New German Cuisine?

[dipardoo]

robyn, i'm coming in quite late on this discussion, but you've chosen some top destinations. good work!

i've posted previously about le moissonnier in cologne. i really recommend it - good value, great atmosphere, lovely wine and service. i think it will fulfil your requirements for german food in modern style.

i can recommend the set lunch - then you can go to bergisch gladbach for dinner!

[glauer]

robyn, i'm coming in quite late on this discussion, but you've chosen some top destinations. good work!

i've posted previously about le moissonnier in cologne. i really recommend it - good value, great atmosphere, lovely wine and service. i think it will fulfil your requirements for german food in modern style.

i can recommend the set lunch - then you can go to bergisch gladbach for dinner!

←

hmmm, I had forgotten about the original question.

New German is certainly not what you get at Le Moissionier, it is heavily french influenced. At the same time it is so unique that you might not find anything similar in France, so I would still highly recommend.

[dipardoo]

yes, it's heavily french influenced i agree. it's not neue deutsche küche. i'm just trying to give robyn a recommendation of some interesting modern food coming from a german restaurant's kitchen. there are german influences and ingredients in there - but sure, it's got more than a touch of france to it.

[robyn]

We'll be in Germany for 2 weeks - and I'm sure we'll wind up eating lots of different kinds of food. So any suggestions are welcome. When I get to some serious reading about restaurants in 2007 - I know I'll have a lot more questions. In the meantime - I'm getting ready to go to the big game tomorrow (Florida/Georgia). GO GATORS ! Robyn

[robyn]

Are you familiar with the hotels?  Which is nicer?  Took a look at these websites - and it might be fun to stay at one of the hotels - eat at both restaurants over perhaps a 3-4 day period - go to Cologne and perhaps some areas outside the city for a little sightseeing - and then catch a flight home out of the Cologne airport (both places seem pretty close to the airport).  Does this sound like a reasonable plan?

Only fly in the ointment is I think we will need a car for this - and my husband has bad memories of his last driving in Germany (he wasn't used to the speed limits on the autobahn).  But if I rent him a car with a GPS - and say please in a nice way - I think I can convince him  .  Robyn

←

Both are excellent - I had the pleasure of staying at Schlosshotel Lerbach in August and it was fantastic. Which you choose really depends on what you are looking for.

Grandhotel Schloss Bensberg is on the top of the hill in Bensberg, so is in town and within walking distance (5 minutes up or down hill depending on whether you are going to / from hotel) of the tram/light rail stop of Bensberg. This will take you into Cologne quickly and easily (and cheaply).

Schlosshotel Lerbach is more of a country-house / hunting lodge style, set in a park. You would need to use a taxi to get to either Bensberg tram station or Bergisch Gladbach rail station (both about 5/10 minutes by taxi and around €10).

Of the two I would recommend Bensberg if you are looking to visit Cologne several times during your stay and Lerbach if you are looking for somewhere to chill out - or better still a couple of days at both to get the best of both worlds!

I would also suggest looking at their "Arrangements" or packages as these offer some good deals, especially if you take advantage of the fact that most will allow you to take an extra night at a much reduced cost. You can also get a better room at a reduced rate as part of the package - if you do this check with the hotel as I believe that at Lerbach (and probably Bensberg) they include use of their chauffeur driven car in the rate for those in a suite.

Meal-wise, I would strongly recommend taking lunch at Restaurant Dieter Müller and choosing the "Amuse Bouche" menu (19 small dishes served in 5 courses but only available at lunch), and perhaps dinner at Vendome (although not on the same day for obvious reasons ).

←

That lunch menu at Dieter Muller looks really interesting. I've made a reservation at Bensberg for 3 nights. Thinking of doing the lunch at Dieter Muller our last day. We have a plane early the next morning. If we wanted to do lunch - and then a little sightseeing in the general area - but outside Cologne - anything in particular that you would recommend? Robyn

[Stephen W]

If we wanted to do lunch - and then a little sightseeing in the general area - but outside Cologne - anything in particular that you would recommend?  Robyn

←

After lunch, I would recommend sightseeing the leather sofas/couches in reception (about a 5 metre walk from the door of the restaurant), moving on to the bar if you feel in need of a digestif (although assuming you have the matching wine menu with the meal you may not want more alcohol).

More seriously, I'd ask reception (at either hotel) to recommend something (they can take into account weather / opening times etc.).

[robyn]

Stephen - We decided to have dinner at both places - one on our first night - one on our third night - with a night in between for tea and toast . We'll "go into town" (Cologne) for sightseeing during the day.

