Homebrewers?

[Tkrup]

I haven't seen the homebrew myself in about a week (school started again so my free time is, oh, non-existant), but Eric wanted me to ask a question.  He believes there is still yeast on top of the beer.  I asked him to describe it and he said it's not a foam, but something like pieces of "solid material" floating on the top.  I believe the bubbling activity in the airlock stopped some time ago.  We're looking to bottle on Thursday so we just want to make sure everything seems OK.  I may be able to take a photo of it tonight for clarification, but any ideas?

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Might want to add some finings and let it settle for a while, although stuff floating on top is a bit more than a cloudiness problem.

Good luck!!

[mtigges]

I haven't seen the homebrew myself in about a week (school started again so my free time is, oh, non-existant), but Eric wanted me to ask a question.  He believes there is still yeast on top of the beer.  I asked him to describe it and he said it's not a foam, but something like pieces of "solid material" floating on the top.  I believe the bubbling activity in the airlock stopped some time ago.  We're looking to bottle on Thursday so we just want to make sure everything seems OK.  I may be able to take a photo of it tonight for clarification, but any ideas?

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Perfectly normal. RDWHAH. That's just clumps of yeast that still have a lot of CO2 adhering via surface tension. Hence the floating. Given time the CO2 will find it's way free and all the sludge will drop, but it really doesn't matter.

At this point you are either thinking about moving the beer to a secondary fermenter, which is a pretty good idea at this point. People usually use what's called a carboy, but is really nothing more than a big bottle. You can get them in various sizes, likely you will want a 19 L / 5 US gallon one. Or, you will bottle straight from the fermenter.

In either case you will need to transfer the beer to something else in order to bottle. The reason for that is that you need to mix in the priming sugar. And you can imagine that if you poured in some sugar to the fermenter and stirred it in two things would happen, it would get REALLY cloudy ( = bad) and you would introduce too much O2 ( = REALLY BAD). So, you want to pour the sugar solution to the secondary vessel and then transfer the beer into it. That way the sugar solution gets perfectly mixed.

Anyways, all I really wanted to say was that this transferring (siphoning with your racking cane) will pull the beer from the fermenter leaving all the yeast sludge behind. Including the floating bits. So don't worry about them.

Somebody above mentioned to smell the beer. This is generally good advice, but can be frought with problems. First problem, you may get really uncomfortable if you sniff too much CO2. It burns. Second, sometimes beer naturally doesn't smell very good, e.g. some yeasts throw off rotten egg smells quite normally. Third, if there is a bad smell due to something bad growing there, there will almost certainly be visual indications as well - fuzzy colonies growing on the surface, or filmy sheets like cellophane.

So, did your kit come with a secondary fermenter?

[jsolomon]

I haven't brewed beer in a while, but I just resurrected my fermentor with a batch of wine. Pinot grigiot.  I will let you know how it goes (even though this is in the beer forum).

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I racked the wine yesterday. I went from my 23 L plastic primary to the 19L glass secondary. I remembered why I stopped homebrewing when the carboy promptly rejected the bung 5 times in a row. I got tired of re-sterilizing the bung, so I re-sterilized the primary and re-racked from the primary back into the secondary.

It smells a little funky right now, and there wasn't as much yeast settled on the bottom as I remembered from my beer brewing days (wine had been in primary for 12 days).

In another 10-14 days instructions say to begin sampling specific gravity. 0.998 is the goal. Once that is reached, we add the remaining clarifying agents (potassium sorbate) and kill the yeast (potassium metabisulfite) and bottle.

I have a thread on wine kits in the wine forum, and will post pictures to that thread.

[jeniac42]

We bottled the beer last night (it was the first time we had a couple of hours to get to it!) and hoo, boy. It seemed like it would be so simple, but we ended up with half-fermented beer all over the floor and the counters and the outsides of the beer bottles.... Lessons were learned, and next time should be easier.

