Bruni and Beyond: NYC Reviewing (2007)

[Nathan]

Here's the thing...none of this was about sex.

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You can't be serious!!!

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I'm totally serious.

[JohnL]

The problem is the Times is trying desperately to compete with the internet, other papers and publications. It can do this by being a standard bearer for journalism or it can attempt to out do these other outlets by being more "snarky" and "clever" and hip.

It was once an "elite" publication because it set standards and adhered to them and people respected the paper. Now it is "elite" because it is taking on an "elitist" stance as a paper for those who are hip and in the know. Pinch has combined his mis guided multicultural we can change the world view with if you can't beat em join em and the results are scandal and embarrassment, lost credibility and circulation. In the battle with National Inquirer and People and the the blogs it will ultimately lose.

Instead of challenging other news outlets with its quality it is descending to their level.

[Sneakeater]

If you're going to do a story about the rather notable and interesting fact that there's a good restaurant with a credentialed chef inside a strip club, it would be ludicrous to downplay the fact that, well, it's inside a strip club. I think that if the Times ran the piece the way rich seems to want, it would have seemed laughably prissy and out of touch.

They had the choice to be intentionally funny or unintentionally funny. They chose the former.

Edited March 1, 2007 by Sneakeater (log)

[oakapple]

Here's the thing...none of this was about sex.

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You can't be serious!!!

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I'm totally serious.

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Of course it was about sex. When you're writing a review about a restaurant in a strip club, how do you avoid that?

Similarly, the review of Waverley Inn was about "scene." How could it not be?

Edited March 1, 2007 by oakapple (log)

[rich]

If you're going to do a story about the rather notable and interesting fact that there's a good restaurant with a credentialed chef inside a strip club, it would be ludicrous to downplay the fact that, well, it's inside a strip club.  I think that if the Times ran the piece the way rich seems to want, it would have seemed laughably prissy and out of touch.

They had the choice to be intentionally funny or unintentionally funny.  They chose the former.

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They could have been funny and entertaining is many ways. First, as many have said the steaks are top-notch, so they didn't need a gimmick.

Of course I agree they had to cover the sex angle, but they didn't need to overwhelm people with it. Almost lost in the mix is that they do serve good food.

Finally, think as a restaurant owner. If this is want needs to be done to get that type of coverage by the Times, then I'm going to use every gimmick I can think of. Next up - "Great Beef Cheeks Served at Chip N Dale."

[oakapple]

Finally, think as a restaurant owner. If this is want needs to be done to get that type of coverage by the Times, then I'm going to use every gimmick I can think of. Next up - "Great Beef Cheeks Served at Chip N Dale."

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Rich, that's just wrong. Bruni has 33 months of reviews behind him, for a total of around 143 reviews. Exactly one had an overt sex angle.

Moreover, Bruni made it clear that it's the superlative steaks that drew him there, without which there's no review.

Edited March 1, 2007 by oakapple (log)

[Nathan]

Here's the thing...none of this was about sex.

←

You can't be serious!!!

←

I'm totally serious.

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Of course it was about sex. When you're writing a review about a restaurant in a strip club, how do you avoid that?

Similarly, the review of Waverley Inn was about "scene." How could it not be?

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see, I don't think strip clubs are about sex...but anyway....

[Sneakeater]

First of all, theme restaurants are hardly a new and unknown idea. And it's not news that some of them have had better food than others of them.

Second, in this case, I think it's pretty clear that it's the food that's the "gimmick", not the sex. There have been any number of strip clubs in New York. But there's never been one with a credentialed chef serving what appears to be excellent food.

To put it another way, Robert's was hardly conceived of a stand-alone restaurant. It's another profit center at this club.

Edited March 1, 2007 by Sneakeater (log)

[Nathan]

Finally, think as a restaurant owner. If this is want needs to be done to get that type of coverage by the Times, then I'm going to use every gimmick I can think of. Next up - "Great Beef Cheeks Served at Chip N Dale."

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Rich, that's just wrong. Bruni has 33 months of reviews behind him, for a total of around 143 reviews. Exactly one had an overt sex angle.

Moreover, Bruni made it clear that it's the superlative steaks that drew him there. Without that, there's no review.

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I think Rich is talking about the front page placement and the photos...not Bruni.

[rich]

Finally, think as a restaurant owner. If this is want needs to be done to get that type of coverage by the Times, then I'm going to use every gimmick I can think of. Next up - "Great Beef Cheeks Served at Chip N Dale."

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Rich, that's just wrong. Bruni has 33 months of reviews behind him, for a total of around 143 reviews. Exactly one had an overt sex angle.

Moreover, Bruni made it clear that it's the superlative steaks that drew him there. Without that, there's no review.

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I think Rich is talking about the front page placement and the photos...not Bruni.

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Yes, I'm talking about the Times and its type of coverage, not the reviewer.

