Bribes to the Maitre D'

[Pan]

[...]But "tips" are after the fact payments.  If you approach an M D', after s/he sat you and gave you a great table, and you said, here, dude, here's a $20, you know, to thank you for the effort and for having gone out of your way to make sure this was a good time, and the next time he saw you you got treated well, I have no problem with that.  We've all been in those situations, and we probably overtipped on our checks as a result.  Isn't that the way it should go?

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Yep. We are in agreement.

By the way, universities considering donations as one factor in admissions is understandable, but for them to let that cause them to take in unqualified applicants or, worse yet, pressure faculty to consider those donations when grading the students, would be extremely corrupt and reprehensible.

[Pan]

[...]Heck, churches and synagogues charge for prime seating these days.[...]

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Believe me when I tell you that there are some that don't.

[Pan]

Let's give one more example. A majority of people "contribute" to a political candidate based on the campaign promises of a candidate. This is done before the individual is elected. (Some even give to both party's candidates to play it safe - and maybe get that traffic light installed on your corner). Do you think the candidates are "bribing" us with their promises in order to get the contribution?

What happens after the person is elected? You decide.[...]

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We get into a danger zone for eG Forums when we start to have political arguments about the corruption in the political system. Suffice it to say that many people are very angry about just the kind of corruption and legalized bribery you are passing off as normal and acceptable.

Sorry for posting so many times in a row; I haven't been able to spend much time online lately. This will be my last post in this thread for now. Good holiday wishes to all who are celebrating or having time off from work.

[Kris]

This has been a very interesting and enlightening thread.

I live in NYC and I guess I don't frequent the hip and trendy places because I've never "greased" a MD or host/ess. It just never occurred to me that it's something I needed to do.

[annecros]

But, sliding the maitre d' some lettuce is tipping, is customary in certain circumstances.

Just because a perjorative term was used in the initial post for the practice, does not make it not tipping. Just by calling it a bribe, makes it no less a "gratuity."

Number One: It is voluntary. If you find tipping the captain offensive, then don't do it.

Number Two: It is appropriate according to various social situations and conditions.

Number Three: Call it a nasty name all you like, but the tip does not appear to be in danger of becoming extinct.

As far as etymology is concerned:

Another possible source for this term is a concept from Judaism that it is a chiyuv (obligation) for a seller to "tip the scales" in favor of the customer. The Torah says, "Nosen lo girumov (Give to him a tip)." For example, if your customer has asked for three pounds of onions, you should measure out the three pounds plus one extra onion, tipping the scale in his favor [2].

Now, I will return to lurk for a time.

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Sorry to drag you back out of lurking but maybe you'll be the one to answer my upthread questions.

So the hostess in the article who you said was tipped, not bribed, for a table, would she be expected to add $20 to the tip-pool, if the restaurant uses that system? Would she would be held to the same standards as a server who is tipped via a credit card? Would the bus-person who cleared the table receive a share? My impression from the responses on this thread is that what has been called bribing is much more secretive and that workers don't treat this income as they do wages and tips that come after service.

IF that's the case, I don't see how it's being practiced ethically. No matter what it's called. No matter how many people do it.

Also, what's the difference in principle between a salesperson naming his/her "best price" to a customer on a coveted, limited-basis item, that's on top of the purchase price, and then pocketing the difference? "Look, keep this between you and me, but I'll give you $xx if you put my name first on the list for the Toyota hybrid." Again, maybe I'm reeaaally naive and this happens all the time. Do you think the business owner would have a hands-off attitude about it? Not the preferential treatment, but the unregulated pocketing by the employee.

Um, your Torah source reads to me like the restaurant hostess would be discounting the price of the table, not charging extra.

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OK, I'll take the bait. Let's see if you can reel me in and land me.

In a perfect world, everybody would make exactly the same amount of money, do exactly the same amount of work, and the Captain would keep track of where you were sitting the last six times you visited the restaurant so that you would not get the good table every time and do your proper penance at the table by the restrooms in order to "pay" for that good table you got a month ago.