First, we had trouble getting the siphon to work in order to take the beer from fermenter one to fermenter two (the one with a tap on it). Any suggestions? We tried putting water in the siphon hose and that seemed to work in the end but it was really tricky.

For the bottling, we had a tube with a little pin on the end, so when you press it to the bottom of the bottle it opens and when you lift it up it seals off. That made things easier, I think. I still felt like there was more air getting into the beer than there should've been, though.

Practice makes perfect, and at any rate we should be drinking our own beer in about ten days! I took some pictures; I'll post a couple of them tomorrow.

[jeniac42]

Just a couple of pictures of the process, in case anyone was curious.

First we have Eric pouring the wort into the primary fermenter:

And then from Friday night, Eric capping the bottles (we used mostly Straub and some Dogfish Head bottles, scrubbed and sanitized):

[mtigges]

We bottled the beer last night (it was the first time we had a couple of hours to get to it!) and hoo, boy.  It seemed like it would be so simple, but we ended up with half-fermented beer all over the floor and the counters and the outsides of the beer bottles.... Lessons were learned, and next time should be easier.

It is definitely a chore that gets easier with time.

First, we had trouble getting the siphon to work in order to take the beer from fermenter one to fermenter two (the one with a tap on it).  Any suggestions?  We tried putting water in the siphon hose and that seemed to work in the end but it was really tricky.

What I do is siphon my sanitizing solution (I use a 5 gallon bucket filled with Star San) into kegs (but you can siphon it to anything). I start the siphon with my mouth. This has two results, first it sanitizes the siphon, 2 it fills the siphon with liquid. After I have transferred enough I simply stop the flow, and let the hose sit in the pool of the sanitizer. (It is at this point that you would attach the bottling wand.) Then when I am ready to transfer beer, I simply open the valve, and let the sanitizer be pushed out by the oncoming beer. This small amount I let spill into a small bucket, in the centre of the bucket is my hydrometer. Once the beer is flowing clear I fill the hydrometer sample tube, then move the siphon outlet to start filling the kegs.

Obviously this is only advisable when using a no-rinse santizer like Star San. I highly recommend Star San, it's just WAY too convienient to justify using anything else.

For the bottling, we had a tube with a little pin on the end, so when you press it to the bottom of the bottle it opens and when you lift it up it seals off.  That made things easier, I think.  I still felt like there was more air getting into the beer than there should've been, though.

There shouldn't have been any. Unless your siphon connections aren't tight enough. What you probably noticed is lots of little bubbles forming in the hose and at the exit to the wand. This is quite likely CO2 coming out of solution due to the agitation. A bit of foaming on top of the beer while you bottle is a good thing. As long as it isn't due to splashing the beer. If some CO2 creates some foam then these bubbles minimize the amount of O2 that can fit in the headspace of the bottle.

Practice makes perfect, and at any rate we should be drinking our own beer in about ten days!  I took some pictures; I'll post a couple of them tomorrow.

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You never mentioned a bottling bucket / priming sugar. Hopefully you didn't bottle straight from the fermenter to the bottles!

As for cleaning the bottles prior to sanitizing, I have always used a product similar to oxyclean. A long enough soak leaves ANY bottle sparkling - no scrubbing, just a rinse. Leave the really bad ones overnight. When you drink the beer make sure to rinse the bottles right away. They won't need any cleaning before the next bottling session, just a rinse and then sanitizing.

[jeniac42]

Again, thanks to everyone for their help. We tried some of the beer on Sunday. It's definitely drinkable, but it tastes a little bit like burnt sugar (did we perhaps scorch the malt?) and is waaaaay carbonated, so it kind of reminds me more of a cola than beer! Still, like I said, it's drinkable.

Eric gets to plan and concoct the next round and I'll be making pickles and perhaps sausage in the meanwhile; after that I get a go at the brewing myself.

Has anyone ordered from morebeer.com?

