Bread math

[chefpeon]

I suck at math. Even worse, I suck more at story problems.

Here is a story problem maybe someone can help me solve.

Question:

Based on 100lb of white flour with an 11.7 protein level, how much additional gluten do I need to add to raise the flour 1 point to 12.7?

Would the answer be 10%? I'm not sure.

[johnsmith45678]

I can't help with the math problem , but I have a dumb question - how do you add additional gluten? By mixing in whole wheat or another kind of flour, or can you buy gluten in some super secret bottle that I haven't come across?

Edited September 13, 2006 by johnsmith45678 (log)

[Beanie]

I can't help with the math problem  , but I have a dumb question - how do you add additional gluten? By mixing in whole wheat or another kind of flour, or can you buy gluten in some super secret bottle that I haven't come across? 

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Vital Wheat Gluten.

[jackal10]

Roughly 1lb per 100lb of flour (1%)

However its not quite that simple, since protein is only a rough estimate of gluten content, and the gluten is not 100% protein.

Why are you doing it anyway? It really won't make any difference to the dough, if you mix, perment and prove with good technique

[chefpeon]

Why are you doing it anyway? It really won't make any difference to the dough, if you mix, ferment and prove with good technique.

I have no idea.

Actually.....there's this guy in town who recently bought one of the two bread bakeries here. Every once in a while he stops by my kitchen, and asks me bread questions. He knows I was a bread lead and production manager at a large Seattle bakery and I help him with problems he's having.

Today, he asked me that bizarre question, and I said, "Dude, what the hell?" I've never gotten that technical with bread....I mean, c'mon. I'm totally into the science of it and all, but geez, those kinds of questions just take all the fun outta slappin' the dough around.....know what I mean? I bake a lot by "feel". I know what's right and I know what isn't.

Apparently he hired this hot shot bread guy, but hot shot ain't doin' so hot. So he told the owner guy that his flour didn't have enough protein and he needed to add gluten....blah blah blah. So owner guy wasn't sure if hot shot was feedin' him B.S. or what. So I told him I couldn't answer the math question but I've never in my life had to do stuff like add gluten to my breads to get them to work for me, and I think that's all he needed to know. He didn't want to get any wool pulled over his eyes since he's not a baker himself. It's really flattering to know that he comes by and trusts me for the answers. I also know if I want a bread job again in the future, I can probably go over to his shop.

Nice.

So while we're on the subject, what's your opinion of the whole "added protein/gluten" thing? Ever had to do it? Ever tried it? Would there really be any viable reason to?

[Desiderio]

Sorry I dont have an answer ( I suck big time at math as well ),but the story of the hot shot and slapping the bread around ,belong to a nice commedy line, or something like that

[alanamoana]

So while we're on the subject, what's your opinion of the whole "added protein/gluten" thing? Ever had to do it? Ever tried it? Would there really be any viable reason to?

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my guess (and it is only that, a guess) is the only time you'd need to add gluten to dough is when you're working with mostly low gluten flours/grains like whole wheats, ryes, semolina, cornmeal, etc.

but even most grocery store bread flours seem to have enough gluten for basic bread baking!

i think the "hot shot" is more like "hot snot" and needs to get back to basics before doctoring his dough!

[Bill44]

11.7% protein flour is quite a good protein level to work with (I use 11.9%). The need for Hot Shot is to improve his baking skills, not his flour protein level. Too high a protein level can quite often lead to bread with a leathery crumb. Quite a lot of commercial bread is made with flour around 11% and French breads are quite often made with 8-9% protein level.

[chefpeon]

However its not quite that simple, since protein is only a rough estimate of gluten content, and the gluten is not 100% protein.

Absolutely right, since I just read the package of my "Vital Wheat Gluten" and it says right on there that it is only 75-80% protein. That makes the math way too complicated for me!

my guess (and it is only that, a guess) is the only time you'd need to add gluten to dough is when you're working with mostly low gluten flours/grains like whole wheats, ryes, semolina, cornmeal, etc.

That's exactly what I say too. I have Vital Wheat Gluten for just those purposes....my 7 grain, and my rye.

The need for Hot Shot is to improve his baking skills, not his flour protein level.

i think the "hot shot" is more like "hot snot" and needs to get back to basics before doctoring his dough! laugh.gif

Yes, I do believe "Hot Snot" is probably full of "hot air", which is probably affecting his proofing times!!

So......did that bread get away from you, boy????? Bwa-ha-ha!!!

[johnsmith45678]

If your flour has mealy worms in it, does that increase its gluten level or just its protein level?

[SweetSide]

If your flour has mealy worms in it, does that increase its gluten level or just its protein level?

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Eeewwww -- but I don't think the gluten level would go up. Protein, yes. But what would be the impact of the added fiber?