Bribes to the Maitre D'

[ingridsf]

I did read the tipping thread and it's very relevant to this discussion.

I view what is commonly regarded as a tip as a non-negotiable charge. It's 20%. Service can be whatever it is, doesn't matter. Because this is how a person is being compensated, and I would not want every saint, average joe, and yahoo in my work-life each getting to set my terms each and every time. Also, many diners' complaints are not under the service staffs' control but only the servers are vulnerable to being "docked."

If I'm dissatisfied with the service, I communicate with the management.

If I'm thrilled, I say so to the server and the management and add to the tip.

Most people I know (we're not in the industry) think this is crazy. But I don't view the "tip" as a gratuity. Service is an integral part of dining out; it should be paid for fairly and consistently.

Many people -- not my friends -- are shockingly cheap. I'n not talking 15%. I mean thinking 10% is, "Too much for what? Bringing me a steak?" I think tipping encourages that mentality. Sad but it's been my experience. Generous people will always be generous no matter what the system is officially.

Cheap people need more clearly defined and enforced service charges.

***

annecros explained upthread about seating different-sized parties. Thank you, yes, I was aware that, hee, size matters.

***

The university President was arrested amidst scandal after I graduated. "By thy queue etiquette shall thee be known...."

[rich]

I did read the tipping thread and it's very relevant to this discussion. 

I view what is commonly regarded as a tip as a non-negotiable charge.  It's 20%.  Service can be whatever it is, doesn't matter.  Because this is how a person is being compensated, and I would not want every saint, average joe, and yahoo in my work-life each getting to set my terms each and every time.  Also, many diners' complaints are not under the service staffs' control but only the servers are vulnerable to being "docked." 

If I'm dissatisfied with the service, I communicate with the management.

If I'm thrilled, I say so to the server and the management and add to the tip. 

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Ingrid, from reading the above, you agree with Anne and me. You have a slightly different take (20% guarantee), but you do add money for top service. Yet, the study (as you read in the tipping thread) stated that's not the case.

[ingridsf]

Ingrid, from reading the above, you agree with Anne and me. You have a slightly different take (20% guarantee), but you do add money for top service. Yet, the study (as you read in the tipping thread) stated that's not the case.

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I had completely forotten about the study. The thing that just bugs me no end is the idea that paying for service is fundamentally optional. The issue of what I would consider a genuine "gratuity" is a whole other thing. And not something I have any problem with.

Getting back to this thread, and the article that launched it. I've been stuck on the particulars, which were in fact not even about a Maitre D' (who as annecross explained works long hours, etc.), but a hostess, who according to the author, took a bribe to seat others ahead of his party. A simple quid pro quo, some say.

Money talks and she listened.

But doesn't this tacitly encourage just the kind of behavior that drives service staff crazy? Customers who think money can excuse any kind of behavior. (Oops, that might not be a problem to some. )

I guess the thing is, these seem like those hidden fees that pop up when I'm choosing a cell phone service provider. Being expected to come up with more money on the spot simply so I won't get knocked down on a list leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Sure, I don't have to do it, and I don't have to be there. But I'm a good customer and this kind of practice is a turn-off. It seems like a system that's ripe for small short-term gains for individuals versus building a loyal customer base.

Edited April 17, 2006 by ingridsf (log)

[rich]

Getting back to this thread, and the article that launched it.  I've been stuck on the particulars, which were in fact not even about a Maitre D' (who as annecross explained works long hours, etc.), but a hostess, who according to the author, took a bribe to seat others ahead of his party. A simple quid pro quo, some say.

Money talks and she listened.

But doesn't this tacitly encourage just the kind of behavior that drives service staff crazy?  Customers who think money can excuse any kind of behavior.  (Oops, that might not be a problem to some.  )

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I think this thread immediately went beyond the scope of the particular article, but looked at the tipping/bribing issue in general. As with most subjects, there are areas of gray that lead to meaningful debates and discussion.

However, if the focus is simply on the hostess who took money to seat one party ahead of others who had reservations, then I would totally agree that's wrong. I wouldn't go as far as saying it's immoral, but it certainly flys in the face of fairness and respect.

Edited April 17, 2006 by rich (log)

[Daniel]

So people who give money to colleges so there kids are ensured of getting in are actually bribing the University?  I thought that was called a "donation"...

And are all those envelopes people give out on Christmas not really presents.  They are bribes?  Get out of here.  I am not expecting service, I just feel obligated to pay people because its Christmas.. I thought I had a Santa complex..

