Bribes to the Maitre D'

[NYC Mike]

Here's a question to those who grease:

When you pre-tip, you are essentially saying, "I'm better/busier/more important/richer/etc./choose-one-or-more-of-the-previous" than everyone else who has been waiting in line longer than I, so I deserve a table right now."

Why do you think you are better/busier/more important/richer/etc./choose-one-or-more-of-the-previous than everyone else who has been waiting in line longer than you, and why should you deserve a table before them (aside from being better, busier/more important/etc)?

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I don't look at it that way at all. I am saying "look, I understand you see dozens of people every night and you work very hard at what you do. Take this and a real good look at me, I am going to take care of you, so take care of me.

mike

[rich]

Here's a question to those who grease:

When you pre-tip, you are essentially saying, "I'm better/busier/more important/richer/etc./choose-one-or-more-of-the-previous" than everyone else who has been waiting in line longer than I, so I deserve a table right now."

Why do you think you are better/busier/more important/richer/etc./choose-one-or-more-of-the-previous than everyone else who has been waiting in line longer than you, and why should you deserve a table before them (aside from being better, busier/more important/etc)?

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I can't speak for everyone who tips, but I don't think that's the reason it's done the majority of time. Sure, there are the boorish who do this just because they can (I believe they're a miniscule minority), but most of the time there's a specific reason. I could list a few of the reasons I do it, but I can't say who it applies to or who it doesn't.

Special occasion "to insure promptness" (tip) and maybe just a touch of special treatment that might become necessary during the course of the evening.

If I don't have a reservation at a resto that's particularly busy that evening - could get me a table before others who have no reservation. Or possibly be seated immediately when they have a cancellation or no-show. That's a supply/demand situation and says I was stupid for not making a reservation, so I hope this (a tip), in some way, makes up for my glaring mistake.

An appointment that can't be missed, ie theater, travel arrangements etc - asked to be seated ASAP.

Business or social dinner that will take a long time and/or the need of some privacy - possibly a requested special table that affords that luxury and patience.

To show that your interested in the place, its food and the staff that will be serving you - sometimes it leads to an extra tasting plate or after dinner drink etc. It shows you understand these people make their living from "tips."

I probably could go on for awhile, but I hope you get the concept from the above five examples. I don't think anyone does it all the time, just those occasions that warrant it. Sometimes it just might get you that extra pickle with your pastrami sandwich.

(As an aside I've also seen some people work their magic without a money transaction. I've known people to appeal to the heart. In other words, they lie to the host/hostess about a special anniversary, birthday, the "in town for one night line," even a "recovery from sickness and first night out." I think that type of behavior certainly should be considered immoral, but not tipping.)

I'm sure tipping doesn't work for everyone, but if done discreetly and respectfully then everyone's happy. There are no losers.

[ingridsf]

So whether you call it a bribe or pre-tipping, are you going to be as open to it when the gal who cuts your paycheck starts expecting a little something-something to help her remember how many hours you really did work? Or your manager needs some encouragement to keep scheduling you?

To clarify, what I'm objecting to is having to pay someone extra to do the routine tasks of their job. That's why I use the perjorative term that started this thread -- bribing. Tips are a way of showing appreciation for going that extra mile (pls note I've said earlier I object to staff being paid largely in tips). Bribes are a desparation ploy to get the table you reserved but have watched walk-ins get, or not dent your car while they're parking it.

[Daniel]

My fish guy gets money, my deli meat slicer gets money, my butcher gets money,I even tip the guy where I buy beer from at the bodega...All these things get me better service and products...

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You tip the deli meat slicer?

Is it really a question of better service and better product? Or is it a question of feeling in control, the sense that the world works a certain way because you (and here I don't mean Daniel, but pretty much anybody) make it work that way?

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Seriously speaking, I didnt add the other people I tip too.. Off the top of my head, I tip the guy who gives me coffee beans.. I always get more for my money..They print the ticket and they add more to the pile... And if you are getting prosciutto di parma or Blue Mountain Coffee it really adds up.. There was one guy who was charging me for regular Columbian instead of Blue Mountain.. I quickly stopped that because it was literally stealing 15 bucks a pound of coffee.. He was also in charge of the caviar and foie gras department at a particular place.. But a few extra bucks here and there, is always good..

