FoH Staff That Judge the BoH

[Sneakeater]

Maybe it depends on what you mean by "dressy". You're expected to be pretty stylish here in New York. But when I would visit my in-laws in a major Midwestern city, say, or when I would travel to the Southwest, I would always notice that my wife's and my ideas of what was appropriate or necessary always seemed to be a notch or so below what was prevelant. For example, I'd be comfortable without a tie, or my wife would be comfortable in slacks. Similarly, here, as I said above, you can almost pick out visitors in restaurants by how much more conventionally formally they're dressed than most of the locals.

I'd almost say that in New York what's most important is that your outfit be dark enough.

[Sneakeater]

Some pertinent stuff (about the topic and this recent sub-topic) here:

http://forums.egullet.org/index.php?showto...43541&hl=slacks

[Sugarella]

Does anybody really think that what therese describes in this post is wrong?

http://forums.egullet.org/index.php?act=ST...dpost&p=1172242

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Absolutely not!

The front window of a restaurant is in essence the same as the display window for a store..... people outside look at it to decide whether or not to go in so it's just good business sense to make it as attractive as possible.

You'll never see people in grubby clothes in that front window, or grumpy people arguing with one another, or people NOT talking to each other and just staring off into space. You'll also never see a herd of frat boys banging their fists on the table or a bunch of screaming kids running around it either. Everything you can see of a restaurant from outside is an ad for the restaurant, good or bad.

....

Had no idea waiters made so much, though.

Edited to add: Dammit!! ....shoulda been a waiter.

Edited August 4, 2006 by Sugarella (log)

[barolo]

Does anybody really think that what therese describes in this post is wrong?

http://forums.egullet.org/index.php?act=ST...dpost&p=1172242

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Absolutely not!

The front window of a restaurant is in essence the same as the display window for a store..... people outside look at it to decide whether or not to go in so it's just good business sense to make it as attractive as possible.

You'll never see people in grubby clothes in that front window, or grumpy people arguing with one another, or people NOT talking to each other and just staring off into space. You'll also never see a herd of frat boys banging their fists on the table or a bunch of screaming kids running around it either. Everything you can see of a restaurant from outside is an ad for the restaurant, good or bad.

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Here's an example from elsewhere on eGullet: C.C. Restaurant wants look-gooders

[Sneakeater]

New restaurants of a certain type comp models and the like all the time.* I don't get what the excitement is about that.

And to say they're trying to attract an emptily stylish crowd is a little off the mark. They're trying to attract money.

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* New restaurants also hold reservations for the fashion and publishing industries all the time.

Edited August 4, 2006 by Sneakeater (log)

[Pan]

This may initially seem off-topic, but it really isn't.

It really pisses me off that people wear jeans and sneakers to (non-pop) concerts and theatrical performances.  I think it's disrespectful to the performers.[...]

As a classical performer, I have to tell you I strongly disagree. I want people to come to my performances, and I'm happy they're there, regardless of what they're wearing. Furthermore, when I'm not performing at a concert, I dress informally, myself. I'll bet if you ask other classical performers whether they feel disrespected because someone came to hear them while wearing jeans, you'll get a lot of laughs from them.

Thanks for that response. I was really hoping to hear from you.

Interestingly, I disagree. But that could be largely a function of the different areas of classical music in which Michael and I work. In opera, glamor is part of the deal. I don't think it's respectful to the performers, to the (usually quite elegant) venue or to the other attendees when someone wears shorts and a t-shirt to the Metropolitan Opera. Met Opera in the Park? Different story. I hold similar views on, say, Le Bernadin and Shake Shack.

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I don't wear shorts and a t-shirt to the Met (not my style, but besides, I'd freeze my ass off!), but I do wear khakhis and a button-down shirt that's not tucked in, with hiking boots on my feet so as not to make them uncomfortable (my formal shoes are OK for when I'm onstage but no good for walking in). I don't dress up but do try to make myself presentable, in more or less the same way as when I teach or eat out at a casual restaurant. (If it helps, I almost always sit way up in the cheap seats.) Similarly, I've found that people who wear black jeans but a long-sleeve button-down shirt do fine in upscale places that don't absolutely require suits, but painters who wear paint-spattered clothing in such establishments get stares from other patrons. I've never been influenced by anyone who felt I should have worn a suit just to go to the opera or shouldn't have laughed at the hilarious moment in a Haydn symphony, but I do wear a suit for a meal that I feel warrants it. I think part of what explains my approach is that a trip to a luxe restaurant is a special occasion for me, whereas a trip to an opera where I'm in the audience rather than the pit is a busman's holiday and a time to relax and just concentrate on what's on stage. I think there's a range of acceptable clothing in most places, and that as long as people dress presentably, what's most important is how they behave. If you're going to a concert, turn off your damned cellphones so that they don't start ringing during the softest and most tender moment, shut up, and don't fiddle with your throat lozenges. And don't fall asleep and snore! Similarly, at a restaurant, don't misbehave (I needn't describe types of misbehavior in restaurants).