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I'll leave aside the University situation, because that has more to do with legacy and prior relationships. No, I guess I won't leave it aside because it dove tails in to the envelopes at Xmas idea if I understand what you mean by that -- for the mailperson, the doorperson, etc? Correct me if I'm wrong.

But those are different. I wouldn't call those bribes, and I think we can show why they are not, though I may not be able to adequately distinguish them for your purposes.

They are part of an ongoing relationship between the parties. If I decide to give a Xmas tip to the doorpeople of my building, I don't really gain anything but goodwill. If I don't, and the doorperson doesn't do their otherwise assigned duties when it comes to me, then they should be fired. What do I gain except for a better, more positive relationship, which was already defined before I did it?

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For me.. I bribe or tip my mailman so he will deliver my mail to me early in the day.. If I get a new mailman, one who has not been properly taken care of, I get mail at 3 o'clock.. Thus making the days checks count for the following day.. Friday, is especially big for me..

If I dont tip doormen, I cant do certain things that I am now allowed to do.. Move certain things in and out of the building on days where I am not supposed to.. There are whole hosts of special treatment one could receive.. They sign for packages they normally wouldnt.. Then there are also things they do out of kindness, but the its naive to think these people are your true friends.. From going into my apartment to feed pets, hailing taxis, leaving my car out front to be parked by them, and the list goes on. Again, we have a great relationship, but money certainly aint hurting it..

Garbage men, they will throw out your trash bags.. But what about that tire, or the door, or the big box of crap that they dont feel like picking up.. Go out to the curb and ask them kindly.. Or you can go out with a 20 and ask them kindly.. The difference is amazing..

The sky cabs at the airport.. There use to be a way to fly first class for free.. It involved tipping the skycap.. Now though, when my luggage is over 50 lbs, instead of paying the 50-100 dollar penalty, I just throw the skycap a 10.. All of a sudden that luggage isnt so heavy..

The thing is, I am a nice guy.. I have real relationships based on some sort of friendship and certainly mutual respect.. But to think that someone whose job it is to service you, is there for the love of there job, and money isnt an issue, is naive.. Although, you might be going to the club to relax, the people helping you there are working.. And the point of working is to make money..

[ingridsf]

I believe the title of the tipping thread was, "Per Se ends tipping in favor of service charge, New York Post, New York Times coverage."

The situation in this thread's article has been the basis for most of my comments. I was surprised there was such heated debate but see now how different were the places folks may have been starting from.

Edited April 17, 2006 by ingridsf (log)

[rich]

I believe the title of the tipping thread was, "Per Se ends tipping in favor of service charge, New York Post, New York Times coverage."

The situation in this thread's article has been the basis for most of my comments.  I was surprised there was such heated debate but see now how different were the places folks may have been starting from.

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Yes, you're correct. I believe the discussion then evolved into tipping in general and that's how the debate about quality of service vs. gratuity started.

[annecros]

I believe the title of the tipping thread was, "Per Se ends tipping in favor of service charge, New York Post, New York Times coverage."

The situation in this thread's article has been the basis for most of my comments.  I was surprised there was such heated debate but see now how different were the places folks may have been starting from.

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Yes, you're correct. I believe the discussion then evolved into tipping in general and that's how the debate about quality of service vs. gratuity started.

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I would still like to understand how a research person objectified something as subjective as "good service" in order to establish a baseline for his study.

Any server that has more than one table in their section can explain to you that each and every table has a subjective notion of what "good service" is or is not.

I am struggling with this sort of thing right now with a proposal I am drafting for some retail produce business. The contract people evaluatiing the proposal are insisting upon placing objective standards upon produce. Anyone who has ever purchased produce, I think, understands that it is a very subjective activitiy.

Do you want a banana that is green, just showing color, yellow and mellow, or mushy? Same thing with service in a restaurant. Do you want to drink a bottle of wine before the appys, or just a cocktail? Do you want time between appy and entree for another cocktail, or do you want the entree slammed down on the table as soon as you finished the last bite of the salad? Do you want time to take a smoke break between courses? There are these peppers from a local grower that are magnificent, boxy shaped with thick walls, but more expensive than peppers that ya just chop up and toss into the pan to flavor the dish and are all funky shaped. If you are making stuffed peppers, the answer is easy. If not, do you want to pay the extra? I have to sell the more expensive boxy peppers. I think I have an angle on it though.

Entirely subjective. Difficult to measure.

I would find the data interesting.

And I consider the 20% baseline mentioned earlier as entirely voluntary. I know that my customers in the past generally considered it so. I would guess that if you went into a restaurant and consistently tipped 20% regardless, you would be treated as a great customer and the servers would be falling all over themselves to wait on you.

