food cost may only cost you 1.25. BUT remember that the skill, effort, ablity to please by this dish are a profit you've earned. I'll be glad to reply to any questions that have come, due to my posting. Irwin

The renovation of the International Market Place has been predicted for a long time. As you may know, there was a big move to tear it down in 1988 in order to build the new convention center. A that time, it led to militant opposition among small vendors, many of whom are first-generation Korean immigrants. They went to the State Capitol and presented a petition, signed in their own blood. . . I remember many members of the local Korean community, including my mother, being very active in the anti-renovation movement. At any rate, the attempt to renovate was defeated, and the convention center built on the old Aloha Motors lot (which was more suitable size-wise, anyway). I am not sure this time why there isn't more opposition. It seems the owners have done a better job this time preparing the merchants and laying the groundwork politically. '>Here is an article in the Advertiser about the renovation, though it doesn't really go into depth about the reaction of the merchants. It does however quote David J. Kenney. the owner of Captain Zak's, the place with the giant marlin. Naturally, it's sad to see somethings that's been a part of Waikiki for many decades to pass into history - I'll miss the small carts, the candle-makers, even the haggling. You were a friend of Trader Vic? What was he like as a person? I was just about to start a new topic on this forum comparing and contrasting Hawaiian Regional Cuisine and Trader Vic-style "Tiki Cuisine". On a related note, tiki culture is making a big comeback . . . Martin Denny is still around and is giving a show this week with a neo-Tiki act called "Don Tiki". I definitely remember Lisboa - though I was too young at the time to go there (or be invited there). Lisboa was probably the single most innovative restaurant in Hawai`i during that period around the 1970s. I still remember reviews in the newspapers where critics would rave about your unique foods and wines that could be found nowhere else on the islands. In fact, even today, there probably isn't any place here that is willing to serve Portuguese cuisine in a first-class atmosphere, despite the large population of Portuguese ancestry. You were truly one of the pioneers. Thanks again, Irwin. We really appreciate your contributions. Hope to hear more from you in the future! SkChai: Thank you for your response. To me if and when there is no longer a "International Marketplace", Honolulu will lose the only remaining artifact of Island character in Waikiki. I'm aware of the "Kelly's', intention of rejuvenating the area around where the," Reef Hotel", is located. But this or any other project or so called improvement will not have a positive effect on the community. It appears to me that in the years to come, the only locals except for employees, who will be spending time in Waikiki will be visitors. I was also involved initially in the "China House", restaurant at Ala Moana Center, Honolulu's first restaurant to serve "Dim Sum", is it still operating. I'm proud of how successfull so many of my protoges have become since i've left the Islands. My former partner still resides in Oahu. I wouldn't be adverse from being involved again in a restaurant on Oahu, since so many former customers would welcome us back. All my children graduated from UH. I'm curious if my friends and author of my favorite Chinese Cookbook are still involved with UH. Flora L. Chang and her husband, who was a Professor. She co-authored "Five Treasures of Chinese Cusine", with Gaynell M. Fuchs. My two favorite foods I understand are very rare or unavailable. "Samoan Crab' "Hawaiian Red Shrimps or Prawns", were originally, caught in traps from the boat "Easy Rider". The sweetest and best tasting ocean shellfish. I used to enjoy "Trader Vic's", company he was a authentic character. I used to get him fresh boneless shin beef, from the Oahu Market, from Big Island Range Beef that he'd make into numerous dishes at his home near to "Hawaii Kai". He had a interesting manner, sort of okay i'm here and now i'm in charge that somehow never offended anyone. Very nice person. He always dressed in his own trader style. I've still got one of his Hat's that I'd complimented him abou, so he honored me by presenting it to me in exchange for a "Calfs Liver", from the market. We had a write up on Friday in the "whats Happening', section of the 'Seattle Post-Intelligencer", Newpaper, about a new Seattle Restaurant, called the "Islander Polynesian Cusine", with the, "Tiki Lounge". The reviewer coundn't decide if it's eleganty Kitschy or Kitschy elegant. It should be available on the internet. Irwin

