NYC Plans Limits on Restaurants’ Use of Trans Fats

[MissAmy]

I am of two minds on this issue. On one hand, I think it could be a good thing, as there is absolutely nothing culinarily superior about transfat. It IS terribly bad for you. And, when I think about a woman I used to work with who would take her three children through the McDonald's drive-thru every single day after school, I think maybe banning transfat across the board in every state is a good thing, if only for the sake of those three children. (Those kids were, I might add, three of the saddest cases of unintentional child absue (neglet? carelessness?) I have ever seen.)

On the other hand, I do see the slippery-slope argument. What next? No refined flours? No fatty cuts of meat? No cream? No full-fat yoghurt and cheese?

Basically, it's a tough call. I would like there to be no transfats to worry about, but at the same time how far are they going to go before certain foods are criminalized?

[Fat Guy]

Trans fats are not bad for you. The consumption of small amounts of trans fats is not only harmless but beneficial.

Trans fats occur naturally in many foods, such as meat and dairy products, that are essential elements of good public nutrition. The FDA says "eliminating trans fat completely from the diet would require such extraordinary dietary changes (e.g., elimination of foods, such as dairy products and meats that contain trans fatty acids) that eliminating trans fat could cause an inadequate intake of some nutrients and create health risks." http://www.cfsan.fda.gov/~dms/qatrans2.html#s2q3

Potential health problems (specifically the lowering of "good" cholesterol) occur when people eat large quantities of trans fats and saturated fats. There is some, not much, certainly not enough to justify regulation, evidence that trans fats ounce-for-ounce have more impact on blood chemistry than saturated fats. Most people eat many times as many saturated fats as trans fats, though, and there is little if any evidence that substituting saturated fats for trans fats will have a positive public health impact (not to mention, a couple of decades ago we were told we'd all die unless we replaced butter and lard with margarine aka trans fats). As the New York Times reported (quoted above):

"The National Academy of Sciences, the Department of Health and Human Services, the National Heart Lung and Blood Institute and the Food and Drug Administration have all come to the same conclusion: Trans fats are on a par with saturated fats, like butter or lard. Both increase cholesterol levels and most people would be better off if they ate less of all of them."

[Mallet]

Trans fats are not bad for you. The consumption of small amounts of trans fats is not only harmless but beneficial.

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Where did you get this from? The FAQ you linked certainly made no such claim.

[Fat Guy]

The relevant quote is in my post: "eliminating trans fat could cause an inadequate intake of some nutrients and create health risks."

I mention this not because the regulation, which only bans (severely limits) artificial trans fats, is going to eliminate trans fats from meat and dairy but, rather, because it's not even possible to have a reasonable discussion if we can't get people past the "trans fats are evil/toxic/carcinogenic" fallacy. It's much more complex than that. There are different types of trans fats, quantities are important and we also have to look at the substitutes.

[srhcb]

Here's a glimpse of what you're up against.

I think we could stipulate that The Wall Street Journal readership is somewhat better educated and more sophistcated than the general population?

Here's the current results from the online poll on www.wsj.com:

Would you support a ban on use of trans fats in restaurants in your city?

Yes 1405 votes 55%

No 1144 votes 45%

Total Votes : 2548

(Copyright © 2006 Dow Jones & Company, Inc. All Rights Reserved)

SB (go figure)

[Mallet]

The relevant quote is in my post: "eliminating trans fat could cause an inadequate intake of some nutrients and create health risks."

I mention this not because the regulation, which only bans (severely limits) artificial trans fats, is going to eliminate trans fats from meat and dairy but, rather, because it's not even possible to have a reasonable discussion if we can't get people past the "trans fats are evil/toxic/carcinogenic" fallacy. It's much more complex than that. There are different types of trans fats, quantities are important and we also have to look at the substitutes.

←

For sure, the risks associated with trans-fats must be agreed on in order to make a decision. I disagree with your interpretation of the FDA quote, however. Here's the full quote

According to experts, eliminating trans fat completely from the diet would require such extraordinary dietary changes (e.g., elimination of foods, such as dairy products and meats that contain trans fatty acids) that eliminating trans fat could cause an inadequate intake of some nutrients and create health risks.

I take this to mean that eliminating trans-fats completely would require cutting many essential foods, and that's what would be causing the potential health risks. The trans-fats themselves are not beneficial.

[Fat Guy]

The trans-fats themselves are not beneficial.