In a perfect world, servers would work for minimum wage, and restaurant owners would make enough money to pay then minimum wage, and minimum wage would be enough to pay for day care, groceries and books and everything would be la-de-da happy in restaurant land.

In a perfect world, every penny tipped in every restaurant anywhere in the world would be divided evenly over the entire staff.

The only reason the best servers are out there are serving, and make it up the food chain to captain, is strictly because of the tips. It is not the sore feet, bad back, sometimes abusive customer, going home at 3 AM after you just got done polishing silverware minimum wage after you purchased your own uniform "regular" part of the job.

Comparing these low income people, and the Captain is not making a whole heck of a lot more than most of the staff and is honestly not tipped as often (though he does much more ancillary work for the restaurant) to coporate graft is a bit outrageous. Don't you think? I don't begrudge a hardworking person a $20.

Umm, did I not demonstrate, via OUTSIDE sources (not the results of my personal research, but that done by travel advisors) that tipping the MD is appropriate depending upon the circumstances and customary practice in those circumstances?

Did I also not demonstrate that tipping ANYONE is a purely voluntary action? If you don't believe in it, don't do it. But, I am not understanding how you might manage to enforce your own restraint upon others. It is a free country, and tipping the captain is not illegal, no matter how many times you call it a bribe. And, once again, it is a voluntary practice.

The torah reference came from Wikki, not myself. I do, however, receive a baker's dozen of bagels when I visit my favorite shop every two to three weeks. I am polite, smile, and always drop the change in the tip cup. They are nice people. Even the owner, who told me how nice it was to see me last week, and dropped me a Baker's Dozen and one more.

[ingridsf]

There's a problem here of communication, then. If paying extra for a particular table or being seated ahead of someone else is just like tipping after service, and the staff are treating this money in about the same way, it's odd that so many customers have so little understanding of it. Even throughout this thread, there's a considerable diversity of opinion among people who haven't said a negative word about tipping after service.

And I don't think the reason is cheapness or ignorance about low-income jobs. It's that the ordinary understanding of what tipping is, is that it's after service.

I don't begrudge a hardworking person $20 either. I asked if one hardworking person -- the hostess -- was obligated to share her $20 like another hardworking person -- the server -- was. I asked because my friend who was a server complained the hostesses got a cut of what she made but not vice versa.

[rich]

Let's give one more example. A majority of people "contribute" to a political candidate based on the campaign promises of a candidate. This is done before the individual is elected. (Some even give to both party's candidates to play it safe - and maybe get that traffic light installed on your corner). Do you think the candidates are "bribing" us with their promises in order to get the contribution?

What happens after the person is elected? You decide.[...]

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We get into a danger zone for eG Forums when we start to have political arguments about the corruption in the political system. Suffice it to say that many people are very angry about just the kind of corruption and legalized bribery you are passing off as normal and acceptable.

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One thing I hate and find immoral is being misquoted when the statement is right there in public. I never said I find the system of political contributions acceptable. Normal, unfortunately yes. (In fact, I refuse to check off that $1 box on my income tax because I dislike the "contribution" sytem so much.) If you bothered to post the rest of my statement (from the prior post, which was linked with "Let's give one more example..."), I was saying tipping a host or hostess for a special service or request is better than giving money to politicians, which I do consider a bribe because their asking for your vote and money based on campaign promises. Hence the use of "you decide" at the end and the word contribute in quotes in the beginning - an obvious way of making that point.

If you're going to use my quote to make a comment, please don't take statements out of context to make a point - as a former journalist I believe that's about as immoral as one can get. And this from an eGullet official.

This has been an interesting and thought provoking thread - one of the best in recent memory and no one (up to this point) has made attacks or used statements in a derisive manner. We have all been a funny, sarcastic and serious, let's try to keep it that way.

[annecros]

There's a problem here of communication, then.  If paying extra for a particular table or being seated ahead of someone else is just like tipping after service, and the staff are treating this money in about the same way, it's odd that so many customers have so little understanding of it.  Even throughout this thread, there's a considerable diversity of opinion among people who haven't said a negative word about tipping after service.