JUDY: I've got about 600/700 in bookcases or shelves. The ones in boxes, I sought of know how to dig them out if necessary. My kid's all seem to feel that in some ways these Cookbooks, are part of what they consider home base, since their Mother continued collecting them where ever we lived, in NYC, Asia, Honolulu and Mendocino, California. When I moved to Seattle I promised to keep them, as they had such a strong identity to their Mother. Now when they visit, invariably they peruse the Cookbooks, and pictures with their children, reflecting on memories. They even seem to enjoy the more recent books i've accumulated, as somehow they realize that i'd only get books that their mother would have approved. If there's any Cookbooks, that your interested in that i have in my collection i'd be happy to loan them to you for, your perusal. Often many food or recipe related queries i'm able to answer off the top of my head. This skill I acquired during the period my wife and I, hosted a Talk radio show, called "Whats Cooking" in Nothern California where we tried our best to respond to viewers questions about any subject Restaurant, Food or Travel related, both pro and con. We even had many listeners as far north as Alaska. I have no idea if any would be considered treasures, as they all are special to us. I have followed the thread about the Time/Life Cookbook Collection. My wife was able to put them all together just before they stopped marketing them. Thank you for your interest. I hope that I may assist you. Irwin

I've just become awed by the approximate amount of Cookbooks, stored on shevles in various locations at my home. This does not include Memus, Magazines, Books and Articles that are stored in about 30 Cartons. My grandaughter required a project to supplement her allowence, so I requested her to the job of counting my Cookbooks. It seems that i've aquired in excess of 2000 Volumes. The majority were collected by my wife prior to 1988. I've only added about 100 since then. I almost never follow recipes, except as a referance, so they are rarely utilized. The one Cookbook, that I often just look at for the Pictures more then the content is my signed edition of "les diners de Gala",or "Gala-Dali Gastronomique", by "Salvadore Dali", in 1973 when he was 68 years old. I have the "English Translation" that was translated by "Captain J. Peter Moore", and publised by Felice, Inc. New York. The ISBN # 0-9600692-1-6 Since i've kept this Book in it's original package, but have perused it often as the Drawing and Photograpy are exceptional i'm curious if it has become a rare collectable book. It's very comforting to be able to look up most recipe preperations that I'm curious about but the one book that shows the way most often is, "Larousse Gastronomique', my copy purchased in Taiwan is a low priced bootleged copy, legaly available there when purchased. I've given my other original copy to my daughter. Irwin

Suzzane: The primary reason that egg is often combined with tuna, is that many people object to the fishy quality of some varieties of canned tuna. It also became more popular during the period when canned tuna became higher priced then the market place was accustomed to. It's also go's vice versa where some people want to give their egg salad a little zing. What seems unusal to me is how often 'Tuna Salad", means just add Mayo. The first time I was served Tuna Salad, without Celery or Something mixed in was at 'Subway". What i've noticed on the ingredients of some of these type commercially packaged Mayo/Tuna Blends is that they have added Bread or Cracker Crumbs mixed in without reflecting a reduced or lowered price. Irwin

SKChai, Rachel and Kimo: The way the 'Washington Saimin", became involved was that the owner of the original, "McDonald's" Franchise for the Hawaiian Islands, where the highest grossing McDonalds stores, during that time frame were located, due to 12 months steady high volumes wanted to serve "Saimin", and his personal favorite was the "Washington Samin". He also was the owner of the 'Foodland Supermarkets". Since he had the clout, and it added up to a interesting concept, McDonalds was willing to try. At the same time we were able to push for Portugese Sausages to be included with the then new breakfast concept. We simply arranged for the 'Saimin Noodle", provider to be able to increase his volume, and provide customized packaging for McDonalds. Ditto for the Fish Cake Supplier. The Soup Base was arranged for by the largest popular 'Ramen Supplier', who was associated with Aji-No-Moto in Jspan who operated hundreds of Noodle Ramin Shops in Japan, and later opened on in Honolulu on King Street, near the Movie Theatre. [don't know if it's still there]. This soup 'Saimen Base', is probably still being used. It was quite acceptable, very consistant. Wonder how many remember when a "New York City, "Papaya King', Hot Dog and Tropical Drinks concept opened at the "Foodland Supermarket", at Ala Moana Center?