[mtigges]

Again, thanks to everyone for their help.  We tried some of the beer on Sunday.  It's definitely drinkable, but it tastes a little bit like burnt sugar (did we perhaps scorch the malt?) and is waaaaay carbonated, so it kind of reminds me more of a cola than beer!  Still, like I said, it's drinkable.

Yes, probably it was scorched. When you add the liquid malt extract, make sure the stove is OFF. Until you have the LME fully dissolved. And stir very well while it's dissolving.

Worse things can happen though on your first beer, so good job!

As for the carbonation, you might have used too much priming sugar, or bottled too early. I believe your fermentation was 2 weeks, so that's unlikely.

Eric gets to plan and concoct the next round and I'll be making pickles and perhaps sausage in the meanwhile; after that I get a go at the brewing myself.

Has anyone ordered from morebeer.com?

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I have. They're excellent. Great products, and great service. Bit more expensive than other vendors, but free shipping is nice if you live in the states. It's not really worth it for me to order from them unless it's something really odd.

Mark

[TongoRad]

Congratulations on your first beer jeniac42 and Eric.

About that carbonation issue: I may be a bit of a nervous nellie but if it were me I'd put the remainder of those bottles in the fridge pronto. Whatever the reason for the excess carbonation (incomplete primary fermentation, too much priming sugar, maybe even wild yeast, etc.), chilling it now will greatly slow down, or even stop, what may be an ongoing process. You don't want to wind up with 'gushers', or worse.

[jeniac42]

I did notice that the ones that haven't been refrigerated yet (we don't have the space!) are a little... fizzier. Hm.

Anyone have any votes for what we should do next? I get to do a batch myself and would love to try an all-grain but ha, ha, I don't think that's a great idea, do you? My favorite beers to drink are the Belgian dark strong ales, but I think generally I would prefer something more malty than hoppy.

[TongoRad]

I did notice that the ones that haven't been refrigerated yet (we don't have the space!) are a little... fizzier.  Hm.

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Then you two have got some work ahead of you- time to get a-drinkin'

Just a guess here... but it seems that you had a stuck fermentation due to the cool temperature. If you don't already have a hydrometer then you should get one when you buy your next batch of ingredients. Taking a reading while you are racking will give you a good idea whether fermentation is complete or not.

Anyone have any votes for what we should do next? I get to do a batch myself and would love to try an all-grain but ha, ha, I don't think that's a great idea, do you? My favorite beers to drink are the Belgian dark strong ales, but I think generally I would prefer something more malty than hoppy.

I think that you can make a dandy Belgian Strong Ale using extract and candi sugar, and that you'll be glad that you did. The key will be in the yeast, and you will have to use liquid this time. Fortunately Wyeast makes 'activator packs' that are pretty user friendly and don't require the use of a starter. If you don't have any recipes handy then I'm sure that we can come up with something to your liking.

[DerekW]

Congratulations! If you like the idea of trying all-grain, go for it. The extra equipment actually needed is pretty minimal, and once you find how much flexibility you gain you're unlikely to want to go back to extract. That's how it was for me anyway. Having started with a "Beer Machine", I've been doing all-grain half-batches and kegging in an apartment galley for quite a while now.

If you are [as the wort pouring image suggests] transferring your wort without cooling it, I'd suggest a homemade immersion chiller as a cheap and useful upgrade. Palmer covers them, IIRC.

cheers

Derek

[mtigges]

I did notice that the ones that haven't been refrigerated yet (we don't have the space!) are a little... fizzier.  Hm.

Something is still producing gas. The yeast you used goes dormant at fridge temps, so that's why the carbonation has remained the same with the refridgerated ones. Hopefully the organism producing the gas is yeast. If it is yeast, then either you used too much priming sugar or you bottled too soon. If it's not yeast, well, be cleaner next time. I would try to refridgerate all of the bottles. If the carbonation is excessive, it is possible to recap the bottles. Open a bottle, remove the cap, let sit for 5 seconds, then recap with a new crown cap.