And I don't think the reason is cheapness or ignorance about low-income jobs.  It's that the ordinary understanding of what tipping is, is that it's after service. 

I don't begrudge a hardworking person $20 either.  I asked if one hardworking person -- the hostess -- was obligated to share her $20 like another hardworking person -- the server -- was.  I asked because my friend who was a server complained the hostesses got a cut of what she made but not vice versa.

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Generally, the host or hostess does not do the work of a Captain or MD. Two completely different animals.

The MD or Captain spends all day at the business, takes the reservations personally and assists the party with planning if it is a special evening, knows the names and preferences of regulars or club members or resort guests. Trains the wait staff, runs the floor all night, and generally is paid somewhere around 30k in salary, maybe more depending upon the establishment and the local economy. They generally have about 10 years in the front of the house under their belts, and are responsible for all operations in the front of the house, including the wait staff.

The host or hostess generally is a pregnant server, or a person who wants to be a server who is too young to serve liquor, or maybe a server that needs a few more hours and is filling in as host. They arrive right before the dinner rush, try to keep track of open tables, try not to double seat servers, don't do sidework, and leave as soon as the dinner rush is over. They make minimum wage plus about a buck. They are directly supervised by a manager. They support the wait staff much more in the same manner as the busboy supports the wait staff. Trust me, I have seen individual servers tip a busboy or host out of pocket personally to get them to do their salt and peppers or polish their silverware for them so they can get out at the end of the night quicker. There are even some cases of tipping out for preferential treatment from the busboy or hostess directly, but the other servers usually manage to suss this situation out pretty quick, and handle it amongst themselves. Other servers frown upon this particular practice, as sections and seatings are territories that are well protected.

Tip share, in my experience, is generally figured upon sales, though there are some exceptions. Therefore, it may cost the server more in tip share to wait a particular table than they earned in tips off of it, or conversely if they have a good night, they tip out a much lower percentage of tips than they actually pocketed, because the customers tipped better than the standard 15% (or whatever) of sales that the server is expected to tip into tip share.

I know, it can be very confusing for the customer.

[MarketStEl]

The more I read posts like Anne's immediately above, the more I wonder why we don't just pay servers, hosts and maîtres d' a decent, living wage and just raise the prices by 18-20 percent.

Edited to add: This has been a fascinating discussion. The practice being discussed here sort of reminds me of that Orwellian phrase, "some are more equal than others."

Edited April 16, 2006 by MarketStEl (log)

[Sneakeater]

The more I read posts like Anne's immediately above, the more I wonder why we don't just pay servers, hosts and maîtres d' a decent, living wage and just raise the prices by 18-20 percent.

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IF ONLY.

[annecros]

The more I read posts like Anne's immediately above, the more I wonder why we don't just pay servers, hosts and maîtres d' a decent, living wage and just raise the prices by 18-20 percent.

Edited to add: This has been a fascinating discussion.  The practice being discussed here sort of reminds me of that Orwellian phrase, "some are more equal than others."

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Well, I know that seems like a simple solution, but if you look at it closely, it would bring the prices up 40 to 50 percent, at least. Possibly even more.

Restaurants run on a slim margin as it is. You would have additional administrative costs to cover, then there is the additional FICA and unemployment taxes that would have to be covered, then you would have to leave enough for it to be worth the server's time to make the paycheck competitive with what a tipped server is earning at another establishment. Then there are the bartenders and kitchen help. I didn't even get into that can of worms. The best thing about being a server, honestly, is going home at the end of a hard night with cash in your pocket. It really is a good job for some people, in some circumstances.

On top of it all, tipping is so ingrained in the culture, it would happen anyway. Some will tip, others won't.

I got out of the food service industry about 20 years ago, but still have close relatives involved at several levels. And honestly, it isn't that different from the complexities in the coporate world that I "escaped" too. In fact, the dog eat dog environment in a typical busy office is just as complex concerning work relationships, bonuses, raises, and who gets the nicer work area or computer.

[Dignan]

The more I read posts like Anne's immediately above, the more I wonder why we don't just pay servers, hosts and maîtres d' a decent, living wage and just raise the prices by 18-20 percent.