Thank you for the information. What's your feeling about the Rebuilding/Renovation of the International Marketplace in Waikiki? I have several friends who have recieved official notification of pending eviction, after being in business for many years. I'd personally hate to see it dismantled. I was a good friend of the original Trader, who set up the tiki hut in the tree that used to carry radio broadcasts. Remember how Zulu and Hawaii 5/0 made the location a must destination to every touist. I was fishing on the charter Boat just the day before the Gigantic Marlin on display was caught My Restaurant was called. "Lisboa". We opened with Americas first Wine Bar, serving 15 wines by the Glass, We also introduced the Liquor Brandy Cart with over 150 varieties. Served Portugese, Spanish, African and the largest selection of local Hawaiian and Imported Seafoods. I was given the title of 'Hawaii's Mr. Restaurant", by the students at Kapolini Community College, and The University of Hawaii. We won many awards including Dish of the Year twice at the NRA Show in Chicago, and the Escargot Competition in France, where the showed my picture and said the winner was located in Honolulu, Polyanesia. never one word about the USA. I also owned and operated a Hotel, Restaurant, Bakery Food Service, Import Export Consultants Business before relocating to Honolulu from Hong Kong. Since we were, primarily Trouble Shooters, we were required to sign confidentiality agreements, no longer applicable since i've been semi-retired for several years. This business operated world wide, and still continues with my associates since 1965. We have been invlved with many operations previously on the Islands. Mostly Hotels. Irwin

I am in south Snohomish County and work in downtown Seattle. This tuna sounds interesting. Do you know of any markets from Snohomish County to downtown Seattle that carry this? Thanks for any help. Michael: Tuna Guys Tuna are available at all "Tops Supermarkets", "PCC's" and some QFC"s but at a higher price for whatever reason. Irwin

Mamster: Having worked on a survey about Plate Lunches, and especially the evolution of Hawaiian Stle Macaroni Salad. The Way the Macaroni Sald evolved was that the original purvayors of the Popular Plate lunches served all over the Islands, was something that started by the Okinawan Community. This was a method of preparing a cold salad type scooped treat, that was provided together with the 2 scoops of Rice. To make the Macaroni more palatable to local tastes some canned, locally packed chunk type tuna was added to the Macaroni salad, this is still generally done, with some places adding some chopped celery, shredded carrots or even peas, with the salad or elbow macaroni and mayonnase. Many Lunch Wagon vendors often purchased their hot daily specials from Caterers who provided the entrees, such as 'Brisket Stew. Oxtail Stew, Various Teriyaki's, Mahi-Mahi, Lau Lau, Bitter Melon, Salisbury Steak, Ham Hocks, Meatballs and Spaghetti, Beef Stew, Kalua Pig and Cabbage, Short Ribs, Spare Ribs and many other favorites. Most items had some type of Gravy or Sauce, and everything was served with 2 scoops of rice and macaroni salad. Irwin

At our restaurant in Honolulu, we used to serve at Lunchtime as a entree, and for dinner as a appetizer. "Tuna Salad", prepared tableside with Fresh Raw Albacore or Tuna with the wait person quickly pan poacing in a little olive oil, and white wine the filet, cooked to the customers requested degree of doneness. While assembling the prepared codiments of Capers, Hard Boiled Egss, Chopped Spring onions, Chopped Maui Onions, Chopped Celery, Chopped Cabbage, Shredded Daikon, Parsley, Cilantro, Shredded Carrots, Chinese hot Mustard, Dijon Mustard, Finished to order Mayonnase, Lemon, lime, Rice Vinager, Balsamic Viniger and White Viniger. It was very interesting the way regular customers, most who had never experienced anything but canned tuna for salads, [this included local residents] developed their own favorite recipes that we kept on cardboard cards available when ordered so the server appeared to remember exactly their preferances. Weserved this Stuffed into tomatos, on Sour Dough bread, Chalah, Hawaiian Sweet Bread or Seeded Rye Bread. It was a popular seller, that kept the pressure off the kitchen. We also made Crab Salad,and Shrimp Salad utilizing this service method. Irwin

OOOOPS ! I'm sorry I goofed and posted. the post i'd ment for 'French Butter" into the Garlic Thread. And in my case it unforgivable sine I prepared and served, what evolved into several "Garlic", events the first 100% Garlic Menu, for the 'American Produce Dealers" Convention on behalf of "Gilroy's Garlic King". The only item that didn't have Garlic, but appeared to be loaded with it was the "Fresh Apple/Cherry Strudel with Slivered Almonds", the almonds appeared and looked like slivers of fresh garlic. We were able to soften the almond slivers by poaching slowly in Frangelico Liquor, this garlic had a kick. Irwin