I'll note that the hotel in Bensberg seems to be a really popular place. I was thinking of changing our room type reservation - and the hotel is already sold out for one night of our stay in June. Robyn

[paulbrussel]

A few weeks ago I tried to book at Müller's for a Friday evening dinner half December: then already all Friday and Saturday evenings were booked for the rest of the year. So I think booking quite in advance is to be recommended.

[TGullet]

Did you make the trip yet? Report?

As you can imagine - this all sounds like "Greek" to me right now - since I have no concept of the country and its geography.  Picked up my first travel guide today.  Luckily - it has a map!  The new Michelin Green Guide for Germany will be out in about 5 weeks - and I will pick up a copy when it's released.

I haven't been to continental Europe for a very long time (many more recent trips to the UK).  But I used to like using the Michelin Red Guides when I traveled there - not even so much for starred restaurants (which everyone used to know about - and which you can now read about on line) as for the comprehensive listings of all kinds of restaurants.  So if you leave a museum at noon - and want to find a decent but not big deal restaurant in the neighborhood - you have some help.  Have any of you used the Red Guide to Germany - and do you find it worthwhile?

Also - have any of you used the Time Out Guides to cities in Germany?  I found the Tokyo guide useful because of its excellent maps - but thought the restaurant information was kind of dated.

Finally - I have kind of a delicate question. For years - as a Jew - I always felt ill at ease traveling in certain parts of continental Europe - and avoided some because of family history.  Even places which seemed ok - like Norway - wound up not seeming ok - well "not ok" isn't the correct phrase - "out of the mainstream" is more like it - because - although I think the Norwegians were heroic in their resistance - they really didn't have much to do with the Holocaust (there simply weren't many Jews in Norway - or people for that matter - it's a really small country!).  Then I started to read some new things - about the Jewish Museum in Berlin - the first ordained rabbis in Germany (in ages) - stuff like that.  And I figured it was time for me to a take a look.

Anyway - my question is - I have read that there is now such a thing as Holocaust tourism by Jews visiting certain parts of continental Europe.  Frankly - the idea doesn't sit well with me.  Don't think I can handle it.  But I wonder if anyone here has done anything like that - and whether it's something worth doing - even though it is undoubtedly a very sad trip into a very sad part of history.  Note that this would be kind of "generic" travel for me.  Looking at things in general.  Wouldn't have anything to do with my family.  Half came from Poland - half from Russia (think Fiddler on the Roof  ).  None of my family is left in those places now - so I am not interested in tracing my particular "roots".  It's just that if I'm in this part of the world - I don't want to miss things that I should see - even if they're personally painful.  I've seen enough of continental Europe to know that WWI and WWII were terrible for millions of people - but have avoided confronting personal pain for a very long time.  Since this question really isn't food-related - it's probably best to PM me with any responses.  Robyn

←

[robyn]

Our trip is late May to early June of this year. So no report yet. And any new recommendations are appreciated. Robyn

[glauer]

I know that you have booked now for Bergisch-Gladbach. But in case you make it also to the South, for example Nuernberg, I definitely would recommend Landgasthof Adler in Rosenberg.

Way out there in the middle of nowhere, in the most beautiful landscape with tiny villages. Also some very well preserved medieval towns such as Dinkelsbuehl. And the Restaurant is a really old building in the middle of a small hamlet, very originally renovated with a mix of very old stuff and bauhaus furniture and pretty bold colors.

The food is also one of the most original I have had anywhere. Half of the menu are refined versions of local dishes (eg tripe with braised onions and smoked eel, or wonderful liver dumplings in beef broth) and the other half are surprisingly elegant more international dishes (standout was a perfect rouget with a vegetable salad). This place is as unique as it gets in every aspect.

They also have nice rooms. Everything very affordable. I think it would make a nice contrast to the luxury and opulent perfection at the two chateaux hotels. I also think from what I read in thr NYC forum that you might like the lack of gimmickry in the foods. It is inventive but all for better taste.

http://www.landgasthofadler.de/

[robyn]

I know that you have booked now for Bergisch-Gladbach. But in case you make it also to the South, for example Nuernberg, I definitely would recommend Landgasthof Adler in Rosenberg.

Way out there in the middle of nowhere, in the most beautiful landscape with tiny villages. Also some very well preserved medieval towns such as Dinkelsbuehl. And the Restaurant is a really old building in the middle of a small hamlet, very originally renovated with a mix of very old stuff and bauhaus furniture and pretty bold colors.

