Report from West Coast Trip

[Todd36]

I recently went on a drive from LA to Sonoma, mostly on the Pacific Coastal Highway, over the course of about ten days. I couldn't really make this into a food trip, but I did come way with a couple of observations. I figured to put this in NY, partly because I am comparing this to NY.

1. I had the best strawberries I have ever had, and they were large, violating my usual theory about size and strawberries. They also did not come from a farmer's market, but rather from a fruit stand in the middle of a strawbarry field in Castroville. The interesting point was that the strawberries did not come from the field, a discussion with the person in charge indicated that someone else owned the field that the stand sat in, and those strawberries were under commerical contract. The strawberries that the stand was selling actually came from 7 miles away, had not been cooled (something that seemed to be important to her), were sold within 36 hours of delivery and were selected by her based on taste. Further web reseach has shown that the person in charge was the owner and the name of the stand is Dominic's Farm. These were significantly better than any of the strawberries being sampled at the SF Ferry Building Farmer's Market. They were also way better than anything sold at the Union Square market in NY. By the way, did I mention that they were $1.25 a pint? 6 pints for $6.

2. Oh yes, the SF Ferry Building Farmer's Market. The building itself has quite a few nice food shops in it, and reminds me of a cleaned up Reading Market (the one in Philly) or a larger version of the Portland, Maine market. For example, Cowgirl Creamery, who makes some very nice but expensive cheese. It also has a branch of Taylor's Automatic, a well known burger place from Napa. I think Shack Shake makes a better burger, and the ones at Taylor's are almost twice as expensive. Acme Bread was also very good. Overall, the Ferry Building itself just blows the Grand Central Station food market and food court off the wall. One catch is that everything in the Ferry building is quite expensive, even by Manhattan standards.

I made it to the farmer's market itself on a Friday and it's a little misnamed. At least 15 different stands were acting as essentially mini-restaurants, for example selling BBQ ribs, burgers and the like. The farmer's market is tightly run and clean, you see none of the sprawl of some stands of the Union Square market and no dirt covered things, no Ornery farm types. It's almost corporate. I actually didn't see all that much in the way of unusual things being sold, all of your standard things of course, but not 15 kinds of eggplant or the like. Quality, with one exeception, didn't seem to be different from Union Square. The exception was stone fruits, which were both plentiful and much better than anything we can get in NY. Kashiwase Farms was the standout. White nectarines that cannot be described. I was able to sample stone fruit from about 10 places, and their was the best.

3. In a purely random attempt at locating a decent tamale, I stopped at Lucy's Tamale Factory in Watsonville. Yes, they were better than anything in NY, and cheap to boot. Light, with a nice flavor. Name of Lucy's notwithstanding, downtown Watsonville is not a tourist area.

4. For bizzare reasons best not explained, I ate twice at Ton Kiang in Richmond in SF. Even more bizzare, and I don't know how well known this is, the owner of Ton Kiang is Burmese (although ethnic Chinese). This was discoverd when I figured out that our waitress couldn't speak Chinese, she admitted that she spoke Burmese and that we should try the tea leaf salad next time we stopped in!!!! Anyway, they are one of SF's better known dim sun places. They only use one cart, for congee. Everything else is carried on trays. Focus is on dumplings, didn't see much else. Steamed pork buns were too sweet and I've had better in NY. Stir fried greens and few other random dishes were good, but not better than Oriental Garden. Su Mai were fine. Dumplings however are a different story. Much better than any I've had anywhere else, tender, not sticky skin with good bite and mouth feel. They taste good too. My favorite were the shrimp and green chive, which were lightly pan fried. The waitress said they were her favorite as well. Potstickers were also great. Various steamed shrimp dumplings were also the best I've ever had, for example, shrimp with pea shoots. I did have a chance to walk though the main area of Chinatown. It's cleaner than any NY version, including the live chicken market. Next time I'm back, I'm going to have to do more exploring. It didn't have many obvious not for the locals restaurants.

5. An ordinary faux Mexican place in downtown Sonoma, Maya, was better than anything we have in NY, for example Rosa Mexacana.

6. I had dinner at Cafe La Haye in Sonoma, It's good, with very good vegetables, local I am sure, but it's priced like a two star and I think it's basically a two star, but with better vegetables. It manages I think a 27 in Zagat's..... I don't think it could get that rating in NY.