As mentioned by Tongo, get a hydrometer, and check the gravity, it's the best way to know how the beer is coming along.

Anyone have any votes for what we should do next?  I get to do a batch myself and would love to try an all-grain but ha, ha, I don't think that's a great idea, do you?  My favorite beers to drink are the Belgian dark strong ales, but I think generally I would prefer something more malty than hoppy.

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There's nothing wrong with going all-grain now, but I would recommend a couple more extract batches. I think that a Belgian like you describe is a very good choice for the next beer. It's a style that can be brewed very accurately with extract. As Tongo said, it all depends on the yeast. See wyeast for the full list of strains. I would recommend 1388 or 1762. I have also used 3463 for a Blonde, it's great. I don't personally feel that 3463 should be relegated to only producing wit.

The biggest issue with all-grain is the extra equipment. The most obvious addition is the mash-tun, where you steep the grains to convert starch to sugar. This will need to hold about 6-7 gallons of water to be big enough. Second, you need a new kettle that can hold 6 gallons, plus extra to guard against boilover. Then you need to be able to produce a boil. Your kitchen stove is probably only going to barely be able to do it. Lastly you will need a chiller to cool the boiling wort to pitching temp.

I used to all-grain brew at my apartment, I mashed inside in the kitchen, but then carried the mashtun (a bucket) to the patio, where I had a 50,000BTU burner and a 7.5 gallon kettle to lauter into and do the boil.

The most daunting part of going all-grain is the extra equipment, the actual process is quite simple. Let us know how it goes.

Mark.

[jeniac42]

Thanks again for the advice. We do have a hygrometer but somehow the measurements fell by the wayside. What can I say; not everyone is as OCD as I am, and in order to preserve happiness in the relationship I decided not to be too contentious about every step of the process. I figured I'll fix it when it's my turn to have a go, and show by example rather than by nagging. Heh.

I do think it is yeast producing the extra carbonation, because weeks later there's still no off taste to the beer that would indicate it's gone bad. And it hasn't made us sick yet, so that's a good sign.

We did cool the wort somewhat before pouring it into the fermenter but the picture does make it clear that it wasn't cool enough. I think impatience got the better of us on that one.

I may or may not have time to do my own batch before the end of the semester. If not, beer brewing is one of my projects for this summer, when I'll only have work to worry about. I will certainly update on Eric's next batch, which should be getting started soon.

[melonpan]

i am sorry that this is a bit off topic. i was also going to ask on <a href="http://forums.egullet.org/index.php?showtopic=85326">another interesting thread</a>, but... but here i am. has anyone ever malted barley without the husks? i mean has anyone ever malted pearled barley?

is it possible to germinate without the husk or is it vital?

i am not sure anyone who can answer this will find this question in this thread, but ill put it out there anyways....

[Susan in FL]

Interesting question! If you don't get an answer here, I'll be glad to help with starting another topic that should draw attention to your inquiry.

[cdh]

It isn't possible. Pearl barley is just the starchy energy stores.... the thing that germinates isn't even there anymore. It would be like trying to plant white rice.

Edited May 22, 2006 by cdh (log)

[TongoRad]

i am sorry that this is a bit off topic.  i was also going to ask on <a href="http://forums.egullet.org/index.php?showtopic=85326">another interesting thread</a>, but...  but here i am.  has anyone ever malted barley without the husks?  i mean has anyone ever malted pearled barley?

is it possible to germinate without the husk or is it vital?

i am not sure anyone who can answer this will find this question in this thread, but ill put it out there anyways....

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Thanks for the plug, melonpan.

Do you plan on using the 'huskless' barley for brewing? The husks are actually pretty important for a proper runoff: malted wheat has no husk so in wheat beers that start to approach 50% wheat malt you will need to add rice hulls to your grain bed in order to compensate for the lack of husks.

The only huskless barley I know of is a roasted malt called carafa, which has been de-husked after it has been malted. I don't know of any base malt.