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Many of the studies I've seen indicate that some trans fats are indeed themselves beneficial, specifically the trans fatty acid CLA (conjugated linoleic acid). In addition, I'm not sure it makes sense to speak of the trans-fats themselves not being beneficial. If they're essential elements of meat and dairy, then meat and dairy don't exist without them. Though I suppose you can pick apart any piece of matter and get it down to "carbon itself isn't beneficial."

Conjugated linoleic acid (CLA) refers to a mixture of positional and geometrical isomers of octadecadienoic acids with conjugated double bonds. Conjugated linoleic acid has been demonstrated to possess a wide range of health benefits, which include suppression of carcinogenesis (Pariza and Hargraves, 1985; Ha et al., 1987; Ip et al., 1994), reduction in atherogenesis (Nicolosi et al., 1997), improvement in glycemic status in diabetic rats (Houseknecht et al., 1998), and modulation of the immune system (Cook et al., 1993). Conjugated linoleic acid has been identified in various food sources. Milk and other dairy products are considered to be good sources of CLA, while vegetable oils and seafood contain minimal amounts of these fatty acids (Chin et al., 1992). Conjugated linoleic acid is formed in the rumen as an intermediate in the biohydrogenation pathway (Shortland et al., 1955). It can also be formed in tissues from trans vaccenic acid by the action of the enzyme {Delta}9-desaturase (Griinari et al., 2000). trans-Vaccenic acid is an intermediate in the biohydrogenation of several polyunsaturated fatty acids.

http://jds.fass.org/cgi/content/full/86/10/3229

The statement "trans fats are bad" is simply false. Some trans fats are likely beneficial, some are essential parts of beneficial foods and some may very well be harmful in quantity.

[Darcie B]

There is some, not much, certainly not enough to justify regulation, evidence that trans fats ounce-for-ounce have more impact on blood chemistry than saturated fats.

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It would seem the Harvard School for Public Health would disagree with you on this point.

What are the arguments for listing trans fat separately from saturated fat?

The combined results of metabolic and epidemiologic studies strongly support an adverse effect of trans fat on risk of CHD. Furthermore, two independent methods of estimation indicate that the adverse effect of trans fat is stronger than that of saturated fat. By our most conservative estimate, replacement of partially hydrogenated fat in the U.S. diet with natural unhydrogenated vegetable oils would prevent approximately 30,000 premature coronary deaths per year, and epidemiologic evidence suggests this number is closer to 100,0000 premature deaths annually. These reductions are higher than what could be achieved with realistic reductions in saturated fat intake.

(Quote from Harvard School of Public Health webpage. )

However, even with that evidence, I still don't think a ban is called for. I really think that we should stop trying to protect us from ourselves. If we made every potential bad health decision illegal, there wouldn't be much left to do. I do think we should try harder to educate people about bad health choices. Then, leave it up to them.

[tommy]

i never understand the "education" alternative. how are you supposed to educate people? people don't want to be educated. if they did there wouldn't be so many stupid people out there.

using someone's television example from earlier, anyone who turns on a TV every now and again should know what's "bad" for them.

regardless, it's big news stories like this that help educate people. so i'm thankful this action was proposed. i bet there are now 10 more NYers than there were last week who will think twice about what they eat. we're gittin' our learn-on!

[Fat Guy]

It would seem the Harvard School for Public Health would disagree with you on this point.

To be clear, the Harvard School for Public Health doesn't disagree with me. The Harvard School for Public Health disagrees with the expert sources cited in the New York Times article I've linked to above. To wit:

Some studies of populations have shown what appear to be weak associations between consumption of trans fat and increased risk of heart disease, independent of the amount of saturated fat in the diet. But Dr. Grundy and others said the association is not strong enough to serve as the basis for a public recommendation.

As for New York restaurants, Dr. Cleeman advised them not to substitute saturated fat for trans fat. "That's not a help," he said.

In addition, the Harvard recommendation -- "replacement of partially hydrogenated fat in the U.S. diet with natural unhydrogenated vegetable oils" -- is not what this regulation achieves. The regulation in question would require replacement of partially hydrogenated fat, but not necessarily with "natural unhydrogenated vegetable oils." For deep frying, vegetable oils would work, but not for pastry and baking applications. Lard would be a perfectly acceptable substitute under the regulations, as would beef tallow, poultry fat or butter.

[adamru]

According to the Today Show this morning, a NJ state rep inspired by NYC's proposed ban is today proposing legistlation for a statewide ban of transfats.