[Daniel]

Here's a question to those who grease:

When you pre-tip, you are essentially saying, "I'm better/busier/more important/richer/etc./choose-one-or-more-of-the-previous" than everyone else who has been waiting in line longer than I, so I deserve a table right now."

Why do you think you are better/busier/more important/richer/etc./choose-one-or-more-of-the-previous than everyone else who has been waiting in line longer than you, and why should you deserve a table before them (aside from being better, busier/more important/etc)?

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What I am essentially saying is.. Here is 20 bucks.. Now its up to you to take it.. Although I am not better or busier or more important, maybe my friend MR. Jackson is... And honestly, this man is one of this countries greatest men.. Are you trying to say you are better then Andrew Jackson.. I think not.. The sacrifices that man made for this country can not be taken lightly..

Edited April 15, 2006 by Daniel (log)

[rich]

Bribes are a desparation ploy to get the table you reserved but have watched walk-ins get, or not dent your car while they're parking it.

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You're going to the wrong places and parking on some pretty mean streets my friend. You need to upgrade in a hurry.

[ingridsf]

You're going to the wrong places and parking on some pretty mean streets my friend. You need to upgrade in a hurry.

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Maybe I'm just misunderstanding some of the earlier posts, or even the article that started this whole thing. Some of the examples people mention as pre-tip-worthy do sound above-and-beyond, but others sound like rewarding people for meeting the minimal demands of the job.

It could be my streets are not so much mean as naive. I thought restaurants pretty much seated people in the order they showed if they didn't have a reservation, and that if you were polite about asking for another table or whatever, they'd do it if it was available. Instead, the article and some posts showed this kind of stuff being up for bid. In some places, not everywhere.

[rich]

Isn't the term pre-tipping redundant?

If tip means to insure promptness, then what does pre-tip mean? - to send the tip ahead via FedEx?

[Dignan]

Isn't the term pre-tipping redundant?

If tip means to insure promptness, then what does pre-tip mean? - to send the tip ahead via FedEx?

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It probably doesn't mean that:

Snopes

Ask/Wikipedia

Alpha Agora discussion

Straight Dope

The last includes the "i/ensure prompt service" as one idea; but it appears to have been written in 1976, and says that an NYC tip is appropriately 20%, which I thought was interesting on its own...

Edited April 15, 2006 by Dignan (log)

[purplewiz]

I just wish I could afford to do it.  When I see it done, I'm totally envious.

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That's pretty much been my thought as I've been reading this thread - man, I want THEIR jobs !

Marcia.

[ingridsf]

I think the general public's understanding of tipping is that it's part of paying the bill, and that they don't even know it's an acronym. It's the *hope* of a tip that insures the prompt service.

Somebody up-thread introduced the term "pre-tip" as a way of not using the word bribe because they thought it sounded too harsh.

Edited April 15, 2006 by ingridsf (log)

[TheFoodTutor]

If tip means to insure promptness,

Ah, but the thing is, it doesn't. Click!

After seeing that particular legend over and over in this thread, I simply couldn't keep myself from clarifying.

And I'll go ahead and place myself in the camp firmly against bribing the Maitre d.' Giving away something that belongs to the owner of the establishment, whether it is a table, or some extra coffee, or some biscotti with your latte, or a free dessert, etc., is simply stealing from someone in exchange for getting a tip from someone else, and it should never be allowed. I worked in a place where the Maitre d' did this regularly, years ago, and I could always tell when he was doing it, because he'd write a special code on the chit which meant, basically that these were friends of the Maitre d.' Not such good friends that he'd actually know their names and write them on the chit, which he did for his actual friends, but the indication was there that we should treat this person as a special guest. I never liked these people, particularly because they didn't tip me terribly well at all, especially after the Maitre d' comped an appetizer and a dessert, in exchange for the bill he'd received.

