Vegan risotto

[Fat Guy]

Any thoughts on making risotto without any actual stock, butter, cream, or cheese? I figure stock can be replaced with all wine, or perhaps one of those powdered stock products. Making a vegetable stock seems a bit much, though I'd do it if told it made a big difference. Olive oil should be able to pinch hit for most of the dairy fats, but is there some other product that should be added to lend lusciousness to the finished product? Ditto for the cheese.

[Malawry]

I've made it vegan before. I think all-wine would be a little too fruity, personally. If you don't feel up for making a stock, the Imagine vegetarian stocks in shelf-stable boxes work pretty well. I like to use dried mushrooms in my risotto, and usually add the soaking water to the stock bath. Good olive oil works well in lieu of butter, and you really don't need cheese to make it a good dish.

I've never used cream in my risotto. What do you do with it? Use it to finish the dish?

[Fat Guy]

Yes, and lots of it!

[Malawry]

Yours must be much silkier than mine, then. I'll have to try it next time I make it. Everything is better with cream!

[Fat Guy]

Cream, butter, olive oil, and parmesan together make for very sikly risotto indeed. It's the standard French restaurant procedure for making the dish. I don't think the Italians do it.

[Malawry]

I have learned the Italian technique independently, but we have not yet gotten to the French technique in school. I suggest the Italian technique may be more vegan-appropriate.

[Adam Balic]

Use rice type with a higher starch content to increase "creaminess". Porchini risotto with a fruity (hoegarten white) beer/ale stock works well.

[Jinmyo]

Steve seems to be hanging around with the wrong crowd lately. Veggie burgers and vegan risotto.

Anyway. Carnaroli rice, use beer or wine or the soaking liquor from porcini, lots of EVOO. No problem. You just have to stir harder.

I also always have several kinds of vegetabke stocks on hand.

[GordonCooks]

Tofu butter ? Soak some Porcinis for the water and white truffle oil ?

I never put cream in risotto....what's the point ?

[Varmint]

Fat Guy introduced me to the concept of cream in risotto, and although it works well in some dishes, it's inappropriate in others. For instance, when you want to get a sharp flavor to come through the risotto, such as sun dried tomatoes, the cream deadens the flavor somewhat. I don't use as much cheese, either. I guess one way to look at it is to compare pasta sauces -- some are creamy and some are not. There's many instances when the dish would have been better if the chef got rid of the cream.

[Fat Guy]

That's correct. It's particularly unhelpful in seafood risottos. But in, for example, a mushroom risotto, you could line up a million people for a side-by-side blind taste test and I'd be surprised if you could get one vote for the non-cream version.

[Robert Schonfeld]

That's correct. It's particularly unhelpful in seafood risottos. But in, for example, a mushroom risotto, you could line up a million people for a side-by-side blind taste test and I'd be surprised if you could get one vote for the non-cream version.

Rather than talking about what's "better", might we not talk about preference based on experience and ethnicity or nationality, for example. Granted, in the case of Americans with no other experience, an enrichment of cream will taste "better". And a million French people would probably vote the same way. But would a million Italians say that a mushroom risotto, inauthentically prepared with cream would taste "better"? Could you shift the taste paradigm of a people with this idea? If you think you could, I would suggest to you that you have the makings of a very newsworthy stunt you could perform in Tuscany one day.

[Robert Schonfeld]

I'm trying to work up a repertoire of recipes that can be prepared in both omnivorous and vegetarian/vegan (or both) versions, cooked side by side, so as to allow me to serve the "same" food to everybody.

Lucky be the picky ones invited to your house for dinner.

[Jinmyo]

I've tried cream but find that I usually just monte au beurre (what is that in Italian? "Manchetta"?) and add fresh parmigiano and stir like a dervish to emulsify. Cream is particularly nice in an asparagus risotto though. Or for mushrooms other than porcini.

Robert, a report on Roxanne's would be fascinating. Please PM me if you do post one so I don't miss it.

[Robert Schonfeld]

Or for mushrooms other than porcini.

I could see that, Jin. In my foolishly narrow mind, mushroom risotto and porcini risotto are the same thing. Must choose my words more carefully.

[mamster]

When Michael Romano did his chef column in the NYT (it's in the book Chefs of Our Times) he did a veggie risotto using cucumber juice, I believe. Yeah, I'm skeptical too, but if Romano says it's good, it's at least worth a try.

[Jinmyo]

Porcini risotto is splendid. But a nice mix of morels, chanterelles, oyster, and black trumpets with cream is a wonderful wonderful thing as well.