The food is also one of the most original I have had anywhere. Half of the menu are refined versions of local dishes (eg tripe with braised onions and smoked eel, or wonderful liver dumplings in beef broth) and the other half are surprisingly elegant more international dishes (standout was a perfect rouget with a vegetable salad). This place is as unique as it gets in every aspect.

They also have nice rooms. Everything very affordable. I think it would make a nice contrast to the luxury and opulent perfection at the two chateaux hotels. I also think from what I read in thr NYC forum that you might like the lack of gimmickry in the foods. It is inventive but all for better taste.

http://www.landgasthofadler.de/

←

I just ordered the Michelin Green Guide today (Red Guide too). So I can start seeing where places are - and how far away they are from one another. We'll only be staying overnight in 3 places - but I'll be looking into day trips (and good places to eat on those day trips). Thank you for the information - I am keeping all of these messages. Robyn

[robyn]

Think I'll "bump" this thread. We're leaving on Saturday. About a week in Berlin (mostly because we need a couple of days to get over our jet lag). Then four days in Munich - then Cologne.

I am particularly perplexed by Berlin. Although there are a reasonable number of starred Michelin restaurants - they are - for the most part - very expensive - and have only 1 star. Not usually a good sign (very expensive should have more than 1 Michelin star). We're dining at the hotel restaurant one night - Vitrum - but - otherwise I don't have a clue (except perhaps lunch at Vau - which seems like a good value). Seems that we may be better off trying to find some casual fun places instead of higher end places that aren't worth the price. Does anyone have any new ideas about interesting places in Berlin?

The concierge at the hotel recommended Sankt Moritz - but it didn't look that interesting to me.

If Berlin isn't a great eating city - so be it. There is plenty to see - and I am a girl who can live on sausages for a week . Robyn

[donk79]

If Berlin isn't a great eating city - so be it.  There is plenty to see - and I am a girl who can live on sausages for a week  .  Robyn

←

And you would not be going wrong doing that! I spent a couple of weeks in Germany in 2005 and toward the middle of the trip found myself dining in a cafe outside of Wartburg Castle. I had a mental block while looking at the menu, and though weinerwurst rang a bell... I could not for the life of me remember what it was. So I ordered one (actually I think the order included two of the sausages).

Anyhow, to make a long story short, after that experience, I know what a hotdog tries to imitate. There was no bun, no ketchup, and certainly no need for it! It was a beautifully tasty sausage to which nothing I have had outside of Germany has ever compared. (And it was the blueberry dumpling the size of a bowling ball that caused the lead sinker feeling for me, not the sausages!) Germany is worth visiting for the sausages alone, even if they have become a stereotype of German food.

[kai-m]

Yeah, the prices in german 1*-restaurants are a big problem...they are almost the same as in 2 and 3*-places...

"Margaux" is said to be great (but very expensive).

If your are in Cologne, "Le Moissonnier" (1*, going on 2) is a *must*!! They serve terrific french/experimental cuisine in a very relaxed bistro-style ambiance. The prices are very reasonable (something like 70 euros for the large tasting menu).

But booking is essential. They also serve lunch.

Have fun

kai

[Stephen W]

Does anyone have any new ideas about interesting places in Berlin?

←

I think it's been mentioned before (probably on one of the Berlin threads) but I enjoyed a meal at Ottenthal last summer. Sort of "Modern Austrian" cuisine I guess, excellent quality and good service. Worth booking if you want to go as it is a fairly small restaurant and was full when we visited.

[robyn]

Kai-M - We'll be in Cologne - but are already booked for Vendome and Dieter Muller. I'm not sure how much more food we can eat during our 3 days there. But if we have room - perhaps Le Moissonnier for lunch on the day we don't have dinner reservations. Robyn

[robyn]

Does anyone have any new ideas about interesting places in Berlin?

←

I think it's been mentioned before (probably on one of the Berlin threads) but I enjoyed a meal at Ottenthal last summer. Sort of "Modern Austrian" cuisine I guess, excellent quality and good service. Worth booking if you want to go as it is a fairly small restaurant and was full when we visited.

←

Nice looking menu. Note that it's a Bib Gourmand choice in this year's Michelin Guide for Germany. Robyn

[kai-m]

@Robyn: wow, Vendome *and* Müller...!! I see you are not travelling on budget...

The large tasting at both is around 150,- euros plus drinks (which are no bargain at both, either) and tip (no, not as much as in the US).

Le Moisonnier is very different in style but one of the favorites (not only) among locals. And really very good... the 4 course lunch-menu is 50,- www.lemoissonnier.de/

In berlin restaurant "Goldrot" might be an option. Very modern in every way. The chef has worked at el bulli before - and it shows on the menu.

