Chinese woks and cleavers

[Dejah]

All-Clad woks are not carbon steel - they are the same multi-ply construction as the pans, SS-Aluminum-SS - so they would not need seasoning and will not rust.

The kind of wok you are looking for, a standard carbon steel wok, does and will.

I'm not going to buy All-Clad woks because of the price. But, if price was no problem, would this SS-Aluminum-SS construction be superior to the standard carbon steel wok?

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A lot of the "superiority" of a wok depends on the heat of your stove.

I stand by my carbon steel one even tho' I have an electric stove. If I'm patient, it gets real hot before I add the oil and ingredients.

I saw the price of the All-Clad and experienced palpitations! It looks so pretty I would never use it in case I scratch it!

[sizzleteeth]

I'm not going to buy All-Clad woks because of the price. But, if price was no problem, would this SS-Aluminum-SS construction be superior to the standard carbon steel wok?

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Each would have it's own nature and that would be a matter of opinion.

The All-Clad would be easier to take care of - but that doesn't make it better. Carbon steel has a cooking nature, like cast iron, that simply cannot be replicated by SS. Heat source, as stated above, would be a factor to consider with either.

If you get the a carbon steel wok you have to give it love, don't wash it with soap and oil it after every use.

I suppose it depends on your level of commitment - for me it just became second nature to do so - I don't even think about it.

[sheetz]

I think you're talking about the All Clad chef's pans, which are essentially flat bottomed woks. We got one for my mom as a present and I think it works pretty well for what it is. And it's true that you wouldn't season these because the cooking surface is stainless. You would only season carbon steel or cast iron.

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Here is the All-Clad take on woks:

http://www.chefsresource.com/all-clad-round-bottom-wok.html

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Thanks, I didn't know about this one. I prefer the design of the chef's pan instead.

[WHT]

www.heartlandamerica.com e3-64611 40 Pc. Kit including some stuf you may never use.

[Ben Hong]

I guess I am a traditionalist and a dinosaur and a stickler for authenticity. I have not and will not ever use anything other than the cheapie carbon steel woks. The thinner the better. I may be all wet, but I do think that carbon steel adds a unique flavour to the food and cooked with the proper respect to heat and timing, it also helps me achieve that ephemeral essence of a well turned Chinese dish called wok hei. In my experience, nothing else will do quite as well. Apparently 99% of the Chinese restaurants and their chefs feel the same way. WOK = carbon steel.

But I have nothing against anyone keeping the economy rolling by spending big dollars.

[WHT]

But I have nothing against anyone keeping the economy rolling by spending big dollars.

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I put it out as an idea if the person was looking for a one stop solution. Some people may not live near Asian stores. It looked reasonable for limmited or first time users.

I myself prefer tempanyaki style to wok use but that is a little hard to pull off in an apartment. though I guess a half inch of plat steel over one of my burners would work to that end...

[chappie]

Speaking of >50,000 BTU, there was a thread here or in the old Adventures in Eating forum a few years back about someone finding a mega-power burner overseas and having it shipped here from, I think, Thailand.

Does anyone know where this thread is?

[sizzleteeth]

it also helps me achieve that ephemeral essence of a well turned Chinese dish called wok hei. In my experience, nothing else will do quite as well. Apparently 99% of the Chinese restaurants and their chefs feel the same way. WOK = carbon steel.

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I don't think many would argue with you Ben, still, the existence of such a $200 wok would imply that a few might.

Leviathan - it is indeed T&T - if you are back in the area sometime I would suggest a closer look. They supply many of the Chinese restaurants on Valley I'm sure.

Seems Sam Woo always has a line out the door, tonight they had several whole pigs to roast hanging out back. I keep meaning to try that place, I know it's somewhat of a chain but it looks/smells incredible - and the line is the only thing keeping me from it.

Edited February 13, 2007 by sizzleteeth (log)

[Ben Hong]

You can go to any Walmart or similar store and buy big burners for under $50. The people down in the south use them to fire up their turkey fryers. Be aware they are NOT to be used indoors. Unless of course you are planning a major renovation.

[sheetz]

Or, if you aren't impressed with the All Clad woks, you can invest in a high powered induction wok.

http://www.mingspantry.com/comsooncookm.html

[hzrt8w]

I noticed that on that web site, the All Clad wok is currently "out of stock". They must have been selling like hotcakes and they run out as soon as the shipment arrives, I am sure.

[sizzleteeth]

Or, if you aren't impressed with the All Clad woks, you can invest in a high powered induction wok.

http://www.mingspantry.com/comsooncookm.html

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That's a little steep - I believe you could do it for much less.

Even the the higher end of the Sunpentown Induction cooktops (1400 watt) are less than $300 and the lower end ones are barely $150 - I've seen brands I don't recognize around here for $50.

Induction requires magnetic material, magnetic steel or iron, which carbon steel generally is (stick a magnet to your wok). So in theory even a flat bottomed $10 carbon steel wok would work on a less expensive induction unit.