And if we did, they no longer would palm a twenty to seat a new arrival in front of other diners who have been waiting patiently?

[FabulousFoodBabe]

The more I read posts like Anne's immediately above, the more I wonder why we don't just pay servers, hosts and maîtres d' a decent, living wage and just raise the prices by 18-20 percent.

And if we did, they no longer would palm a twenty to seat a new arrival in front of other diners who have been waiting patiently?

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I think most of us reading this thread have figured something out: It's really not about getting a better table, or feeling/believing you've done something to get preferential treatment. It's about something completely different. Like, does anyone really need that big boat, that Porsche, that rent-a-date? Nope. Does the maitre d' really need to be handed $50 to take good care of you that night? Of course not! Another person has a really hilarious term for it and I won't post it here, but I hope s/he will.

[Mike Hunt]

In addition to being a tip driven culture, is the practice of the discretionary charge added to the bill (normally 8-12%) prevalent in the US ?

This is endemic in the UK where the charge is added and the credit slip left open for you to amend accordingly (normally upwards) so in effect you're tipping twice.

Not so much of a problem now with the advent of chip & pin cards but still an insidious practice nontheless.

The way forward ? Don't tip for anything.

[prasantrin]

The more I read posts like Anne's immediately above, the more I wonder why we don't just pay servers, hosts and maîtres d' a decent, living wage and just raise the prices by 18-20 percent.

Edited to add: This has been a fascinating discussion.  The practice being discussed here sort of reminds me of that Orwellian phrase, "some are more equal than others."

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Well, I know that seems like a simple solution, but if you look at it closely, it would bring the prices up 40 to 50 percent, at least. Possibly even more.

While not a "living wage", restaurants in many other countries pay at least minimum wage, and have prices that are about the same (sometimes more, sometimes less) than in the US. Canadian servers get at least minimum wage plus tips, while Japanese servers make at least minimum (usually Y100-200 more) and don't get tips at all.

On top of it all, tipping is so ingrained in the culture, it would happen anyway. Some will tip, others won't.

True enough. Even when I'm in non-tipping countries, I feel obligated to tip. Being in Japan is a blessing, because one never tips, but whenever I have a facial, massage, or haircut, I feel a little guilty for not tipping. And when I was in the Philippines recently, I often tipped (even on top of service charges) even though most Filipinos don't.

Because tipping is so culturally-based, I do wish more people outside the US would speak up. Not so much on tipping, but on greasing, which I still insist are two different things.

[Pan]

Let's give one more example. A majority of people "contribute" to a political candidate based on the campaign promises of a candidate. This is done before the individual is elected. (Some even give to both party's candidates to play it safe - and maybe get that traffic light installed on your corner). Do you think the candidates are "bribing" us with their promises in order to get the contribution?

What happens after the person is elected? You decide.[...]

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We get into a danger zone for eG Forums when we start to have political arguments about the corruption in the political system. Suffice it to say that many people are very angry about just the kind of corruption and legalized bribery you are passing off as normal and acceptable.

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One thing I hate and find immoral is being misquoted when the statement is right there in public.

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And linked, for anyone who wants to see the whole context. All they have to do is press the little arrow at the end of the quoted excerpt, which has an ellipsis in it, showing that I have quoted only part of your post. Methinks thou dost protest too much. However, since I evidently misunderstood what you meant and you take offense at that, I am happy to offer my apology.

I never said I find the system of political contributions acceptable. Normal, unfortunately yes. (In fact, I refuse to check off that $1 box on my income tax because I dislike the "contribution" sytem so much.) If you bothered to post the rest of my statement (from the prior post, which was linked with "Let's give one more example..."), I was saying tipping a host or hostess for a special service or request is better than giving money to politicians, which I do consider a bribe because their asking for your vote and money based on campaign promises. Hence the use of "you decide" at the end  and the word contribute in quotes in the beginning - an obvious way of making that point.[...]

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Obvious to you, but obviously not obvious to me. I posted based on my interpretation of the meaning of your post. I appreciate the clarification.