Edited August 5, 2006 by Pan (log)

[alanamoana]

after all is said and done, i'd rather people smell good than dress presentably.

i ate lunch at chez panisse the other day and (thank goodness we were ending our meal) an older gentleman who looked homeless (but it's berkeley, so that doesn't matter much) was sat right next to us. unfortunately, he smelled homeless as well. he was treated well, i think he was a regular, but i wouldn't have paid half as much attention to what he was wearing (or any attention to him at all) if he didn't smell so bad. the kind of stench you can cut with a knife.

ugh!

[Alchemist]

Or people who show up at resturants after having froliced in fountains of eau de toilette.

Edited to correct a bone headed mistake

Edited August 5, 2006 by Alchemist (log)

[MarketStEl]

New restaurants of a certain type comp models and the like all the time.*  I don't get what the excitement is about that.

And to say they're trying to attract an emptily stylish crowd is a little off the mark.  They're trying to attract money.

_________________________________________________

* New restaurants also hold reservations for the fashion and publishing industries all the time.

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That thread comes from the Pennsylvania forum. It's a Center City Philadelphia restaurant we're talking about. Pace what the editors of Philadelphia Style think, this is not a city that goes for showiness for showiness' sake or places where how you look determines how worthy you are (aside from the usual dress codes for certain places). There was something about the tone of that announcement that was, well, un-Philadelphian. Especially the open solicitation of Beautiful People on philadelphia.craigslist.org. Oh, I'm sure it's happened before, but not so visibly.

Given the speculation about what restaurant issued the call, they'd have to attract money--the rest of us could only afford to eat there on special occasions.

[Squirrelly Cakes]

I can't believe the snobbery from some of you people! You really think a waiter is looking down on you becasue you're not wearing $800 shoes!? They can't afford $800 shoes themselves so they certainly wouldn't look down on anyone else who can't either.

This isn't about what you can afford or how rich you appear to be. It's about how you're behaving. You don't show up to a fancy place in the same clothes you'd wear to the laundromat, for pete's sake, it's a blatant act of disrespect to the restauranteur and his/her staff who are puttng the effort into maintaining the place as classy. Your waiter should never be dressed better than you. Even if the waiter has to wear a tux, your clothing should at least be as tidy and clean pressed as theirs is, even if what you're wearing is less formal.

By walking into a fancy place wearing jeans where you are clearly underdressed, you're simply stating, "I control this atmosphere despite what the staff or other patrons want, because the whole world revolves around me." It's that attitude from the get-go that has everyone else copping attitude in response.

Next time, lose the attitude, wearing something dress casual, and try not to fart at the table. 

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OK, so I didn't have to say any of that stuff, cuz Sugarella said it better. Sorry.

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I don't think I missed the point at all - I have read the thread completely.

First of all, these establishments should either post dress requirements or turn away those that they feel are not suitably attired rather than sit them and then treat them badly. And that was my point.

In addition my post was in reference to the comments regarding how serving staff size up people by the price of their clothes, their haircuts and the sophistication of their order pairings.

Of course you dress appropriately for the established dress code. But once you are seated at a table you should be able to expect the same quality of food and service that the more financially lucky patrons receive. Isn't that what a good restaurant is all about, consistency? Or is it more about the staff using their condescending and judgemental attitudes and less than gracious manners treating less financially fortunate folks with disdain so they will know their place - and then taking their hard-earned money for the "privilege"?

[Rebecca263]

I have a dear friend who is a noted artist and an anarchist of note, as well. This very well known man owns one pair of shoes, and they are sneakers. He always wears the same 'uniform', a dark cotton t-shirt and a pair of Iron Levi's. He's eaten at many VERY chi-chi places, and if anyone ever looked askance at his wardrobe, I've certainly never seen it. But, I'd like to, he's brilliant in awkward situations.