Our sample NY itinerary

[jimk]

The hotels others have suggested (Mercer, 60 Thompson) are veyr nice ... if you'd like a slightly cheaper alternative, I'd recommend the Washington Square Hotel. It's nothing fancy, but it's a great location right on the parker, shortish walk to Union Square, and handy to subway. But only stay there if you can book a "deluxe" room - deluxe is code for renovated, and the deluxe rooms are small but actually quite nice. I live in the West Village and often put my family in this hotel when they come to visit from out of town. A deluxe room will generally be in the vicinity of $200. Biggest rooms are the ones ending in 10, 17 and 18.

[Nathan]

Robyn:

Let's just say that it's obvious you don't live here. And leave it at that.

or maybe it's just a generation gap.

(I also don't think a cab qualifies as a "nice trip"...even if you can find one at 8:30 on Friday night....especially since it takes twice as long to go uptown or downtown in one.)

Edited November 28, 2006 by Nathan (log)

[Sneakeater]

I don't want to start a fight about this, but I guess by robyn's logic people like me who live in Brooklyn would never go out to nice meals in Manhattan, and would never take the subway when we did. (Or, if the point is it's different for women, then my wife never would have gone out to dinner in Manhattan.)

And I guess uptown people would never go to the higher-end Tribeca restaurants, either.

I'm pretty sure I've seen all this happen, though. Even on birthdays.

Edited November 28, 2006 by Sneakeater (log)

[BryanZ]

Cabs are lame. Just have the SO bring a pair of flats that she can throw in her purse then make the switch to the Jimmys outside the restaurant.

Or hire a car service.

[robyn]

Robyn:

Let's just say that it's obvious you don't live here.  And leave it at that.

or maybe it's just a generation gap.

(I also don't think a cab qualifies as a "nice trip"...even if you can find one at 8:30 on Friday night....especially since it takes twice as long to go uptown or downtown in one.)

←

Who said anything about a cab ? I just said the subway was unacceptable for a visitor who is taking his wife or SO out for a big deal birthday evening.

As for a generation gap - ask the 30-somethings wearing the Manolos how *they'd* like to get to dinner.

As far as hotels are concerned - bargains - even relative ones - are few and far between in New York these days. But - since this is essentially a food discussion site - I won't get into hotels. My favorite website for discussing hotels (and frequent stayer/flyer programs and the like) these days is Flyer Talk. Robyn

P.S. Don't know about New York - but we stay in a fair number of hotels which have complimentary car service to places within X miles of the hotel - it's a nice perk if a hotel has the service.

Edited November 28, 2006 by robyn (log)

[Nathan]

put it this way:

booking a car service at prime time on a busy weekend night is something which often has to be done way in advance. another reservation to worry about.

as for the 20-somethings wearing Jimmy Choos they somehow manage with the subway and walking a few blocks just fine.

(at 3 a.m. you of course take a cab)

NY'ers can have plenty of affectations and self-perceived entitlements...but an aversion to mass transit is not one of them.

(and I doubt visitors from Europe have that issue either)

[ckruse]

It all looks good, but for a slight left turn go to Katz's for lunch (pastrami) sit at the served tables and if youre lucky you will get the waitress that will read your horoscope. OR Grand central downstairs at the Oyster bar for oysters and drinks.

[prasantrin]

Who said anything about a cab  ?  I just said the subway was unacceptable for a visitor who is taking his wife or SO out for a big deal birthday evening.

As for a generation gap - ask the 30-somethings wearing the Manolos how *they'd* like to get to dinner.

I agree with Robyn. I'm a 30-something female, and though I don't wear Manolos or Choos (or heels, for that matter), if it's a special dinner for a special occasion, my man had better get me to the restaurant some way other than a subway. And unless the restaurant is less than a 10-minute walk from the hotel, it's not going to be on foot.

I'm not at all pampered, but I do like being pampered. If I deem my 30th birtday to be an important occasion, then it calls for pampering. From the sounds of it, this is supposed to be a special trip and the OP isn't hurting--he can spring for car service, a cab, or car rental.

And yes, I do live in a place where subways, trains, etc. are commonplace (urban Japan), so I am very aware of their convenience and even their necessity.

Edited November 29, 2006 by prasantrin (log)

[raji]

I'm gonna disagree with Robyn - everything is close in Manhattan! And what's better than leaving the subway to go to a 4-star restaurant. I see a lot of tourists who don't venture too far from their Times Square hotels and what a shame that is - they don't even make it to 9th avenue!

"And what's better than leaving the subway to go to a 4-star restaurant."

I was being completely sarcastic here...