Not all 'French Butter", is equal to the Butters of Normandy. During the period of the 'European Common Market", the various countries would basically dump products at very low prices to the Asian markets. There came a time during this period when we used to order Butter from Europe, at prices comparable to Lard, thru the brokers. We were fortunate being able to buy "French Normandy Butter [unsalted]", frozen delivered to Hong Kong for prices per Metric Ton delivered as low as $450.00 = 2240 pounds or about 50 cents per pound. The first time we removed this butter from storage, and presented it to our Cooks and Bakers they immediately called us to come and check the Butter, as it wasn't frozen. They were concerned that if our whole shipment was delivered in this condition that it would quickly become rancid. We went to our Cold Storage Warehouse, and checked all the Customs documents, as well as the stored Butter product. It was all appearently solidly frozed at about 10 degrees Farenheit. We opened one carton and brought it back to our Kitchen. Check the temperature upon arrival. It was at 24 degrees Farenheit as we drove back in a non-airconditioned car. To everyones amazement the Butter, was so rich that even frozen it was spreadable. We compared this with 'Danish Lurpak" Butter that was frozen, and thawed in our refrigerator. The Normandy Butter spread as good as the refrigerated Lurpak. The frozen Lurpak, was solidly frozen and had no spreadability. Ever since then i've been enjoying French Normandy Butter, whenever it's been available. I hope that they don't change the forumla for the export markets. Irwin

There are several internet sites. One offers the product at a very high price. If you tell me where your located i'll try to find where it's available reasonably in your area. In "Seattle" the prices varies by as much as $2.00 per can from different markets. Irwin

The percentage that Restaurants sometimes take out of servers tips is only the amount of your gross charge made by the Credit Card Company for the total amount of any Guest Check that INCLUDES YOUR GRATUITY. There really no reson for them to absorb costs that they receive no benefit for accomodating customers. I always take this into consideration when I add a gratuity to my charge card. They also have the additional expense of allocating all gratuities received in this manner to the servers account. Some restaurants even go further, by braking down all credit card charges into the percentages that servers allocate to Bartenders, Busboys, and sometimes kitchen. This is provided at the expensive of business to meet the IRS criteria. Please keep this in mind when you utilize your charge card for any extras. In rounding out pennies, this is something that's been done in many places for years. Most often as a customer convienience. It's generally set up on computers to customers advantage. But started during the penny shortages, prior to general computerization and has continued. Irwin

No Matter what you use to make your sandwich. The best canned Tuna, anywhere is "Tuna Guys", located in Gig Harbor in Washington State. The use only "Albacore", caught on their own boats. It's hand filetand hand packed with no additives, water or oils. The only way its done is a solid piece packed in the tin, with a small amount of salt, and it's own rich Omega Oil [each tin contains 2200mg of Omega 3 per serving]. The Tuna is the closest tasting to fresh Albacore available. It's delicious flaked or done anyway into a salad, or sandwich preperation. They also have a Smoked Albacore and several other products as well. Irwin

Having been involved with the Restaurant business in Hawaii, since 1965 there has always been one major difficulty in operating any restaurant. The problem has always been the RENT. It seems that the only operators, even in the local markets, have been those with enough capitol to sustain chain operations, or that own the real estate or even more rarely have a landlord interested in keeping a long relationship with the same tenant. Even operators with small square foot business, most likely have had to relocate thru the years. A good example is the very recently closed, "Washington Saimin", posted under a seperate thread of "Saimin". I operated a very successful Restaurant for many years in a lousy location, that we choose not to renew our lease at a increase in rent of over 300% per month, after 10 years in business. This was at a time that business wasn't doing well in Hawaii. When it comes to rent's this doesn't seem to matter. Right now all the tenants located for years in the "International Marketplace", in Waikiki are being forced to move out, primarily because of Landlords greed. Especially upsetting because so very little remains of what used to be the "Old Waikiki", except for the Market Place. Of course since the Landlords said that the Giant Banyun Tree, will remain, Zoning quickly agreed. Of coarse no one realizes that this is the only properly Tacky remainder of Movie Hawaii on Oahu, soon to be no more. Look whats happened to Institutions like the "Flamingo Restaurants", or the "Columbia Inn", thru the years. The biggest loss to me was the "Willows Restaurant", anywhere else it would have become, historical and preserved. Certainly not closed. Another place that was lost to Landlords greed, was the visitor from Seattle, that had become identified with Waikiki for so many years "Canlis Restaurant". Landlord wanted 500% + increase in rent. Irwin