Bribe, gratuity, grease or tip?

[rich]

And I consider the 20% baseline mentioned earlier as entirely voluntary. I know that my customers in the past generally considered it so. I would guess that if you went into a restaurant and consistently tipped 20% regardless, you would be treated as a great customer and the servers would be falling all over themselves to wait on you.

Bribe, gratuity, grease or tip?

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I never read the study, so I can't help on how he arrived at his conclusions. From what I remember of the discussion, a lot of focus was paid to interviewing customers upon leaving a restaurant. I didn't believe those would accurate considering people often say things they think the interviewer wants to hear - see political exit polling.

The discussion then got into tip pooling, which was what Per Se is doing. That's where the heated discussion started - based on the same pay for all and the better waiters getting the same share as the mediocre ones.

As far as the above, it could be considered any of the choices you listed. But if they were pooling their tips, it wouldn't matter and the staff wouldn't care who got the table.

[rockandroller]

What a great thread. I just wanted to point out that all of you should move here to the midwest, where we don't even HAVE MDs or captains in 99.9% of our restaurants. I can't think of one place I've been in Cleveland that has an actual MD or captain as opposed to your regular old hostess stand. At the nicer places, the hostess stand is staffed by someone older who has been in the business a bit longer, but here, greasing is something you'd almost never have to do because the only place there are insane wait times are, unfortunately, the chain restaurants. Cheesecake Factory has been open for over a year on one side of town and I hear they still have a 2 hour wait for dinner on a weekend, over an hour on a weeknight. Crazy! And the teenagers staffing the hostess stand would look at you like you had 3 heads if you offered them money to move you ahead. They'd either not know what to do with it or would be afraid to take it as the corporate structure in those chain restaurants can be pretty unforgiving and there are multiple managers with eyes in the back of their heads.

I know greasing can make it better and I don't do it, not because of a morality factor but because I can usually barely afford the dinner out, I can't go tipping (or bribing, whatever you prefer) everyone in sight on top of it. I just experienced this kind of snubbing in DC where there was a lovely area in the front where all the tables were occupied and lots of lovely people sipping wine & eating. We were told by the hotel concierge that this place was "very, very casual" and of course DC casual and Cleveland casual turned out to be different things. My dining companion (my boss) had on jeans and a nice, white button down and I had on a designer T-shirt, black pants and comfy shoes and we were taken into the back room - the only people there during our entire meal except a (God forbid) family of 4 that came in midway through the meal.

Did I mind? No. If I wanted to, I'd have asked to be moved and I know they'd have accommodated me, but as it was I was fine with the quiet and the dedicated attention of our very nice and attentive server.

If I lived in a place and/or had the money to regularly frequent places nice enough to have an MD and I thought it helped, I might do it for either a special occasion or particular circumstances, as was mentioned earlier ala theater or other engagement, people dying of starvation or exhaustion in my party, etc. But even if I were rich and it were the regular custom, I wouldn't do it, because I know I'll get a perfectly nice dining experience as a regular jill, so whybotha. If I don't, I ask nicely for whatever to be done that would rectify the situation, and if that doesn't happen, I don't return and send a complaint letter, which thankfully doesn't happen all that often.

[ingridsf]

And I consider the 20% baseline mentioned earlier as entirely voluntary. I know that my customers in the past generally considered it so. I would guess that if you went into a restaurant and consistently tipped 20% regardless, you would be treated as a great customer and the servers would be falling all over themselves to wait on you.

Bribe, gratuity, grease or tip?

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Actually, none of the above. It would be "wages." I don't think customers should have that much power. People who do a job should get paid for it. Every single time they perform their job functions, regardless of whether a customer judges they were good or bad on some purely subjective scale.

Because even on my worst day on the job, I still get paid.

My experience (not scientific) is that the people who go over 20% would still do so, even if the baseline service was included.

Believe me, I know my attitude isn't the norm!

[annecros]

And I consider the 20% baseline mentioned earlier as entirely voluntary. I know that my customers in the past generally considered it so. I would guess that if you went into a restaurant and consistently tipped 20% regardless, you would be treated as a great customer and the servers would be falling all over themselves to wait on you.

Bribe, gratuity, grease or tip?

←

Actually, none of the above. It would be "wages." I don't think customers should have that much power. People who do a job should get paid for it. Every single time they perform their job functions, regardless of whether a customer judges they were good or bad on some purely subjective scale.

Because even on my worst day on the job, I still get paid.

My experience (not scientific) is that the people who go over 20% would still do so, even if the baseline service was included.

Believe me, I know my attitude isn't the norm!