That is also one of the perks of the All-Clad version of tri-ply vs. say Calphalon, the SS they use is magnetic so even though they have an aluminum core they are still supposed to be usable on induction units.

Though that 1800 watt unit that holds the fully rounded bottom looks interesting.

I've seen induction in use in several of the restaurants on Valley, particularly the Chinese hot pot (think Shabu Shabu style) places. There is one in particular that uses Yin/Yang pots at the table - one side filled with a mild soup and the other side spicy - set on an induction unit. So an induction wok seems not so far-fetched.

Edited February 13, 2007 by sizzleteeth (log)

[sizzleteeth]

Here you go, $15 - made in Taiwan - very heavy construction, you might even have a hard time lifting it full of food. Unless you have your heart set on a fully round and a ring, though if you just have a conventional burner - a flat bottom might be better for you anyway. I actually stopped by and took a second look just make sure I'm sane, but they are basically the same thing you would find elsewhere - if not a grade better.

The coating will be difficult to scrub off, you will need a metal scrubber and a few cups of coffee, only take it off the inside - then season.

Wow, I'm starting to sound like her - I'll have to drink some Bourbon and have cigar later to counter balance. Though I suppose smoking and whiskey are things Martha Stewart is fairly acquainted with. Nor did I ever in my life think I would be advocating the purchase of any high quality cooking vessel from K-Mart - but I suppose there is a first time for everything.

You can order this from anywhere in the country.

http://www.kmart.com/catalog/product.jsp?p...pCategoryId=913

edited to capitalize "Bourbon".

Being from Kentucky - I wouldn't want my license to be revoked.

Edited February 14, 2007 by sizzleteeth (log)

[hzrt8w]

Here you go, $15 - made in Taiwan - very heavy construction, you might even have a hard time lifting it full of food.

http://www.kmart.com/catalog/product.jsp?p...pCategoryId=913

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The wok on this web site looks very much like the one I bought from The Wok Shop. Maybe they are from the same manufacturer? Or maybe Chinese all make woks the same way.

The web page shows a 14-inch wok. I use a 16-inch. I think 16-inch is better if you ever need to cook for more than 2-3 people or to fry a big fish. 14-inch is a bit small, but it is easier to toss the food with.

[sizzleteeth]

The wok on this web site looks very much like the one I bought from The Wok Shop.  Maybe they are from the same manufacturer?  Or maybe Chinese all make woks the same way. 

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I wouldn't be surprised if they were the same manufacturer.

I believe this wok is 14 gauge like the heavy carbon steel ones on the Wok Shop website.

With the K-Mart one - most anyone can walk in from small town America and inspect for themselves. Where I'm from, K-Mart, Wal-Mart and to some degree Sears at one time were the primary source of everything - you didn't have much choice - though these days that is not so true.

Edit:

I saw links to more expensive options already exist in the other threads as well as links to the Wok Shop - should have read them before hand before repeating.

http://www.wokshop.com/HTML/products/woks/woks.html

http://www.wokshop.com/HTML/products/cleav...ers_knives.html

Edited February 14, 2007 by sizzleteeth (log)

[sizzleteeth]

The wok on this web site looks very much like the one I bought from The Wok Shop.  Maybe they are from the same manufacturer?  Or maybe Chinese all make woks the same way. 

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I wouldn't be surprised if they were the same manufacturer.

Scratch that - the carbon steel woks on the Wok Shop website say "Made in USA".

The world is crazy.

The Wok Shop is selling American made woks in Chinatown...

And Martha Stewart is selling Taiwanese woks at K-Mart.

I think I'll have that Bourbon now.

[Dejah]

The wok on this web site looks very much like the one I bought from The Wok Shop.  Maybe they are from the same manufacturer?  Or maybe Chinese all make woks the same way. 

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I wouldn't be surprised if they were the same manufacturer.

Scratch that - the carbon steel woks on the Wok Shop website say "Made in USA".

The world is crazy.

The Wok Shop is selling American made woks in Chinatown...

And Martha Stewart is selling Taiwanese woks at K-Mart.

I think I'll have that Bourbon now.

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[leviathan]

I've heard about how that a normal house kitchen won't provide the same heat as those in a Chinese restaurant, so you'll never get the same flavors. But, isn't that also true for Western dishes as well, where a home broiler will never get as hot as a restaurant's. And, what they do in home kitchens in Asiaif home kitchens don't get hot enough to use a wok?

But, let's say, I don't get a wok and use a more western tool. What tool, and brand would best replicate a wok? Right now, I have a nonstick skillet but somebody said not to use a nonstick wok so I'm assuming that a nonstick skillet wouldn't work. How about something in cast iron? It would take a while to heat up, but once hot would stay hot. That seems like a quality I'd want. I know its heavy, but I don't see myself making acrobatic fips, a la Iron Chef Chinese.

[Ben Hong]

If you check out hzrt8's cooking pictorials you will see what his "go-to" pan is. ..just some old beat up pan that I think I can replace for about $9.95 . If i am cooking a small dish for my wife and I , I do the Ah Leung thing and haul out my own beat up sheet metal "thing " that I got when I first started living alone.