Never been to "Vau", but I hear it's quite good. Unfortunately most of the good restaurants in berlin are located in the huge hotels - a thing I don not like at all.

In munich, "Tantris" is a truly legendary place - in the 70s it was the starting point of the german gourmet cuisine...a classic 2* place with a very idiosyncratic interior design.

best

kai

[robyn]

@Robyn: wow, Vendome *and* Müller...!! I see you are not travelling on budget...

The large tasting at both is around 150,- euros plus drinks (which are no bargain at both, either) and tip (no, not as much as in the US).

Le Moisonnier is very different in style but one of the favorites (not only) among locals. And really very good... the 4 course lunch-menu is 50,- www.lemoissonnier.de/

In berlin restaurant "Goldrot" might be an option. Very modern in every way. The chef has worked at el bulli before - and it shows on the menu.

Never been to "Vau", but I hear it's quite good. Unfortunately most of the good restaurants in berlin are located in the huge hotels - a thing I don not like at all.

In munich, "Tantris" is a truly legendary place - in the 70s it was the starting point of the german gourmet cuisine...a classic 2* place with a very idiosyncratic interior design.

best

kai

←

We have a budget - it's just a large one . I really couldn't resist the Vendome/Muller combination - an older 3 star Michelin chef and a younger 3 star Michelin chef just around the corner. Should be an interesting comparison. It's the reason I decided we had to go to Cologne.

Our main restriction is avoiding eating too much food. Makes me very uncomfortable. So I am trying to combine a few larger meals with a larger number of smaller ones. I think I will be having a lot of spargel (it's light and I love it). Hope the season won't be over in the next 2 weeks.

I think our first introduction to food in Berlin may be street food. I just found out there is a huge street festival this weekend (Karneval Der Kulturen) - and it might be fun just to go around and nibble on different ethnic foods whenever we get hungry (with the jet lag - who knows when that will be?). Does anyone know anything about this festival? Robyn

[robyn]

Re Goldrot (I took a look at the website) - You know - I am almost ready to throw my Michelin Guide (2007 Germany) in the trash. The restaurant isn't even listed there. Now maybe it may not be worth a star - but it should be listed in the guide. It's not exactly a currywurst stand! Robyn

[paulbrussel]

If your are in Cologne, "Le Moissonnier" (1*, going on 2) is a *must*!! They serve terrific french/experimental cuisine in a very relaxed bistro-style ambiance. The prices are very reasonable (something like 70 euros for the large tasting menu).

Well, it was interesting at Le Mossonnier (although I didn't understand well the second star to come), but I even liked better Capricorn i Aries (1 star).

[robyn]

@Robyn: wow, Vendome *and* Müller...!! I see you are not travelling on budget...

The large tasting at both is around 150,- euros plus drinks (which are no bargain at both, either) and tip (no, not as much as in the US)...

Took a quick look - and if you omit the champagne sorbet and the foie gras - you're talking about 115 euros for a very nice meal. There's also a good chance I'll order a la carte (I usually can't do justice to more than 3 courses). Robyn

[tinnitus]

robyn, I caught this thread a little late it looks like you are in Berlin now and still have a few days, so I'll throw in my 2 cents about Berlin restaurants. I'm American but live in Berlin part time, and have been to all of the Michelin star'd restaurants in town, many more than once.

Our favorite restaurant right now is a new place in Kreuzberg called Hartmanns. The food I would definitely describe as modern German, the prices are reasonable, the wine list very nice and focused on German-speaking countries, the people and young chef are very friendly (and speak English), the address is Fichtestraße 31, phone # 030 6120 10 03, reservation recommended.

The two Michelin starred restaurants worth going to, keeping in mind your interest in modern German cooking, are Restaurant 44 at the Swiss Hotel (www.restaurant-44.de) and Facil at Potsdamer Platz (www.facil-berlin.de). Both also have good lunch menus at much more reasonable prices than dinner, and both have outside terraces that are very pleasant this time of the year (when it doesn't rain). I haven't had any trouble getting reservations.

Margaux used to be really great but they've had a lot of changes in chefs and other personnel over the years, which makes it a bit unpredictable. It's also much more French than the two I mention above.

Other than that: I suggest drinking German Rieslings and Austrian red wines if you're not wedded to beer. And if you or your husband feel the need for beer while in town, Prater Garten in Prenzlauer Berg (www.pratergarten.de) is a great place to people watch and linger.

[robyn]

I'm leaving this morning - will arrive tomorrow - and will be there until Saturday (with my computer). So if anyone has any ideas - I'd love to hear them. Robyn