Sorry to learn the "Washington Saimin', has closed. I'm curious if "Mc Donald's", in Hawaii still has "Saimin", on their menu? Mostly because of the fact that before it was incorperated on the Mc Donalds menus. the original franchise holder for the Hawaii Mc Donalds, prior to starting Saimin on their menus, took several Mc Donalds Consultant's to Washington Saimen, to introduce this dish to them. Since I was part of the team, and the only Honolulu resident involved I hope that they'll be remembered everytime someone orders Saimin with their Big Mac. They copied but never equaled the noodles quality. Irwin

The only items that I often prepare in Bulk that keep well is the "Tomatos Sauces", if sealed in a good container, with additional layer of plastic wrap, with some olive oil covering the top, to prevent oxidation it will keep several weeks. The other item that i'll prepare for utilization is Garlic, diced and mixed with butter, vegetable oil, or olive oil as a base for cooking it stays in ready to go condition for several weeks as well. Onions, Herbs, Peppers or Veggies are okay if made the day before using, if stored correctly in seperate air tight containers. If they will be used for cooking then if they are partially sauted, and left in a sealed container with the fat's used in sauteing they will be okay refrigerated for several days. Irwin

Thanks Nick: I was part of the first professional foodservice team that tested the Infra Red Underfire Broilers introduced prior to the NY Worlds Fair in the "Gas Pavillion Restaurant". The original demonstrations provided to show how fat the worked, were actually done with toast. For your use at home i'd recomment starting at the farthest distance from the heat source, as the infra red heat often will penetrate better, with a thicker cut that way. If your cooking closer and wish a more charred surface, then make sure to keep rotating the meat, to permit the jucies to be more evenly retained. One thing always consider removing your items being broiled away from the heat source and allow them to rest and set, turning often, for the juices to move around inside the meat. Then return to heat and finish cooking. Always use a good set of tongs to move anything your broiling. 1st for safety, then for not breaking the surface of what your broiling, keeping the juices intact and finally as you become more experienced using tongs you will learn to be able thru pressure to know the degree of doneness for anything your broiling including chicken. Just as a sidebar. When we introducded the Infra Red Broilers, we received complaints about not serving any peanut butter or jelly. When we intrroduced "Micro Wave", cooking with the "Rada Range", by Raython, it was considered more interesting at the NY Restaurant Show, as the two items we cooked in paper plates were 8 oz. Whole, dressed "Rainbow Trout", and "Baked Potatoes", with nothing but plastic forks. There were long lines of Restaurant Professionals, overwhelmed and awed by the demonstration. It was difficult to keep them moving along. Irwin

My recommendation for you to become familiar with your broilers capabilities is to do as i've always done. Everytime we'd show a cook experienced with Regular underfire broilers, or flame, charcoal type broilers to familarize them with the heat follows: NOTHING IS BETTER THEN "WHITE BREAD". Simply taking the bread and putting it at the different burner levels while watching how long it takes to toast, plus observing the deapth of the heat, into the toast. It's quick, teaches respect, not messy. After you've tried that, then follow with the Fat Guy's recommendations. Irwin

Raynickben/Tommy and others: I'm quite aware of all the posts reflected on this thread. As with most threads if often drifts away from the original post. Several of us have posted several responses, including myself. I took into consideration that certain things appear obvious. With Raynickben, it was appearent management didn't give a damn. Staff was either oblivious, indifferent or following instructions. Again, no attempt appeared to have been made to discuss the situation with whomever was in charge. In your position, with nothing being in writting on the menu, I personally would have done as one of the other posters suggested. My way or no way. If they had any one in charge, they should have appeared, made a exception, and promised to clearify there policy on future menus. Or you could have done, as you did streighten out with everyone, after putting the charge on one credit card. If you had simply divided the $450.00 by the 9 diners it would have adderd up to $50.00 per person, them tipped a additional 10% to total $55.00 per person, paid part in cash, the balance on one credit card it wouldn't have required as you've stated a long time figuring out everyones charges with staff standing around waiting to close the table. Everyone would have been happy, and you would have left in less then 5 minutes. It's possable that management was aware of the whole situation, decided this wasn't going well for them, wanted the money, and wrote of your table for repeat business. That's not my way. But as i've explained we clearly stated our policy on every menu in large clear type. Where there was a situation similar to yours, we made sure that it was concluded satisfactory, even giving treat bags for being so patient, even though we really expected no one from the group to return, but we felt better. On our menus we stated that with parties of 6 or more a gratuity was to be added to the bill, we also advised that we accepted multiple credit card charges. We also required that every customer order a entee for dinner or would be charged a minimum charge= to our lowest priced entree. Another policy was that all entrees must be ordered before any appetizers as they were served family style shared. Sometimes there were party's that looked at the menu, then decided to leave. We realized this would occassionaly happen, but there were generally others waiting for their table. Every restaurant that i've been involved in is still in business, doing well. or out of business due to buildings beeing torn down, or leases ending. My contention as expressed the "Industry in General", is called a service industry. But there are various types of service. It's how every oporator choose to reflect the type of service provided to customers. It's unfortunate, but it has become more important for management to keep employee turnover low, buy backing workers more thene in years past. No longer is the customer always right. When employees understand management will back them insituations where they are right, plus understand their problems in doing their jobs successfully they are more loyal, and work for you longer. In fact many FOH & BOH personel now look at the business as a profession. Any employee like "Tommy", is fantastic, but extremly rare. Everytime i've been fortunate to find anyone with his ethic's or attitude they have been promoted, trained and now work all over the world at the peak of the foodservice profession. Irwin