Edited March 1, 2007 by rich (log)

[Fat Guy]

There have been any number of strip clubs in New York.  But there's never been one with a credentialed chef serving what appears to be excellent food.

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Actually I believe a decade or so ago Mark Strausman was the chef at Stringfellow's. Also, not exactly a strip club but related, David Burke is involved with Hawaiian Tropic Zone.

[JohnL]

Humor and wit are welcome in any writing. I suppose the options here were to write a shorter review or fluff up the piece with--wit and humor. The difference for me is wit and humor in the service of being informative and readable are one thing. With Bruni I often find that he applies wit and humor for its own sake.

This review was almost buffoonish--more than a bit over the top. A good joke is a good joke and one should move on. We get the point--it's a seakhouse in a strip joint and the meat is very good.

The wit and humor of say a Johnny Apple was always erudite and in service of the greater task at hand. The wit and humor of Bruni is often sophmoric--like a bunch of high school smartasses giggling at their own cleverness and cackling over how "inside" they are.

Bruni who already had credibility problems has only added fuel to the fire here.

I think the paper has done a good job with the food section overall. It is the paper's reporting (of which criticism is part) that is suffering from less than highly credible voices who write well and understand the subjects about which they write.

If the Times wants to have a bitchy, gay columnist who writes about the food scene with a bitchy gay perspective--okay, I can buy that. But when that writer is supposed to be writing critical reviews of restaurants --I have a huge problem.

Just the way I have no problem with a reporter with political views (everyone is human) but when those politics begin to inform the reporting, the line has been crossed and I can no longer trust the writing.

I always believe that Shakespeare was right (I think it was him) when he said "trust the tale not the teller."

[rich]

First of all, theme restaurants are hardly a new and unknown idea.  And it's not news that some of them have had better food than others of them.

Second, in this case, I think it's pretty clear that it's the food that's the "gimmick", not the sex.  There have been any number of strip clubs in New York.  But there's never been one with a credentialed chef serving what appears to be excellent food.

To put it another way, Robert's was hardly conceived of a stand-alone restaurant.  It's another profit center at this club.

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Partially agree.

My question is - why did this restaurant review get treated different from any other review published by the Times? - and especially that of a one-star steakhouse.

The conclusion I have arrived at - because of the strip club/sex angle (gimmick). If this was another one star steakhouse without the "ambiance" it has, would it have received this type of coverage? I think the very, very safe answer is a resounding NO.

Isn't it possible or likely other restauranteurs might look at this and ask "...is that what I need to do to generate that type of coverage?"

If I'm not mistaken (and I apologize if I am), didn't Porter House get HALF a review for its one star? Why? - no gimmick or half-naked people asking customers if they want to be rubbed.

Lastly, if this story was so important and unique, why did it take the Times three or so years to figure it out?

Edited March 1, 2007 by rich (log)

[JohnL]

There have been any number of strip clubs in New York.  But there's never been one with a credentialed chef serving what appears to be excellent food.

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Actually I believe a decade or so ago Mark Strausman was the chef at Stringfellow's. Also, not exactly a strip club but related, David Burke is involved with Hawaiian Tropic Zone.

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This is interesting. Perhaps some perspective in the review noting the state of food in strip clubs (the buffet in Scores was "interesting") would have been better than inside film and theatrical references.

Perhaps more about the chef than the barbeque note. Some history some perspective.

Funny, I can't help but think that years ago the paper (any paper) would be horrified if the major buzz about a piece was over the writers gayness or blackness or femaleness or their credibility rather than the content and quality of the story. I suppose today that the buzz is what's important--any buzz--everybody is a star--everybody is famous--it's all good!

[Sneakeater]

There have been any number of strip clubs in New York.  But there's never been one with a credentialed chef serving what appears to be excellent food.

←

Actually I believe a decade or so ago Mark Strausman was the chef at Stringfellow's. Also, not exactly a strip club but related, David Burke is involved with Hawaiian Tropic Zone.

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You're right about Straussman. I'd completely forgotten about that episode (notable in many ways I'm not going to discuss now).

I was wondering when someone was going to bring up Hawaiian Tropic Zone (an enterprise that -- WARNING: irrelevant statement of personal preferences coming -- I personally find more offensive [in theory -- not that I've been to either of them] than Robert's).

Edited March 1, 2007 by Sneakeater (log)

[rich]

There have been any number of strip clubs in New York.  But there's never been one with a credentialed chef serving what appears to be excellent food.

←

Actually I believe a decade or so ago Mark Strausman was the chef at Stringfellow's. Also, not exactly a strip club but related, David Burke is involved with Hawaiian Tropic Zone.

←

You're right about Straussman. I'd completely forgotten about that episode (notable in many ways I'm not going to discuss now).

I was wondering when someone was going to bring up Hawaiian Tropic Zone (an enterprise that -- WARNING: irrelevant statement of personal preferences coming -- I personally find more offensive [in theory -- not that I've been to either of them] than Robert's).