Nobody is above taking a taxi, not even heads of state! See Taxi Driver. NYC's yellow cabs are regulated unlike other cities...

[Pan]

It all looks good, but for a slight left turn go to Katz's for lunch (pastrami) sit at the served tables and if youre lucky you will get the waitress that will read your horoscope. OR Grand central downstairs at the Oyster bar for oysters and drinks.

←

If you get waiter service at Katz's, you don't get to pick your own pastrami. If you wait on line for the counterman, he gives you a sample to taste, and if it's not to your satisfaction, he'll pull over another slab of meat that probably will be to your satisfaction. Then, you can (and should) personally tip him a couple or three bucks per sandwich. I would rather wait on line and interact with the counterman than get waiter service. But that's also why I always advise people to go to Katz's anytime other than a weekend, because lines on weekends are usually brutal due to the arrival of hordes of group tours.

[Simon_S]

Hi everyone.

Transportation to restaurants is a non-issue for us. We'll do whatever is convenient, whether that's walking, public transportation or cabs. Hazel is not the sort of person who would either expect or enjoy a limo! Oh, and I'm sorry to report that neither Jimmy Choos nor Manolos feature in Hazel's wardrobe. It seems that all of our disposable income goes on travel and food, as you might suspect from this thread!

Our choice of hotel location will probably be based more on "atmosphere" rather than proximity to restaurants. Now maybe this is a visitor's romantic view of the city, but I can't help feeling that we've done the midtown corporate hotel thing, now we're looking for something different, something a bit more "hip". On our last trip, we seemed to spend all our time midtown or north, or way downtown (WTC bar mainly). We'd like to see something in the middle!

Sneakeater, your comment about the lack of walk-ins got me thinking. In Dublin, it's next to impossible to get a table at any of the "top" restaurants without a booking, sometimes quite far in advance, and certainly I've seen the same in other European cities. In purely tourist locations, I've never made a booking, but where I'll be competing with the locals for a table somewhere good, I prefer to have something arranged. I get so cranky if dinner doesn't work out that it's better to be safe than sorry.

Thanks for all the hotel recommendations. I'm taking them all on board. I don't know what it says that I'm trying to get the restaurants sorted before I worry about hotels or even flights. Probably just that I'm an eGulleteer! We're also thinking of extending our trip a little, purely so we can eat at more restaurants...

As for Katz's, I really want to try a corned beef sandwich as well. We may just have to go for greed over sense on that one. Of course, it's always possible not to finish a meal, isn't it? Well, other people have told me it's possible, I've never believed them.

Si

[Pan]

Hey listen, you only live twice; get the corned beef sandwich, too. It's good, and I presume you'll have a refrigerator in your hotel room, if you want to save it and have it for breakfast instead of something else.

Speaking of sandwiches for breakfast, if you're going to be staying downtown, would you want to go for a Vietnamese sandwich? Banh mi Saigon on Mott between Hester and Grand makes delicious Vietnamese sandwiches and you'll really save a lot of money on them. Something to consider, especially if you like it hot (if you don't, they'll make them mild for you, I guess by leaving out some or all of the jalapenos).

Edited November 29, 2006 by Pan (log)

[Sneakeater]

Our choice of hotel location will probably be based more on "atmosphere" rather than proximity to restaurants. Now maybe this is a visitor's romantic view of the city, but I can't help feeling that we've done the midtown corporate hotel thing, now we're looking for something different, something a bit more "hip". On our last trip, we seemed to spend all our time midtown or north, or way downtown (WTC bar mainly). We'd like to see something in the middle!

←

Not that you necessarily care, but I think you have this exactly right.

Edited November 29, 2006 by Sneakeater (log)

[Simon_S]

Speaking of sandwiches for breakfast, if you're going to be staying downtown, would you want to go for a Vietnamese sandwich?

←

Hmm, spicey breakfast sandwich sounds like a good idea to me, I'll definitely have a look. As a rule, we're not great at breakfasts because we're not usually too hungry in the morning. After a walk, though, this might be just the thing.

Not that you necessarily care, but I think you have this exactly right.

←

I absolutely care! Having been to NY only twice in my life, my ideas of the place are frequently based somewhere away from reality. I'm always happy to hear the opinion of someone more in the know than myself. Thank you for the feedback!

Si

[Nathan]

You'll have a lot more fun staying somewhere where people actually live.

besides, except for Barney's and Saks, you can find all the shopping in midtown downtown, plus the NoLIta, WV and MP boutiques.