Going back to my original post: We did not force the waitress to be a "book keeper" as you put it. We clearly wrote the 4 names and amounts to be charged to each card and the other 5 paid in cash which was presented all at one time. Furthermore, we do know how we're going to pay before we go. Some people bring enough cash and some people never pay in cash...as long as you pay for what you eat who cares? We go out as a group often and never have we had a problem until that night. Raynickben: Get real 9 transactions to settle a lousy dinner check for on group? Minimum amount of time tying up server, neglecting other tables is about 15 minutes. I'm sure this will effect the service and tips received from the other tables at the station. DUH !, that's what generally happens when some table pulls this type of deal. Be sure that with jiggiling Charges, Cash, and Tips, with 9 guests, your server can't help but to end up screwed. That's why i've noticed customers whom are enjoying them selves delagate one person to use their credit check. Then he's reimbursed with the cash, or personal checks from the rest of the party. With a party of nine this simple transaction requires 5 credit card charges, with authorization, plus re-authorization after the tips are charged, then waiting for the response. finally closing the check after entering the cash. No matter how you do it your srvers still doing more bookeeping for 9 guests, then for 5 tops of 2 guests, plus the tips and appreciation, with smooth service and customer satisfaction. I'm also pretty sure that you and your party felt "PUT UPON", for the inconvienience and the wait to close your check. Irwin

Being a New Yorker I haven't gotten over the shock of "Seattle's", favorite way to enjoy a "Kosher Corned Beef" Sandwich. It's generally expected that your going to order it on: Unseeded Rye Bread, Cold with Mayo, Lettuce and Tomato. They don't have a clue what deli mustard is, of coarse if you request it hot it's zapped in the Microwave. Same goes for "Pastrami". Would that get a reaction at "Katz's' or the 2nd Ave Deli. ? It gives me the creeps. In NYC, Hong Kong orHonolulu I never received a order like that. Ever! Irwin

There are places for People who are more concerened about paying the dining. They are called "Cafeterias", or "Fast Food", or for more special occassions maybe a chain "Coffee Shop." All expect to provide seperate checks, most are paid, COD, or give you your own ticket. GO THERE. Restaurants that you go into as a group, to share and enjoy a dining experience, socialize or celebrate a special event. They in order to do a "SATISFACTORY", job trying to coordinate the timing of your meal, with severs spending the dime to expedite and keep things moving along smoothly must pay attention to your group. There is no way that the Kitchen, Servers or anyone else will be able to do a decent job if they are also expected to be your bookeeper. If your going to a restaurant , before why not arrange how your going to order, pay bills, etc. So that you can enjoy yourselves. Spend your time having a experience. It doesn't matter what the Menu states, it much more important to have a good time. I've been dumb enough to pick up the whole tab, just to avoid any pain=in-the- ass. But i've then told off those that annoyed me. It was worth it. If anyone was irritated by my beghavior, I was glad, since I didn't care to go out with them again. Irwin

Night Caught "Parrot Fish", are the easiest to spear or net, as they settle themselves up at a quiet drop off the reef. After settling in at night they cover themseves with a cover of mucilege or saliva, that appearently offers them some sort of protection from most things, except divers with lights hunting for them. They are easy prey. Often netted, and kept alive in tanks for live sale to chinese seafood restaurants. Irwin