[melonpan]

It isn't possible.  Pearl barley is just the starchy energy stores.... the thing that germinates isn't even there anymore.  It would be like trying to plant white rice.

thank you. i thought that that might be the case.

[melonpan]

Do you plan on using the 'huskless' barley for brewing?

actually, no, not for brewing. i was thinking about making <a href="http://forums.egullet.org/index.php?showtopic=51168&st=0&p=1198892&">a korean malted beverage</a> and just as a fun exercise i thought it might be fun to try to make the drink from scratch.

the malt powder that i usually use from the store comes in two forms, one with the hulls and one without. now im wondering if i have confused chaff with hulls. they are different arent they. anyway, now ill know where to begin. with whole barley.

i plan to use the method outlined here: <a href="http://byo.com/feature/284.html">http://byo.com/feature/284.html</a>.

the article cautions that the amount of enzymes in home made malt is typically much lower (maybe only a third) than store bought malt. if i succeed in malting, ill have to keep that in mind. what are ways to increase the amount of enzymes produced? is this purely a function of the percentage of grains you are able to sprout? or does this have to do with the quality of sprouting? maybe home germinators arent able to provide as optimal an environment for sprouting as commercial malters?

has anyone ever tried this at home? i plan to do just a small amount. maybe a kilo or half a kilogram.

i suspect not a whole lot of people out there try this...

in any case, i wanted to thank people here for their kind and very quick responses! thank you susan, cdh and mr tongo.

[TongoRad]

If I may offer a suggestion-

Before going through with the process of malting your own barley you might want to take the intermediate step of using malted barley from a brewing supply place in order to get your proportions in line with what will work for your recipe. The malted barley will still have to be mashed in order to convert the starches to sugars (the enzymes are there to accomplish this step), and I assume you will use the runoff in place of the malt extract powder mixed with water from your original recipe. You won't have to worry about the husks in that case because they will have effectively been filtered away. If you need any other advice please do post back.

[mtigges]

I agree with TongoRad, you should first try a mash from malted barley.

But, I encourage you to try to malt your own too. Why not, it's just fun hobby stuff. But learn to mash / lauter first.

As for how enzymatic power, don't worry about it. Barley has way more than enough to convert itself. How much power exists after the drying stage is dependent on how it was dried. Do it with a lower heat and you will have more surviving enzymes. Do it too slowly though and you will spoil the grain.

Mark.

[Lawrence]

Hey Stone

I have been a homebrewer for about 15 years, I brew 5 and 10 gallon batches, I built my own two tier, 3 keg brew stand, with a pump for recirculating the wort. I also make Mead. APA is my favorite style to brew........Love to drink Bocks though....(Celebrator!!)

I have not brewed a beer in a while, but getting ready to make a bock, after my Mead is ready......

[TongoRad]

Hey Stone

I have been a homebrewer for about 15 years, I brew 5 and 10 gallon batches, I built my own two tier, 3 keg brew stand, with a pump for recirculating the wort.  I also make Mead. APA is my favorite style to brew........Love to drink Bocks though....(Celebrator!!)

I have not brewed a beer in a while, but getting ready to make a bock, after my Mead is ready......

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Celebrator!!! Damn straight!

What type of bock are you planning on brewing?

It's been a while, but I have had quite a bit of success brewing traditional dunkles bocks. Wyeast #2206 gives great results and isn't too finicky about a diacetyl rest. The old 'reduce the first runnings' trick works wonders as well.

[Bill Poster]

Looking at brewing kits and microbrewery plants, and it seems hard to fing anything between the two(in the UK). I would like to buy something which will produce around 50 litres a time.

I am a beginner; I want to make a strong pilsner, maybe using 20%Kent Goldrings and mainly Saaz(or UK equiv.)and a little chinook. Also some rice. Yeast will be belgian, for higher abv. Malts I am not sure about; any suggestions on what to order?