[Daniel]

Well another option would be to look on sites like www.lodgis.com.. Here you can stay in furnished apartments in new york.. You get a lot more room, a lot more privacy.. You also get a fridge and a kitchen.. You can stock your room with many items you would normally pay a ton for.. I have traveled like this is France and it was awesome..

[robyn]

I'm gonna disagree with Robyn - everything is close in Manhattan! And what's better than leaving the subway to go to a 4-star restaurant. I see a lot of tourists who don't venture too far from their Times Square hotels and what a shame that is - they don't even make it to 9th avenue!

"And what's better than leaving the subway to go to a 4-star restaurant."

I was being completely sarcastic here...

Nobody is above taking a taxi, not even heads of state! See Taxi Driver. NYC's yellow cabs are regulated unlike other cities...

←

Regulated unlike other cities. I can agree with that (having been involved in a not minor accident involving 2 taxis on our last trip - kept getting phone calls when I got home from the "Mystic Insurance Company" ). Has to figure - 2 cabs - and the passengers were 3 lawyers!

By the way - in terms of tourism these days - there are few parts of Manhattan that aren't tourist areas. Maybe Soho and similar places weren't tourist areas 15 years ago - but they're teeming with tourists now (several galleries we go to have actually moved to mid-town from downtown to avoid a tourist-crazy rent-crazy area). And I don't think the shopping's that great. In terms of "window shopping" - seeing the things that those of us in the sticks don't get to see much - it's hard to beat Madison Avenue. A great day for me - designed to burn off lots of calories walking - would start at the Metropolitan Museum of Art - wander up Madison - and wind up at the Whitney. With a stop at Payard Patisserie .

As for hotels with amenities like kitchens - I've used the Affinia group of hotels before. Had some good results. The place I liked the best was the Surrey on the upper east side (people actually live there - it is primarily a residential area).

I really can't say too much about restaurants. Last time I was in New York was 2004 - and I'm sure the entire restaurant scene has changed since then. Judging from what I've read - I think the one new "must do" if I were going on a trip tomorrow would be Gordon Ramsay's new place. Sounds similar to his places in Europe - somewhat classical French designed for modern sensibilities (which Simon said is one of the things he's looking for). Robyn

[robyn]

Hey listen, you only live twice; get the corned beef sandwich, too. It's good, and I presume you'll have a refrigerator in your hotel room, if you want to save it and have it for breakfast instead of something else.

Speaking of sandwiches for breakfast, if you're going to be staying downtown, would you want to go for a Vietnamese sandwich? Banh mi Saigon on Mott between Hester and Grand makes delicious Vietnamese sandwiches and you'll really save a lot of money on them. Something to consider, especially if you like it hot (if you don't, they'll make them mild for you, I guess by leaving out some or all of the jalapenos).

←

Or maybe a room with a microwave - like a Residence Inn? Simon - I hope when you said you're taking them all "on board" - that you don't mean you're planning to find a hotel when you arrive. New York hotels are hugely crowded these days - and you don't want to wind up in Newark New Jersey (no offense to those of you who live there).

Also - if either of you smoke - remember that quite a few hotels (all Marriotts - all Starwoods - etc.) do not allow smoking in the US these days. Of course - the restaurants and bars in New York don't allow smoking either - but sometimes the smoking rules in hotels catch visitors from Europe by surprise. Robyn

[Nathan]

SoHo shopping generally sucks (for clothes, furniture and interior decoration is another story altogether).

NoLIta on the other hand is the avante garde NY shopping mecca.

here's a good summary of NY shopping today:

http://newyork.splendora.com/sections/399/..._boutiques.html

as you can see, NoLIta, the WV and the side streets of SoHo are the places.

the problem with uptown shopping is that Floridians can find most of it in Bal Harbor....and Europeans can find it all in any decent sized Western European city.

Edited November 30, 2006 by Nathan (log)

[Simon_S]

Simon - I hope when you said you're taking them all "on board" - that you don't mean you're planning to find a hotel when you arrive.

←

Dear God, no! I'm just not quite ready to get into the hotel selection thing yet, but I'm mentally filing away all the recommendations for when I sit down to do it. The idea of arriving in NY with nowhere to stay fills me with something approaching dread!! I had a hard enough time with the idea of "backpacking" as a student -- I'm just not cut out for that sort of thing.

Also - if either of you smoke - remember that quite a few hotels (all Marriotts - all Starwoods - etc.) do not allow smoking in the US these days.  Of course - the restaurants and bars in New York don't allow smoking either - but sometimes the smoking rules in hotels catch visitors from Europe by surprise.  Robyn

←

Neither of us smoke, and I for one can't stand smoky restaurants. We've had a smoking ban in bars and restaurants in Ireland for a couple of years now, so we're used to a smoke-free environment. It catches me off guard when I'm in a country that doesn't have such a ban. But thanks for the warning in any case!