It is not about the pan, it's the technique and skill that is important.

[Dejah]

How about something in cast iron? It would take a while to heat up, but once hot would stay hot. That seems like a quality I'd want. I know its heavy, but I don't see myself making acrobatic fips, a la Iron Chef Chinese.

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As you said, the cast iron once hot stays hot. That's what you want in a stir-fry pan - constant heat.

They make cast iron woks.

[hzrt8w]

If you check out hzrt8's cooking pictorials you will see what his "go-to" pan is. ..just some old beat up pan that I think I can replace for about $9.95 .

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*cough* *cough* ... (sound of clearing throat...)

Don't under-estimate these stainless steel pans. We bought ours long ago as our wedding... ur... investment (is there such a thing?). Those were something like $80 a set - the 1980's dollars. Not just 2 pans but other pots as well. But I would challenge one to buy one for $9.95 today.

Or has the price... really??? come down so much? Dunnno. Haven't shopped for pots and pans for ages.

[Gabriel Lewis]

But, let's say, I don't get a wok and use a more western tool. What tool, and brand would best replicate a wok? Right now, I have a nonstick skillet but somebody said not to use a nonstick wok so I'm assuming that a nonstick skillet wouldn't work. How about something in cast iron? It would take a while to heat up, but once hot would stay hot. That seems like a quality I'd want. I know its heavy, but I don't see myself making acrobatic fips, a la Iron Chef Chinese.

Real stir-frying is just about having a really really hot pan, but a wok is preferable for a number of reasons. The shape of a wok is good because you can toss things around in it without much worry of them coming out, and it evaporates liquids quickly due to its outward sloping sides. When well seasoned, its nonstick surface allows the use of less oil and is excellent for frying as nothing sticks, interefering with the frying process. It also builds up a flavor profile from the dishes that were cooked in it, as it isn't washed with soap. The issue with woks is that they are thin and made of carbon steel which is a relatively poor heat conductor, which is why extremely powerful heat sources are needed to use them effectively. A home stovetop is unlikely to be able to produce sufficient heat for anything but the smallest batches.

Cast iron is probably not a good choice for a number of reasons. Firstly, although cast iron would build up the necessary heat provided you preheated it long enough it would be very hard to control the heat after that. Because it is very thick cast iron retains a lot of heat, and it would be very hard to cool it down. So if your were finishing a dish you were making with very high heat by making a sauce in the pan, a cast iron wok might still be too hot after you had added your liquid. This isn't a problem with a wok as it is thin and doesn't have much thermal mass, so when you add some water it cools down quite quickly. Secondly, a cast iron wok of any decent size would be very heavy and make it difficult or unwieldy to pick up the entire wok and shake it.

Non-stick isn't really a good choice because non-stick coating starts to breakdown at high temperatures, precisely what your looking for in a lot of chinese cooking. Also as others have noted, the frying properties of the non-stick surface are very different from other conventional surfaces.

I suggest you read the eCGI course on stovetop cookware to get a good understanding of the different attributes of stovetop cookware and whats good for what. If your not going to get a wok I would suggest a large stainless steel saute pan or saute evasee with a thick aluminum base. You'll find all the relevant information for a selecting a good one of these in the eCGI course.

[Ben Hong]

If you check out hzrt8's cooking pictorials you will see what his "go-to" pan is. ..just some old beat up pan that I think I can replace for about $9.95 .

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*cough* *cough* ... (sound of clearing throat...)

Don't under-estimate these stainless steel pans. We bought ours long ago as our wedding... ur... investment (is there such a thing?). Those were something like $80 a set - the 1980's dollars. Not just 2 pans but other pots as well. But I would challenge one to buy one for $9.95 today.

Or has the price... really??? come down so much? Dunnno. Haven't shopped for pots and pans for ages.

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Don't take things so literally. My point was for people to think technique and skill instead of the shape of their utensils. (Emoticon inserted meant that the the statement was made with tongue in cheek).

And yes, I have seen a China-made 10 inch stainless steel fry pan being sold at a "clearance sale" at $9.95 Canadian, which is about $8.50 US. (How long the handles stay on is another matter, though).

Edited February 17, 2007 by Ben Hong (log)

[sizzleteeth]

Skill is a very important factor, as are intuition and flexibility.

You often simply have to do what you can, with what you have wherever you are. Getting to know the nature of the pans you have and how they perform in your particular setup is paramount. This is something that we must observe and feel and once understood will allow just about anyone to produce good food with just about anything, over a campfire, on an electric burner or on top of a Vulcan with a Falk sauté pan or a $1 pan from the 99 cent store.

My Mom routinely produces fantastic Southern food on an electric stove with inferior, thin, SS pans and a single cast iron skillet.

She is able to do this because she knows her pans and her stove/oven – having cooked with them all so much – she understands what they will do as if they are speaking to her.

There is value in listening to our circumstances.

[Ben Hong]

There is value in listening to our circumstances.

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Nice statement.