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Well, it is good that you understand that it is not the norm, because if you tip 20 per regardless, you have been bagged, tagged and marked. No doubt about it. All it takes is one server to say, "Wow, they got crummy service and STILL left 20%!" in a screechy voice. And, sadly, some servers cannot resist.

After that, you are no longer an anony face in the crowd. You will be subjected to good service, because if you do 20 for bad, I mean hey! Seat them in my section!

So funny, the way the world rolls around.

[ingridsf]

Well, it is good that you understand that it is not the norm, because if you tip 20 per regardless, you have been bagged, tagged and marked. No doubt about it. All it takes is one server to say, "Wow, they got crummy service and STILL left 20%!" in a screechy voice. And, sadly, some servers cannot resist.

After that, you are no longer an anony face in the crowd. You will be subjected to good service, because if you do 20 for bad, I mean hey! Seat them in my section!

So funny, the way the world rolls around.

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Just keep in mind I'm equally serious about bringing service problems to the attention of the manager. Sometimes on the spot, sometimes later.

Also, the server may not have been the best but I don't like the idea of witholding money from the other workers depending on the tip who may have done a fine but less visible job.

It's a funny world, all right.

[Pan]

[...]Also, what are people's opinions about places where an automatic gratuity is added to the bill?

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I think that's fine.

Since this is "paid" in a sense before the meal (actual dollar amount determined from bill), does anyone have a problem with it? I know it's collected after the meal, but that's irrelevent because you know about it before you order or possibly prior to visiting the resto.

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But to me, that's the point: It's an upfront charge, charged equally (by percentage) to all patrons. I can't see a reason to argue that it's unfair, unless you want to be able to punish poor service with a lower tip, and I doubt that really bad service is likely at Per Se.

The reason I ask is several posts referred to the "tip" being given after the meal as a reward for good service and a "bribe" be given before the service occurs. Using Per Se as an example, since they add 22 percent to the bill, you don't have that option with an automatic charge. Sure you can add to the tip and slip someone some money, but the choice of giving less is not an option. The same holds true for many restaurants that add the gratuity (usually 18 percent) with parties of six or more.[...]

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The only problem I have with service charges is that, supposing the service charge is 15%, that can make it difficult to calculate the 20%+ tip I might have otherwise given, if left to my own devices. I'm not always so good at subtracting 15% (and is that before or after tax?) by just calculating in my head. But in principle, I have no problem with it and understand the reason for it.

[Dignan]

Well, it is good that you understand that it is not the norm, because if you tip 20 per regardless, you have been bagged, tagged and marked. No doubt about it. All it takes is one server to say, "Wow, they got crummy service and STILL left 20%!" in a screechy voice. And, sadly, some servers cannot resist.

After that, you are no longer an anony face in the crowd. You will be subjected to good service, because if you do 20 for bad, I mean hey! Seat them in my section!

So funny, the way the world rolls around.

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Just keep in mind I'm equally serious about bringing service problems to the attention of the manager. Sometimes on the spot, sometimes later.

Also, the server may not have been the best but I don't like the idea of witholding money from the other workers depending on the tip who may have done a fine but less visible job.

It's a funny world, all right.

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There's only one time I can remember purposely stiffing a waiter. We saw him twice: gave us menus and took a drink order, brought us our drinks and took our dinner order. We never saw him again. Somebody else brought our food, and I even had to ask someone else for our check. I'm a pretty easy going guy but I was pretty peeved. I wrote $0.00 on the charge slip, sought out the busser and tipped him, and then tipped the bartender. And then never went back. They were open for about six months.

So you can tip and stiff at the same time.

Edited April 18, 2006 by Dignan (log)

[rich]

So you can tip and stiff at the same time.

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Not if the gratuity is included.

[ingridsf]

Not if the gratuity is included.

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Just pointing out I'm not in favor of including the "gratuity." That's whatever someone chooses to put on top of the 20 percent service charge put on everyone's bill. Because however you judge the quality of it, you got served.

Hee.

[rich]

Someone just bribed me not to post on eGullet anymore - they said the entire membership used their influence to assist.

I accepted. Who can turn down a guaranteed reservation at the Times Square Olive Garden?

[annecros]

Someone just bribed me not to post on eGullet anymore - they said the entire membership used their influence to assist.

I accepted. Who can turn down a guaranteed reservation at the Times Square Olive Garden?

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Ahem.

I am a donor, and I may be able to hook you up with a Macaroni Grill in your area, should you consider posting further. I have made certain inquiries. Seriously.

Good food there at the Macaroni Grill.

All depends.

You must keep posting.

And, I am a donor.