[magic168]

Re: Farmer's Market

The farmer's market is only in "full blast" on Saturday mornings/early afternoons. Tuesday around lunchtime/Thursday nights, there is a MUCH smaller version available. I didn't even know they put out stands on Fridays. So, the "farmer's market" is not fully a misnomer...only on certain days.

[Todd36]

Yes, it was a Saturday morning!!! Lost track of which day. Another thing I got at the farmer's market were pistachios from Alfieri Farms, which were not impressive.

[docsconz]

Moderator's note:

Since this is posted in New York this topic needs to remain relevant to New York. Todd's intention is to compare his experiences in California to what is in New York. Anything that does not conform to that is off-topic unless specifically adressing an informational point such as Ferry Plaza Market Farmer's Market days as above. Please keep any responses within these parameters.

Personally, even in these days of intense globalization, I find it very difficult to compare California and New York. While New York has wonderful Farmers markets, they cannot compare to California's for diversity. What is available in New York is done exceptionally well, it is just that there are so many wonderful things available in California throughout the year. It is for this reason that I find that the California restaurants that tend to excel compare to their NY peers are those that emphasize fresh and local. Ny is great in the summer, but restaurants like Chez Panisse are great year-round. I think NY is better in terms of haute cuisine though.

[russ parsons]

that's an interesting comparison doc. and a corrolary to that would be my observation than when it comes to "technique" restaurants, generally new york has it all over us in california (with a few quite notable exceptions). but technique is most necessary where ingredients sometimes come up short.

[freshherbs]

one thing that Union Square Greenmarket has that SF can't touch?

Martin's Pretzels--the best around.

One thing that SF has that NYC can never touch?

Zona Rosa burritos on 17th and Valencia and the tamale lady in the Mission often found at Zeitgeist bar on Duboce and Valencia. okay, that's 2 things

[Todd36]

There were flashes that show I think that a well run restaurant in California can take advantage of good ingredents. Maya for example was serving very high quality greens in its salad, on a level of say Cafe Grey in NY. Their web site is http://www.mayarestaurant.com/main.html BTW. Maya is operating at a price point about half that of Cafe Gray. On the other hand, Sefton Pistachios sold by Zabar's are significantly better than what I bought at the Ferry Building Farmer's Market (note, I sampled about 6 of their products and were impressed by none, I bought the pistachois as a souvener). I also sampled stone fruit and strawberries from at least 10 stands. All were at least good, but only a couple were noticable better than what I can get in NY. Prices were also high. This may tell you about the taste buds of the masses: plenty of people are buying good, but not great stuff, while clearly better stuff was being sold 10 feet away. I also wasn't stuck by the selection as being particularily exotic, it was rather white bread in fact, except for those stone fruit. I didn't see anyone selling microgreens and fresh eggs seemed to be sold by only one stand. There was also little of the fresh meat that you see at Union Square. Acme bread, which is quite well known, and is a store inside the building, had almost nothing whole wheat, which suprised me. It was a very nice farmer's market, don't get me wrong. But it wasn't gee, this is great beyound what I have experienced before...except for some of the stone fruit.

Truth be told, my favorite restaurant for the money, and which also takes advanatge of local ingredents, is Hominy Grill. I admit that I did not sample high end CA cuisine.

[phaelon56]

Another thing the Ferry Building market has the the Union Square market lacks is a great coffee cart. Blue Bottle Coffee of Oakland has a stand there and although I didn't try the stand (was not there on a market day) I did try their kiosk in Hayes Valley and also tried their product as served at the Bittersweet Chocolate Cafe in Okland. Bittersweet is worth a visit if only for the vast selection of chocolate bars available - including many single origin varietals I've never seen elsewhere.

NYC's Mud Truck doesn't come close to matching the espresso quality that Blue Bottle offers. If Gimme! Coffee of Williamsburg (Brooklyn) were to open a Manhattan cart at the Union Square market akin to the one they have at the Ithaca Farmers market... there would be many happy espresso campers in NYC.

As for the strawberries - I think there are many commercial fruits (i.e. not organic and not from small specialty farms) available in California that are far superior to what NYC typically gets - because excellent growing conditions and the option to pick and sell when it gets fully ripe (and without refrigerating it along the way) allow for much better product.

