Gin Lane -- NYC

[plattetude]

um, Gin Lane was marketed as a top-notch cocktail den with a staff trained by DeGroff himself.

And this thread has obviously and utterly subverted that marketing, at least to the audience on eGullet. If even their own cocktail menu can't be counted on for a well-crafted drink, why tempt fate by going off the menu?

furthemore, the Martinez is most definitely supremely simple and would show up on any list of the 5-10 seminal cocktails.

"Seminal" does *not* equal well-known. Should a martinez be in the standard repertoire of any good bartender? Perhaps so, but even so, I don't know that there's really any hard and fast standard recipe. All call for gin, sweet vermouth, and bitters to be sure, but some add maraschino liqueur (as I believe Jerry Thomas's version does), some add triple sec. Hardier cocktail scholars than I may convince me otherwise, but unless I specifically gave a bartender instruction as to what I'd expect my martinez to have (even at a place like Pegu), I wouldn't know what precisely I'd be getting anyway.

All of which is a digression from the simple point that Gin Lane is not held in high esteem by those who care about cocktails, as you yourself point out. So again, why tempt fate if you happen to be drinking there?

Christopher

Edited May 1, 2007 by plattetude (log)

[Nathan]

I agree with your larger point...assuming that someone was aware that the marketing was a joke. In my experience, most people aren't.

As for the martinez...I've never heard of any version that didn't include maraschino liqueur (to the best of my knowledge...versions only differ in the proportions.....there are early gin cocktails similar to the martinez that use orange curacao...but I haven't seen them referred to as the martinez)

[slkinsey]

As for the martinez...I've never heard of any version that didn't include maraschino liqueur (to the best of my knowledge...versions only differ in the proportions.....there are early gin cocktails similar to the martinez that use orange curacao...but I haven't seen them referred to as the martinez)

Actually, I think some of the oldest recipes don't call for maraschino, and some of them do call for curaçao.

JT's recipe calls for 2 ounces of (red) vermouth, one of Old Tom gin, 2 dashes of maraschino (let's call that a teaspoon) and a dash Boker's -- this is interesting because it is a vermouth drink, not a gin drink. Other recipes (see here for some historical examples) call for equal parts of (London dry?) gin and vermouth, a few dashes of bitters and either simple syrup or, you guessed it, curaçao. In some recipes (like this one) it's maraschino that's given as the optional liqueur, and curaçao that's given as standard.

[Nathan]

As for the martinez...I've never heard of any version that didn't include maraschino liqueur (to the best of my knowledge...versions only differ in the proportions.....there are early gin cocktails similar to the martinez that use orange curacao...but I haven't seen them referred to as the martinez)

Actually, I think some of the oldest recipes don't call for maraschino, and some of them do call for curaçao.

JT's recipe calls for 2 ounces of (red) vermouth, one of Old Tom gin, 2 dashes of maraschino (let's call that a teaspoon) and a dash Boker's -- this is interesting because it is a vermouth drink, not a gin drink. Other recipes (see here for some historical examples) call for equal parts of (London dry?) gin and vermouth, a few dashes of bitters and either simple syrup or, you guessed it, curaçao. In some recipes (like this one) it's maraschino that's given as the optional liqueur, and curaçao that's given as standard.

←

I have DeGroff's Craft of the Cocktail in front of me (don't ask how I have that at the office!). J.T.'s recipe appears to be the first one known. the Fancy Gin Cocktail from 1850 or before used curacao...but it also didn't use vermouth (which wasn't available in the U.S. yet). every cocktail book I have (including any likely to be referred to by a modern bartender) includes maraschino....

the cocktail d.b. recipe simply appears to be similar to a number of other cocktail d.b. recipes that sub out hard to find ingredients (which maraschino was until quite recently).

[slkinsey]

The Webtender Wiki entry I linked to gives a recipe from 1895 for the drink with simple syrup instead of either maraschino or curaçao (but calls for orange bitters), and another 1895 recipe that specifies curaçao. I'm not disagreeing that we know of this mostly as a drink with maraschino, I'm just pointing out that the versions with curaçao instead of maraschino predate the 20th century.

I wouldn't assume that the cocktailDB recipe dates from a time when maraschino was scarse in US bars (indeed, I assume quite the opposite). And I don't think the option was added editorially by them. To the best of my knowledge, they indicate substitutions and options only where they are found in the source recipes (they unfortunately don't give source information in their entries). If you would like to make a substitution in a recipe where none was indicated in the source material, you have to click the link for that spirit and read the entry to see their suggestions. With respect to maraschino, I think it's worthy of note that the best they can do is an "imperfect substitute."

Edited May 1, 2007 by slkinsey (log)

[Alchemist]

I don't have the foggiest clue why there are 20 posts on this thread on this awful place.

there are five top-notch cocktail bars in NY:

Pegu Club, Milk & Honey, Little Branch, Flatiron Lounge and Death & Co. (I haven't been to the Bemelman's in years so I can't comment on that).

a rung below that are places like Angel's Share, Employees Only, Temple Bar, East Side Company Bar...etc.  (at these places there's usually one or two bartenders that are really good...and some of house drinks that they can all make are usually quite palatable.  all of them tend to freepour unfortunately)

Gin Lane doesn't even make the third tier (which includes many decent restaurant and hotel bars).

←

I think that you are a bit myopic, no disrespect. The bartenders at Alto, the last head bartender at WD-50, The bartenders at SB3, a couple of the people behind the bar at Freemans. There is some wicked talent at Gold Bar. At SoHo grand there is a wonderful bartender. I am sure that there are wonderful bar keeps many places. To reference another thread where the hell is Del? A good bar has a million pros and a few cons. I have had wonderful cocktails all over the city, it just takes throwing yourself on the mercy of the bartender. Let them make what they are good at, be it a perfect Martinez, or let them shine at pouring a great pint of black and a atiitude adjustment of Red Breast.

Edited May 2, 2007 by Alchemist (log)

[Nathan]

I don't have the foggiest clue why there are 20 posts on this thread on this awful place.

there are five top-notch cocktail bars in NY:

Pegu Club, Milk & Honey, Little Branch, Flatiron Lounge and Death & Co. (I haven't been to the Bemelman's in years so I can't comment on that).

a rung below that are places like Angel's Share, Employees Only, Temple Bar, East Side Company Bar...etc.  (at these places there's usually one or two bartenders that are really good...and some of house drinks that they can all make are usually quite palatable.  all of them tend to freepour unfortunately)

Gin Lane doesn't even make the third tier (which includes many decent restaurant and hotel bars).

←

I think that you are a bit myopic, no disrespect. The bartenders at Alto, the last head bartender at WD-50, The bartenders at SB3, a couple of the people behind the bar at Freemans. There is some wicked talent at Gold Bar. At SoHo grand there is a wonderful bartender. I am sure that there are wonderful bar keeps many places. To reference another thread where the hell is Del? A good bar has a million pros and a few cons. I have had wonderful cocktails all over the city, it just takes throwing yourself on the mercy of the bartender. Let them make what they are good at, be it a perfect Martinez, or let them shine at pouring a great pint of black and a atiitude adjustment of Red Breast.

←

not really....I specifically said there are many places in the third tier. and the fact that you can only order "what they are good at" is precisely the problem. Junior Merino's cocktails are still on the menu at Bar Room at the Modern...and are still well-made. but I got a really crappy sidecar. there are quite a few places like that in NY. but if I can't get a good sidecar (for goodness sakes!), it's not a first or second tier bar.