And by the way, the gates of heaven are composed entirely of the spun sugar that the skillfull carny lifts out of the magic bin onto the paper cone when you are five years old at the fair. At least, that is what I would like to think. And all of heaven smells of the fresh spun sugar. Wonderful fair food.

Edited April 19, 2006 by annecros (log)

[Dignan]

So you can tip and stiff at the same time.

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Not if the gratuity is included.

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If the service were sufficiently poor, and I put it that way because it would have to be pretty bad to stir me this way, have a problem insisting that a mandatory tip percentage be reduced?

[raymmmondo]

Well, first of all, I am surprised that there's been so much dissection of the words; the title of this thread is "*Bribes* [emphasis added] to the Maitre D', Have you made them? Have you taken them..."

So it was supposed to be about *bribing* -- presumably for the likes of a good table & extra special service.

What I'd like to know about is if anybody here gives "thank yous" to the MD for having had a lovely evening, with attention paid to them that wasn't expected, etc.

Cheers!

[maher]

im amazed that people are so shocked by this practice and yet take it perfectly in stride that a certain level of donation to the political party in power at the time got you an invite to a white house dinner, and another even a night in the Lincoln bedroom!!

I have pretipped/bribed at a number of places, across the US and europe, and while sometimes it did not result in a massive increase in the level of service (tough to tell in a place you are not a regular at on the best of days) i have never had my tip turned down. It is a fat of life that if you show up at a concert the day of you have to buy tickets at a price higher than the people who booked in advance, and you have to do the same at restaurants, clubs, even ballparks. on one occassion, even on a flight.

[prasantrin]

im amazed that people are so shocked by this practice and yet take it perfectly in stride that a certain level of donation to the political party in power at the time got you an invite to a white house dinner, and another even a night in the Lincoln bedroom!!

Who here has claimed to take that kind of political donation in stride? I, personally, find it to be even more disgusting than greasing.

I have pretipped/bribed at a number of places, across the US and europe, and while sometimes it did not result in a massive increase in the level of service (tough to tell in a place you are not a regular at on the best of days)

Can you be more specific about your experiences in Europe? Most people participating in this discussion are US-based, but I'm also interested in how greasing works in Europe--does it work better in some countries than in others? Does it result in better service/faster seating times/etc? I would guess that in many European countries, it's less effective than it is in the US.

[Simon_S]

I would guess that in many European countries, it's less effective than it is in the US.

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I would guess the same, although I have no hard and fast reasons for thinking this.

Europe (historically at least) does not have the tipping culture common in the US. Judging by the responses in this thread, "greasing" the MD seems to be viewed by many as an extension of this culture, so it stands to reason that it would be less prevalent over here. There's also the whole question of restaurant staff getting paid reasonable wages, not being as dependent on tips and so less inclined to respond to payment for good service, but I think I'll side-step that one!

Of course, another notable difference is that, in my experience at least, people don't really wait for tables at restaurants, certainly not at the higher end. Usually, there isn't a bar or indeed any other area where you *could* wait, so this may be part of it. Restaurants where there might be a line for tables are generally more mainstream eat-and-run type places, or, dare I say, American-themed restaurants such as TGI or the like. Such restaurants don't usually have what I would call a "Maitre D'". I doubt very much that tipping the girl/guy out front who hands you the menus and tries to keep things under control would get you very far, but I may be wrong.

Of course, a far more European approach in my experience is to try to "sweet-talk" the person in question, without any money changing hands. That's a far more challenging exercise, but even more rewarding when it works!

Si

[maher]

i guess it all depends on how high end/popular the restaurant is. The only place i have had trouble is where you give the maitre'd an impossible task. if you walk into a place with 8 tables at peak times on saturday night, there is literally nothing he/she can do.

i have found though that by targeting slightly off times... pre seven pm, post nine thirty, or lunchtime, there is always room to get in. I sometimes couple this with not just a tip but also a promise not to linger, especially if i am coming in for an early dinner. this gives them a lot more leeway to slot you in.

obviously this works better in some countries than others. at the risk of stereotyping, it works better with an older male maitre than a younger female one.

the times it has not succeeded in getting me a table i have ended up with the maitre

business card and phone no, and that is always helpful, because you can always call when you are back in that town and say im here from x to y days when can you slot me in.

the times i dont know how effective it has been are when i have been sent to the bar to cool my heels, and gotten a table an hour or more later. in these cases i suspect just showing up dressed well and positive would have given the same result.

one thing that i have certainly found is that in most cases if you look like you know what you are doing, people at these high end establishments will try their best not to embarass you, which mostly means you get what you want.