Incidentally, I'm not expecting Soho to be any less touristy than midtown, I just want to stay there cos I haven't stayed there before. Well, that and the fact that we found post-restaurant options somewhat limited where we were staying last time. Am I right in thinking Soho/Village/wherever is better for bars and clubs?

Si

[Pan]

[...]Am I right in thinking Soho/Village/wherever is better for bars and clubs?

Si

←

There are good jazz clubs in the Village, and some in SoHo, as well.

Robyn, SoHo has been touristy to some degree for 40 years! I was getting dragged to shows in SoHo art galleries by my father at least as early as 1969 (and probably earlier, but I can't remember).

By the way, the new hot gallery location is way-west Chelsea.

[Nathan]

indeed, 10th ave is where all the galleries are. it's been that way for four or five years.

Simon, I lived in NoLIta (east SoHo) until a couple months ago and now live in the WV. Post-dinner places to check out in NoLIta include: Room4Dessert on Lafayette and Kenmare, Epistrophy (a wine bar) on Mott between Kenmare and Spring, Pravda (vodka bar) on Lafayette just south of Houston. There are very few places I'd suggest in SoHo per se, besides Zinc on Houston and Thompson/Greene for Brazilian jazz and occasional fado performances and, of course, the best cocktail bar in NY -- the Pegu Club, on Houston and Wooster.

In the WV I'd recommend Employees Only on Hudson and Christopher, the Spotted Pig (go late -- after one a.m. when it's less crowded) on 11th and Greenwich, and The Other Room on Perry and Washington.

East of NoLIta, just across Bowery is the Lower East Side. Lots of night spots around here. Just wander around. Upstairs at the Stanton Social is fun -- Stanton and Orchard. Ditto for the bar at Thor -- Rivington and Orchard. Also the bar at Schiller's -- Norfolk and Rivington.

Clubs in NY are another story. As a general rule, locals don't go to "clubbing" on the weekends -- those are left to tourists and the B&T. During the week is another story. Probably the best club to go to on the weekend is Cielo in the Meat-Packing district (which you should otherwise avoid at all costs on the weekend). However, it is very small and very difficult to get into if you are not known to them.

Hope this helps.

[Simon_S]

[snippity snip]

Hope this helps.

←

"Helps" doesn't begin to cover it. My good man, you rock!

Si

[robyn]

[...]Am I right in thinking Soho/Village/wherever is better for bars and clubs?

Si

←

There are good jazz clubs in the Village, and some in SoHo, as well.

Robyn, SoHo has been touristy to some degree for 40 years! I was getting dragged to shows in SoHo art galleries by my father at least as early as 1969 (and probably earlier, but I can't remember).

By the way, the new hot gallery location is way-west Chelsea.

←

Since Ivan Karp was the first person to open a gallery (OK Harris) on West Broadway in 1969 - I doubt it was too touristy then (although 1969 was before my time). Other galleries - like Louis Meisel's - opened in the early 70's. Quite a few of these "early settlers" are still there. And I try to spend at least a few hours at the Soho galleries I like when I'm in New York. And maybe have lunch at Balthazar.

I don't know from "hot" and "trendy" galleries. I am interested in certain kinds of art - and tend to find both the older and newer galleries which specialize in that art no matter where they're located.

Note to tourists who like art - I have found that gallery owners everywhere - including New York - are very knowledgeable - and usually very friendly. Even if you can't afford the art they're selling - all you have to do is walk into the gallery on a slow day (like a Wednesday afternoon) - armed with a little knowledge - and a lot of interest - and you will frequently be treated to a private art lesson. In fact - there is almost a direct relationship between the price of the art and the friendliness of the staff (I've been treated better at Pace than at galleries no one ever heard of before). Just be honest with the people you're dealing with - if you're looking at stuff you can't afford - say you love artist X - but can't afford him.

Second note - one great thing you can do in New York is go to art auctions at places like Sotheby's or Christie's. Except for the most hugely expensive auctions (like the evening impressionist and modern auctions) - you can just walk in at 11 am and watch. They're the best free shows in town . Robyn

[Pan]

Robyn, I remember a particular day in 1969 when I was dragged to four different art galleries in SoHo. At least, I remember them to have been in SoHo, and so does my father. And I doubt that any one person possesses an exhaustive history of all art galleries that were ever in SoHo. But this is a bit of a tangent for a food site...