Now, finally, I would merely say that while a comparison of the corrupting effect of bribing politicians vs. bribing maitres d' demonstrates that it is much more damaging to bribe politicians, it does not demonstrate that it is thereby entirely moral and of no ethical concern when people bribe maitres d', especially for things like cutting the line. I think it was in kindergarten that most of us learned that it is unfair to cut the line, which is why at least some of us have a visceral sense that it is sleazy at best to pay to jump the line.

I will refrain to comment on your shock that it could be possible for an individual who happens to hold the volunteer position of manager of the eGullet Society to make a mistake, except to say that you're right: We do make mistakes, of course.

[daves]

I think most of us reading this thread have figured something out

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sure did! I figured out that the market economy works well even with restaurants queues: some people, when faced with the real price for a scarce resource, pay it. Others would rather wait 'til it is more available (and therefore discounted) or do without. I also figured out that some people don't like the fact that they won't/can't pay and get bypassed by others with the ready funds for exchange.

For those who think this is like "cutting the line": I hope you realize you are probably doing the exact same thing every single time that you buy something -- the only difference being that it is on a macro-economic level. If you are in a developed nation, and you are willing to pay the market price for some good, you've just "cut in front" of everyone who was waiting for the price to come down. That bunch of bananas got diverted to your local market because you are willing to spend your local market rate, which is probably far higher than it would have fetched in the country of origin. Without that export market, there would probably be a glut for bananas in the originating country, the price would be far lower, and probably a lot more locals would be eating cheaper bananas.

So, you are willing to slap $5 on the counter and step in front of others by creating an export market for bananas. How is this any different than the market for "better service"? Is it that you get your bananas but you watch others get the better service? Is one more 'fair' than the other?

[ingridsf]

When I was in college and at a swanky (for me) holiday buffet party, a party I got to go to because I was a work-study student, I was in line for the dessert table. There was chocolate mousse and maybe one portion left. I was just about to reach it when some guy in a suit tried to slip in ahead of me and YES! he was going for the mousse.

I said it then and I say it now when necessary:

"Hey, back off, buddy. No cutting."

Fortunately, the President of the university chose to find my fierceness charming.

Regarding the idea that Life and the Global Economy Are Categorically Unfair So Why Not Cut in Line, well, I haven't heard anything so bleak since my Existential Philosophy class. It made me want to put on a beret and smoke a cigarette. Because...why bother? We're all going to die and when we reach the gates of heaven, what will we see? A line, mon ami, a line! Will you dare to cut that one, I ask?

[FabulousFoodBabe]

Regarding the idea that Life and the Global Economy Are Categorically Unfair So Why Not Cut in Line, well, I haven't heard anything so bleak since my Existential Philosophy class.  It made me want to put on a beret and smoke a cigarette.  Because...why bother?  We're all going to die and when we reach the gates of heaven, what will we see?  A line, mon ami, a line!  Will you dare to cut that one, I ask?

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Ingrid, you had me going until the gates of heaven! Made me put on my Sophia Loren sunglasses and a headscarf, and wave my cigarettes around.

Yeah, we all can't have everything. I'd hate to think that the broccoli at the grocery store was $1.99/lb for "everyone," but Mr. Washington allows me access to better stuff than the rest of the people.

Face it: Bribing the maitre d' is the working man's equivalent of a Porsche. I wonder how many brib-ees keep the money and really do nothing different? It's all about perception, and totally unnecessary.

I think I'll hang on to my $$; every time I don't bribe someone, is one less day I'm eating cat food at the Happy Acres Nursing Home.

[edited because my initial post sounded naughty.]

Edited April 17, 2006 by FabulousFoodBabe (log)

[KOK]

When I was in college and at a swanky (for me) holiday buffet party, a party I got to go to because I was a work-study student, I was in line for the dessert table.  There was chocolate mousse and maybe one portion left.  I was just about to reach it when some guy in a suit tried to slip in ahead of me and YES! he was going for the mousse.

I said it then and I say it now when necessary:

"Hey, back off, buddy. No cutting."

Fortunately, the President of the university chose to find my fierceness charming.