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However, now the precedent has been set. Any thoughts on how the Times will handle and promote that review?

[Sneakeater]

Didn't Bruni already do a piece on Hooters? How did they handle that? (I honestly don't remember.)

[Fat Guy]

I don't believe so. He did quip, "It won't be long before Hooters has a tasting menu," in a Critic's Notebook piece.

P.S. Gael Greene did a small writeup of Hawaiian Tropic Zone:

http://nymag.com/restaurants/reviews/insatiable/28489/

[Nathan]

Bruni wrote up Hooters in an amusing Diner's Journal piece.

[oakapple]

My question is - why did this restaurant review get treated different from any other review published by the Times? - and especially that of a one-star steakhouse.

The conclusion I have arrived at - because of the strip club/sex angle (gimmick). If this was another one star steakhouse without the "ambiance" it has, would it have received this type of coverage? I think the very, very safe answer is a resounding NO.

I think you're entirely correct.

Isn't it possible or likely other restauranteurs might look at this and ask "...is that what I need to do to generate that type of coverage?"

Well, David Burke did more-or-less the same thing at Hawaiian Tropic Zone, and there hasn't been a peep out of Bruni. We're well past the opening period, so I would guess it isn't getting reviewed. (New restaurants are usually reviewed in the first few months, or not at all.) The Robert's Steakhouse review looks like a one-off to me.

If I'm not mistaken (and I apologize if I am), didn't Porter House get HALF a review for its one star? Why? - no gimmick or half-naked people asking customers if they want to be rubbed.

Keens Steakhouse, V Steakhouse, and Wolfgang's Steakhouse all got full reviews. It is not really clear how Bruni decides when to do double-reviews, but from this one example you can't infer very much.

Lastly, if this story was so important and unique, why did it take the Times three or so years to figure it out?

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This isn't the first time Bruni has reviewed a restaurant that had been open for a long while. Edited March 1, 2007 by oakapple (log)

[Sneakeater]

Hooters.

Right. It was New Media:

http://dinersjournal.blogs.nytimes.com/200...ngs-and-things/

[Nathan]

My question is - why did this restaurant review get treated different from any other review published by the Times? - and especially that of a one-star steakhouse.

The conclusion I have arrived at - because of the strip club/sex angle (gimmick). If this was another one star steakhouse without the "ambiance" it has, would it have received this type of coverage? I think the very, very safe answer is a resounding NO.

I think you're entirely correct.

Isn't it possible or likely other restauranteurs might look at this and ask "...is that what I need to do to generate that type of coverage?"

Well, David Burke did more-or-less the same thing at Hawaiian Tropic Zone, and there hasn't been a peep out of Bruni. We're well past the opening period, so I would guess it isn't getting reviewed. (New restaurants are usually reviewed in the first few months, or not at all.) The Robert's Steakhouse review looks like a one-off to me.

If I'm not mistaken (and I apologize if I am), didn't Porter House get HALF a review for its one star? Why? - no gimmick or half-naked people asking customers if they want to be rubbed.

Keens Steakhouse, V Steakhouse, and Wolfgang's Steakhouse all got full reviews. It is not really clear how Bruni decides when to do double-reviews, but from this one example you can't infer very much.

Lastly, if this story was so important and unique, why did it take the Times three or so years to figure it out?

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This isn't the first time Bruni has reviewed a restaurant that had been open for a long while.

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the only way Hawaiian Tropic Zone gets reviewed is if there are rumors that the food is actually very good. which isn't happening.

Robert's got reviewed because the word on the street was that its steaks were very good. I'd been hearing that since it opened actually.

my surmise is that Bruni gave it an initial visit to see if this was really the case...when he loved the steak, he decided to return for repeat visits and write it up.

I'd put money down that's exactly what happened.

[Sneakeater]

Yeah, I mean, this is all worthless speculation, but Robert's wasn't really a "normal" restaurant opening. It wasn't the kind of place that cried out for a review. It took a while for word to get around, and one could imagine it took awhile for Bruni to get around to acting on it.

For whatever reason, Robert's is red hot now. Just a couple of weeks ago, the sister of a Famous New York Chef raved to some friends of mine about a tour Lang had given her of his meat lockers.

[rich]

Just a couple of weeks ago, the sister of a Famous New York Chef raved to some friends of mine about a tour Lang had given her of his meat lockers.

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Now there's something the Times should jump all over.

Headline: "Chef's Sister Gets Private Tour of Penthouse Meat Locker." Based on the current environment, I guess that's a story for next week's food section.

The slide show would be interesting as well.

Edited March 1, 2007 by rich (log)

[Sneakeater]

See, that's the problem here, rich: you can't get your mind out of the gutter. [sMILEY]

Edited March 1, 2007 by Sneakeater (log)