I've never bribed a Maitre d', nor taken a bribe, but I did once get an unexpected tip from a first-time guest to a very nice restaurant who, through a mistake made by the general manager, was seated in a primo booth. I saw the mistake as it was happening, but was helpless to stop it, even though I knew the booth might be reserved for regular guests scheduled to come in later that evening. When I seated the gentleman and his guest, he palmed me a $20, and it was a moment before I realized that he thought he was rewarding me for getting him a nice table. I felt that I'd be doing more harm than good if I gave him back the $20 and explained that we'd only accidentally seated him there, so I just left the matter unspoken and let him enjoy what turned out to be a terrific meal and a great first experience at the restaurant.

I hope I didn't screw up my karma by doing that.

[rich]

What about FedEx? Does the Sports Betting Book have a problem with that term?

While we're at it, somone should reseach the word bribe - hint: comes from Latin.

Either way, I'm sure everyone's karma is safe for today - it's Good Friday.

[Dignan]

A tip, whatever you think its etymological provenance, is a sort of contingent reward for providing a service. The amount of the reward is contingent on how well the service is provided. Therefore we must wait until after the service is provided to give a proper tip. An amount given before any extant service should be called something else.

[Dignan]

Bribe.

"bribe (n.) Look up bribe at Dictionary.com

1386, "thing stolen," from O.Fr. "morsel of bread given to beggars," from briber "to beg," a general Romantic word, of uncertain origin. Shift of meaning to "gift given to influence corruptly" is first attested 1535."

[Daniel]

The scariest type of tipping I have heard of is in China.. Dr's get red envelopes from patients before going into surgery.. I would certainly find out what the average amount is expected..

[rich]

Bribe.

"bribe (n.) Look up bribe at Dictionary.com

    1386, "thing stolen," from O.Fr. "morsel of bread given to beggars," from briber "to beg," a general Romantic word, of uncertain origin. Shift of meaning to "gift given to influence corruptly" is first attested 1535."

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Actually the "old Romantic word" is not of uncertain origin at all. It may be quite surprising to learn where it originated. I'm sure someone will find it soon - possibly on the sports book site.

Daniel - we're not allowed to call it tip before the service, so those doctors in China are getting a bribe. I hope they don't know the origin of the term.

[Daniel]

So people who give money to colleges so there kids are ensured of getting in are actually bribing the University? I thought that was called a "donation"...

And are all those envelopes people give out on Christmas not really presents. They are bribes? Get out of here. I am not expecting service, I just feel obligated to pay people because its Christmas.. I thought I had a Santa complex..

Edited April 15, 2006 by Daniel (log)

[Megan Blocker]

So people who give money to colleges so there kids are ensured of getting in are actually bribing the University?  I thought that was called a "donation"...

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Actually, it's called insurance.

[ingridsf]

I'm relieved to see I'm not the only one who thought "pre-tipping" or tips-before-service was straining the concept!

Also, no matter how many folks do it, I still have a gut-level response of apprehension to just shrugging at bribing as "business is business." And the fact that the bribes don't seem to be shared among staff as tips often are is just one reason.

[therese]

Seriously speaking, I didnt add the other people I tip too.. Off the top  of my head, I tip the guy who gives me coffee beans..  I always get more for my money..They print the ticket and they add more to the pile... And if you are getting prosciutto di parma or Blue Mountain Coffee it really adds up.. There was one guy who was charging me for regular Columbian instead of Blue Mountain.. I quickly stopped that because it was literally stealing 15 bucks a pound of coffee.. He was also in charge of the caviar and foie gras department at a particular place.. But a few extra bucks here and there, is always good..

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So it's okay if the guy is skimming just a couple of bucks per transaction from his boss, but not if it's a whole $15?

And in the end it's the other customers who will eventually end making up the skim, as the boss will increase prices to make up for the loss.

[Dignan]

So people who give money to colleges so there kids are ensured of getting in are actually bribing the University?  I thought that was called a "donation"...

And are all those envelopes people give out on Christmas not really presents.  They are bribes?  Get out of here.  I am not expecting service, I just feel obligated to pay people because its Christmas.. I thought I had a Santa complex..

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I'll leave aside the University situation, because that has more to do with legacy and prior relationships. No, I guess I won't leave it aside because it dove tails in to the envelopes at Xmas idea if I understand what you mean by that -- for the mailperson, the doorperson, etc? Correct me if I'm wrong.