[docsconz]

While not inexpensive, I have received better fruit from California via mailorder than I have ever found retail in NYC. In the height of the season I can get excellent NY peaches, but still not at the level of California.

My experience at Ferry Plaza in March sounds like it was much better than the one Todd describes above, but then I think that is when it will be significantly more impressive. Right now is the season when NY produce shines. Caolifornia produce shines all year long.

[donbert]

I miss being able to buy the ripest white peaches from the back of a pick up truck at the side of random roads during the summer in LA.

[moosnsqrl]

I had to re-read the initial post several times - I've always considered the Ferry Plaza market the ne plus ultre for quality and variety and I've probably been there at least once in every month of the year at some point. During the last few years, however, I have found myself in Hollywood on Sunday mornings and have developed a real fondness for that market (in spite of the unsavory character who was there June 18).

I've been to several green markets in NYC (although admittedly not in high season) less frequently and enjoyed what was there but found it more limited. I generally try to visit Manhattan at a time when everyone else is not doing so (i.e. not in summer) but perhaps I'll have to rethink that and come just for a market comparison. I'd be interested to hear from you natives when the absolute peak is (realizing that there will be varying opinions, depending on affinity for habaneros versus stone fruits, for example).

I, to, experienced mind-bendingly outstanding strawberries: Gaviotas. I don't believe they ever get very large, though, so probably not the same as you had.

Oh, I would be remiss if I didn't point out the strong advantage of Ferry Plaza in that they have those incomprable Rancho Gordo products.

[docsconz]

I've been to several green markets in NYC (although admittedly not in high season) less frequently and enjoyed what was there but found it more limited.  I generally try to visit Manhattan at a time when everyone else is not doing so (i.e. not in summer) but perhaps I'll have to rethink that and come just for a market comparison.  I'd be interested to hear from you natives when the absolute peak is (realizing that there will be varying opinions, depending on affinity for habaneros versus stone fruits, for example).

I would think August and September are the best months for diversity and quality of product for NY greenmarkets.

Oh, I would be remiss if I didn't point out the strong advantage of Ferry Plaza in that they have those incomprable Rancho Gordo products.

←

One can get the incomparable Rancho Gordo products via the internet, but one can only get Rancho Gordo himself in California.

[Todd36]

The Union Square farmer's market is far and away the best of them in NY, based on my experience. A fair number of the farmers at the Ferry Market appear to be fairly large operations, for example Kashiwase Farms, whose stuff I loved, has 220 acres of trees according to various web sites. The farmers just were not running out of things, cases and cases of fruit and strawberries and whatever. You also have things like Hog Island Oyster, which is a pretty large commerical operation. They are clearly larger operations than most of what you have in NY. It just feels different. No dirt encursted garlic...things are clean and pretty. No pet duck runing around in the back of the truck. And as I said, I didn't notice microgreens or to my surprise, much in the way of Asian vegetables. Most of the stuff Yuno sells at Union Square was not to be found. You can find a list of the farmers at the Ferry Building at http://www.cuesa.org/markets/farmers/ One striking thing is that quite a lot of the farmers, perhaps 1/3, grow fruit on trees, both stone and things like apples. That is more than you see in NY. I did stop in a couple of other California farmer's markets, one in Sonoma and one around San Luis Obispo. Those were closer to what you see in NY, in the sense that they were less polished and seemed less commerical. Given SF's location, they have many farms to choose from and I think while there are many great things at the Ferry Building, it has a commercial feel to it. In the Ferry Building itself, check out the $30 hats at Farmgirl Creamery.....

In the interest of science, I just ate a white nectarine from Fairway, at $3.99. It probably ranked in the lower third of the Ferry Building farmer's market.....

[ludja]

Interesting to hear your impressions...

The Alemany Market (also in SF) has quite a few Asian and Hispanic vendors and while the market is smaller, they seems to have some types of things that the Ferry Market has less of, like Asian greens.

There are so many good markets out here to choose from though--in my neighborhood (Silicon Valley) I have the Palo Alto, Mountain View and Sunnvyale markets all within 10 miles of each other. The vendors at these places seem to be from pretty small farms and there is more of a laid back feeling and, of course, cheaper prices. I still enjoy the SF Ferry Market though and try to make it up there as often as possible.

The stone fruits *are* stupendous right now and it is really great to be able to taste before you buy in order to get the best specimens.