Regarding the idea that Life and the Global Economy Are Categorically Unfair So Why Not Cut in Line, well, I haven't heard anything so bleak since my Existential Philosophy class.  It made me want to put on a beret and smoke a cigarette.  Because...why bother?  We're all going to die and when we reach the gates of heaven, what will we see?  A line, mon ami, a line!  Will you dare to cut that one, I ask?

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Since my hypocrisy is boundless, I find nothing wrong with the pre-tip/bribe, but I also agree 100% with you calling out the boss for cutting in line to nab the mousse.

I guess it's a situational thing for me. If I'm on line at the bank and Jed Clampett comes in, I'm not surprised he gets his own banker for his 100 million dollars. If Joe Schmuckatelli comes in, he has to wait like everyone else and I be mad if he jumped to the front by offering $20 to a cashier. But the guys who gave the boxing usher $50 to go to ringside seats give me no trouble.

I'll continue to tip bartenders at open bar events, and grease a Maitre D' if I really want to get into a 'booked-for-months' restaurant. If I'm going to hell for that, I already have my bottle of SPF Hades sunscreen so I'm prepared

Thanks,

Kevin

[annecros]

This whole "cut in line" thing is rather illusory, as well. When there is a wait at a restaurant, there is no "line", there is a funnel with a full top.

You are a party of two, you get on the wait list in front of a party of four and a party of eight.

A table that sits four becomes available. The party of four is seated ahead of you. You are seated when the next table that cannot be drug over to accomodate the party of eight becomes available, a table that only seats two becomes available, or if someone checks your wait time and decides you have been waiting "too long" and "we'd better get them seated or they are going to get mad."

The party of eight will usually see the two parties ahead of them seated, then probably two or three parties at least that get there after them are seated. A walk in eight top can expect a long wait in a busy restaurant, no matter who they tip, bribe, or grease.

If you are a party of two, and want that table for four that becomes available before a table for two becomes available, well then some consideration is probably in order, and you have to decide how bad you want it and to what lengths you will go to to get it. If they try to seat you immediately, and you know there is a wait, but it is a crummy little table for two in a high traffic restaurant, you take it or politely offer to go on the wait list until a better table becomes available, or offer some consideration for that nice booth that seats four that just needs bussing. That is, if it matters that much to you.

I just make a reservation, and if I know the layout of the place I might ask for a table in a specific area, I do have servers that I like in some places. Otherwise, I just go to the bar, and drink until I am called. Sometimes, by then ALL the tables look good! Then there are the "no reservations taken" places. Get there early, and be nice to people, and bring your patience. Those chains are run with an iron fist, and if you observe the layout and decor when you arrive, it is very difficult to determine from the lobby where, what kind, and how many tables are open from the door.

Seats and turns and plates.

Isn't it a wonderful world!

[daves]

Regarding the idea that Life and the Global Economy Are Categorically Unfair So Why Not Cut in Line, well, I haven't heard anything so bleak since my Existential Philosophy class.  It made me want to put on a beret and smoke a cigarette.  Because...why bother?  We're all going to die and when we reach the gates of heaven, what will we see?  A line, mon ami, a line!  Will you dare to cut that one, I ask?

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Interesting interpretation and I didn't mean to drive you toward a smog-stick. I was thinking that the global thing was fundamentally fair because there are clear rewards for success -- you get to compete and sometimes win in the marketplace. The only thing I would have considered bleak is the rejection of all global "cutting the line" and living on a commune, subsisting on the potatoes and carrots tended equally by the community. You know -- just to be fair and all.

Apparently there is a price to be paid in advance for crossing through the pearly gates. The price isn't clearly and objectively posted and you need to be paying it well in advance with no guarantee of delivery. I'd hate to think that some people would consider this a bribe...

Mousse cutting man realized that the price was higher than he expected -- ingridsf's ire -- and he didn't want to pay the price

[rich]

It seems the majority of posts refer to "cutting a line" of waiting people and I understand that's done, but I think not as frequently as some of the posts suggest.