[Fat Guy]

Robert, remember that risotto is supposed to be creamy. Cream makes it creamier. Even Bugialli calls for cream in spinach risotto. Although my understanding is that Italian home cooks rarely use cream in risotto -- and when they do it's often to make a risotto where cream is the main event -- I bet you'll find a lot more cream than you'd suspect in the better modern Italian restaurants in Italy. There are also Italian risotto recipes calling for mascarpone. As I mentioned on the butter-and-cream thread, restaurants overuse butter and cream while home cooks underuse them. This is true in Europe as well as here. Next time you're making risotto, set a little aside and finish it with a tablespoon of cream. I think you'll agree that the newsworthy stunt would be a success.

Jin, I don't see why you'd exclude porcinis from the cream-with-mushrooms rule. With more delicately flavored mushrooms you want to use less cream, but I still think a little is going to improve the risotto.

[Robert Schonfeld]

Porcini risotto is splendid. But a nice mix of morels, chanterelles, oyster, and black trumpets with cream is a wonderful wonderful thing as well.

Egullet member I'd most like to have cook for me: Jinmyo.

[Jinmyo]

Jin, I don't see why you'd exclude porcinis from the cream-with-mushrooms rule. With more delicately flavored mushrooms you want to use less cream, but I still think a little is going to improve the risotto.

There is a peppery flavour to porcini that I find is dulled by cream. Unless we're speaking of so little cream it was not really worth getting it out of the refrigerator. I truly truly love that peppery flavour.

Robert, that's very kind.

[Robert Schonfeld]

Robert, remember that risotto is supposed to be creamy. Cream makes it creamier. Even Bugialli calls for cream in spinach risotto. Although my understanding is that Italian home cooks rarely use cream in risotto -- and when they do it's often to make a risotto where cream is the main event -- I bet you'll find a lot more cream than you'd suspect in the better modern Italian restaurants in Italy. There are also Italian risotto recipes calling for mascarpone. As I mentioned on the butter-and-cream thread, restaurants overuse butter and cream while home cooks underuse them. This is true in Europe as well as here. Next time you're making risotto, set a little aside and finish it with a tablespoon of cream. I think you'll agree that the newsworthy stunt would be a success.

Jin, I don't see why you'd exclude porcinis from the cream-with-mushrooms rule. With more delicately flavored mushrooms you want to use less cream, but I still think a little is going to improve the risotto.

So now it's Robert, eh?

I don't doubt anything you say about cream; I agree with most of it. Asparagus, spinach, they ask for it. Italy ranges from French and Swiss influences in the north to African influences in the south, so many things are possible and appropriate. Still, tradition has its place, especially when it's justified in terms of quality. Also, and I'm sure you appreciate this, I have problems with the Plotnickist use of the term "better". (Advance note: I have no wish to be drawn into this black hole again. Fool me once, etc...)

[Jinmyo]

By the way, Steve. The "creaminess" of risotto is of course really emulsified starch. Quite a different thing from cream. Cream is nice in a risotto. Very nice. But I like risotto without it as well.

[Fat Guy]

The creaminess of risotto comes from the starch as well as from whatever fats you finish the risotto with, be they olive oil, butter, cheese, cream, or other stuff (I've seen supposedly authentic recipes with mascarpone as well, and I suppose animal fats might work -- schmaltz risotto, anyone?). I believe this is called the "condimenti" stage in the risotto texts. You can try to make risotto edible without any condimenti, but it's an uphill battle. I agree that you have to look at your ingredients in order to decide the appropriate condimenti. But the Italian rigidity in this matter -- for example the blanket prohibition against cheese with seafood -- is in my opinion limiting and unnecessary.

[Jinmyo]

Sure, anything kept under a blanket too long will smell stale.

But I find that the "creaminess" of the rice starch with butter or sometimes even olive oil is often exquisite just as it is. But then I'm one of those people who like dipping vegetables into different olive oils and tasting. And also one who simply adores rice in all of its forms, especially good gohan. So sometimes cream just seems deadening instead of lifting. I like to monte (lift or mount) with lipids that seem lucent in that context.

[GordonCooks]

Isn't the essence of risotto the creaminess without the use of cream?

I'm just saying one CAN put cream in their risotto for some umph!

But - If one HAS to cream his risotto to achieve the correct texture - maybe one needs more stove time. I like to master the technique before I put my spin on it.

When Mario Batali uses cream a la mantecare - I'll do the same.