But those are different. I wouldn't call those bribes, and I think we can show why they are not, though I may not be able to adequately distinguish them for your purposes.

They are part of an ongoing relationship between the parties. If I decide to give a Xmas tip to the doorpeople of my building, I don't really gain anything but goodwill. If I don't, and the doorperson doesn't do their otherwise assigned duties when it comes to me, then they should be fired. What do I gain except for a better, more positive relationship, which was already defined before I did it? I don't get preferred door opening, do I? How does that compare to the $20 for first seating to a M D' you never met before?

I am a member of a private club. Tips at this club are mandated (lotsa old folks). I often tip beyond that amount for servers who make me apppreciate the fact that they know that they are already being tipped. I tip to the employee Xmas bonus fund every year. I don't have to, and I assume they don't know whether I do or not. I also give cash payments at the holidays to those I particularly get along with, and that usually is either a palmed bill or a greeting card with a bill in it. I'm not saying we can't give people money in appreciation for their services. But in these cases, I think I can say without being hippocritical, it'a a thank you for what has been done, not a payment to ensure that it continues. I appreciate your extra effort, is what I'm saying.

Universities rely on legacies, and I won't pretend that they don't. But if an admissions officers is personally accepting graft to admit students in the stead of otherwise qualified students, they should be fired. I'd be very surprised if you disagreed with that position.

There may be examples of elitism all over the place, but I don't see that excusing a 20 something hostess in Houston palming $20 in order to seat somebody in front of people who have been waiting for 45 minutes. Which is where we began.

[NYC Mike]

Its amusing how $20 to a bartender is a reprehensible "bribe" but a few $100k to guarantee Junior gets into Harvard despite falling too far from the tree is called an endowment and is "ok".

That xmas envelope effects future performance, regardless of what its called or what the intention was you will recieve better treatment as a result of it over and above a member who did not give one.

-Mike

[Dignan]

Its amusing how $20 to a bartender is a reprehensible "bribe" but a few $100k to guarantee Junior gets into Harvard despite falling too far from the tree is called an endowment and is "ok".

That xmas envelope effects future performance, regardless of what its called or what the intention was you will recieve better treatment as a result of it over and above a member who did not give one.

-Mike

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As I've said, I overtip bartenders.

The only thing I can point out that is obvious is that if the few $100k went to the admissions officer rather than the institution, you'd have a problem with that analogy. Hyperbole in analogy usually doesn't stand close scrutiny.

Every tip ever given should be intended to have an affect on future behaviour, unless you have no intention of ever returning. No tip at all would have an affect on future behavior, in a service setting. Does that now extend to M D's?

But "tips" are after the fact payments. If you approach an M D', after s/he sat you and gave you a great table, and you said, here, dude, here's a $20, you know, to thank you for the effort and for having gone out of your way to make sure this was a good time, and the next time he saw you you got treated well, I have no problem with that. We've all been in those situations, and we probably overtipped on our checks as a result. Isn't that the way it should go?

[Dignan]

We've already had this one.

Here's another: bribe. Main Entry: 1bribe

Pronunciation: 'brIb

Function: noun

Etymology: Middle English, something stolen, from Middle French, bread given to a beggar

1 : money or favor given or promised in order to influence the judgment or conduct of a person in a position of trust

2 : something that serves to induce or influence

Here's another one. NOUN: 1. Something, such as money or a favor, offered or given to a person in a position of trust to influence that person's views or conduct. 2. Something serving to influence or persuade.

VERB: Inflected forms: bribed, brib·ing, bribes

TRANSITIVE VERB: To give, offer, or promise a bribe to.

INTRANSITIVE VERB: To give, offer, or promise bribes.

ETYMOLOGY: Middle English, from Old French, piece of bread given as alms.

OTHER FORMS: briba·ble —ADJECTIVE

briber —NOUN

And the OED:Bribe.

• verb dishonestly persuade (someone) to act in one’s favour by paying them or giving other inducement.

• noun an inducement offered in an attempt to bribe.

— DERIVATIVES bribery noun.

— ORIGIN originally in the sense rob, extort, later money extorted or demanded: from Old French briber, brimber ‘beg’.

They all trace it to Old French, with much the same meaning.