(And just for the record, I have never tipped a host/hostess to cut a line. The closest is when I have tipped because I didn't make a reservation at a very busy restaurant and it's my way of saying "...if you can seat me when you have an opening, I would appreciate it. I was dumb for not making a reservation." Will that get me a table before another person who didn't have a reservation and didn't tip? Probably, but I have no problem with that since we both failed to call ahead. I chose to take a step to correct the error, the other person didn't.)

I listed several other reasons (upthread) why tips are given to restaurant staff before the meal. Does anyone have a problem with any of them?

Also, what are people's opinions about places where an automatic gratuity is added to the bill? Since this is "paid" in a sense before the meal (actual dollar amount determined from bill), does anyone have a problem with it? I know it's collected after the meal, but that's irrelevent because you know about it before you order or possibly prior to visiting the resto.

The reason I ask is several posts referred to the "tip" being given after the meal as a reward for good service and a "bribe" be given before the service occurs. Using Per Se as an example, since they add 22 percent to the bill, you don't have that option with an automatic charge. Sure you can add to the tip and slip someone some money, but the choice of giving less is not an option. The same holds true for many restaurants that add the gratuity (usually 18 percent) with parties of six or more.

Finally, there was a tipping topic several months ago where the large majority of posters said (and they quoted research papers) that service has no bearing on the tip amount. From my years as a waiter in a relatively upscale place, I disagreed based on my tips versus other staff members. However, I was told my experience was anecdotal and was disproved by this quoted research.

But a number or posters on this thread indicate they do tip on service by either giving more or less depending on the experience. There seems to be a conflict somewhere.

Edited April 17, 2006 by rich (log)

[annecros]

It seems the majority of posts refer to "cutting a line" of waiting people and I understand that's done, but I think not as frequently as some of the posts suggest.

(And just for the record, I have never tipped a host/hostess to cut a line. The closest is when I have tipped because I didn't make a reservation at a very busy restaurant and it's my way of saying "...if you can seat me when you have an opening, I would appreciate it. I was dumb for not making a reservation." Will that get me a table before another person who didn't have a reservation and didn't tip? Probably, but I have no problem with that since we both failed to call ahead. I chose to take a step to correct the error, the other person didn't.)

I listed several other reasons (upthread) why tips are given to restaurant staff before the meal. Does anyone have a problem with any of them?

Also, what are people's opinions about places where an automatic gratuity is added to the bill? Since this is "paid" in a sense before the meal (actual dollar amount determined from bill), does anyone have a problem with it? I know it's collected after the meal, but that's irrelevent because you know about it before you order or possibly prior to visiting the resto.

The reason I ask is several posts referred to the "tip" being given after the meal as a reward for good service and a "bribe" be given before the service occurs. Using Per Se as an example, since they add 22 percent to the bill, you don't have that option with an automatic charge. Sure you can add to the tip and slip someone some money, but the choice of giving less is not an option. The same holds true for many restaurants that add the gratuity (usually 18 percent) with parties of six or more.

Finally, there was a tipping topic several months ago where the large majority of posters said (and they quoted research papers) that service has no bearing on the tip amount. From my years as a waiter in a relatively upscale place, I disagreed based on my tips versus other staff members. However, I was told my experience was anecdotal and was disproved by this quoted research.

But a number or posters on this thread indicate they do tip on service by either giving more or less depending on the experience. There seems to be a conflict somewhere.

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I didn't see the earlier thread, and have no idea upon what research the conclusion that quality of service has no bearing on the tip was gathered from, but the conclusioin is unbelievable to me, personally.

Anecdotal or not, I can't buy it. I know that better servers get better tips.

[rich]

I didn't see the earlier thread, and have no idea upon what research the conclusion that quality of service has no bearing on the tip was gathered from, but the conclusioin is unbelievable to me, personally.

Anecdotal or not, I can't buy it.  I know that better servers get better tips.

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Anne, I agree with you, but was in a very small minority. Perhaps a moderator or someone who is better with the threads than me can provide a link (I forget the actual title), but it took place in the last half of 2005.

I do remember everyone was quoting this guy from Texas, who did the research for a local university. I don't remember his name.