Letter to Lacroix

[Kim WB]

I don't want a free meal and I don't want a big back and forth w/the restaurant. I just want to get my point across. So, how does this letter read to you:

Dear Chef Lacroix,

I'd like to compliment the wonderful food and service that I received while dining at Lacroix on Tuesday, March7. I have had the opportunity to dine in a variety of fine restaurants, and your well composed, balanced and perfectly prepared courses were memorable. Both your wine and dinner menus are complex without being overwhelming, providing a knowledgeable diner with an opportunity to create a very special dining experience.

However, our table for two was in the corrider to the far right of the windows. Surrounded by two large tables, with my dining partner forced to look at a brick wall and an "EXIT" sign, we were suprised that you would have such an apparant sub par table at your restaurant. Once those large tables were full, it was like being in a narrow cavern. Also, our waiter explained to us that an adjoining room was a private dining room for residents of the Hotel. I can not begin to tell you how 20 solid minutes of a newborn squealing totally ruined our dining experience. Yes, we were offerred a seat at the "chef's table" for dessert..but the crying was disruptive and intermittent even before I complained. It goes without saying that the mother of that baby was extremely rude, but it is your responsibility to minimize the impact of that "private room" to the rest of your dining guests.

I stronly suggest that you dine at the same table we were at, while the restaurant is full, so that you can become aware of the ambient noise and disruptions while seated there.

Simply put, your food deserves a better environment than the one we were in on Tuesday evening.

[mrbigjas]

I don't want a free meal and I don't want a big back and forth w/the restaurant.  I just want to get my point across. So, how does this letter read to you:

Dear Chef Lacroix,

I'd like to compliment the wonderful food and service that I received while dining at Lacroix on Tuesday, March7.  I have had the opportunity to dine in a variety of fine restaurants, and your well composed, balanced and perfectly prepared courses were memorable. Both your wine and dinner menus are complex without being overwhelming, providing a knowledgeable diner with an opportunity to create a very special dining experience.

However, our table for two was in the corrider to the far right of the windows.  Surrounded by two  large tables, with my dining partner forced to look at a brick wall and an "EXIT" sign, we were suprised that you would have such an apparant sub par table at your restaurant. Once those large tables were full, it was like being in a narrow cavern.  Also, our waiter explained to us that an adjoining room was a private dining room for residents of the Hotel.  I can not begin to tell you how 20 solid minutes of a newborn squealing totally ruined our dining experience.  Yes, we were offerred a seat at the "chef's table" for dessert..but the crying was disruptive and intermittent even before I complained.  It goes without saying that the mother of that baby was extremely rude, but it is your responsibility to minimize the impact of that "private room"  to the rest of your dining guests. 

I stronly suggest that you dine at the same table we were at, while the restaurant is full, so that you can become aware of the ambient noise and disruptions while seated there. 

Simply put, your food deserves a better environment than the one we were in on Tuesday evening.

←

looks good to me...

[CherieV]

I don't want a free meal and I don't want a big back and forth w/the restaurant.  I just want to get my point across. So, how does this letter read to you:

Dear Chef Lacroix,

I'd like to compliment the wonderful food and service that I received while dining at Lacroix on Tuesday, March7.  I have had the opportunity to dine in a variety of fine restaurants, and your well composed, balanced and perfectly prepared courses were memorable. Both your wine and dinner menus are complex without being overwhelming, providing a knowledgeable diner with an opportunity to create a very special dining experience.

However, our table for two was in the corrider to the far right of the windows.  Surrounded by two  large tables, with my dining partner forced to look at a brick wall and an "EXIT" sign, we were suprised that you would have such an apparant sub par table at your restaurant. Once those large tables were full, it was like being in a narrow cavern.  Also, our waiter explained to us that an adjoining room was a private dining room for residents of the Hotel.  I can not begin to tell you how 20 solid minutes of a newborn squealing totally ruined our dining experience.  Yes, we were offerred a seat at the "chef's table" for dessert..but the crying was disruptive and intermittent even before I complained.  It goes without saying that the mother of that baby was extremely rude, but it is your responsibility to minimize the impact of that "private room"  to the rest of your dining guests. 

I stronly suggest that you dine at the same table we were at, while the restaurant is full, so that you can become aware of the ambient noise and disruptions while seated there. 

Simply put, your food deserves a better environment than the one we were in on Tuesday evening.

←

Having worked for Chef, he will appreciate your feedback.

[philadining]

Yeah, that sounds like a legitimate gripe, and you explain it well. I think restaurants can be helped immensely by customers pointing things like this out.

The crying baby thing is a tricky one, I wouldn't want to be the server or even manager who has to explain to this oblivious mom or dad that the little one is ruining other people's experiences. I think it's great that parents bring kids of any age to restaurants, even fancy ones, but they also have to have the sense to know when their children are being disruptive.

Who knows, maybe your letter will prompt them to devise a default response to these situations, where they may have been ad-libbing previously.

Your letter is well-phrased and focused, I hope you send it. Please let us know what you hear in response.

[shacke]

The crying baby thing is a tricky one, I wouldn't want to be the server or even manager who has to explain to this oblivious mom or dad that the little one is ruining other people's experiences. I think it's great that parents bring kids of any age to restaurants, even fancy ones, but they also have to have the sense to know when their children are being disruptive.

←

Having kids myself, my opinion is that taking a baby to an upscale restaurant for dinner is never appropriate unless it is a private affair. The parents should have known this. In this situation, this was obviously not the case. It's not like it's an airline flight where you have no choice but to take your kid when you know they are going to wail.

But what can Lacroix or other restaurants do in this situation? I say this not rhetorically but with serious curiosity. It must be a serious balancing act. Tell the parents to take the baby away? Perhaps so. In some ways it is an incident like this that puts the restaurant in a pickle because a patron has poor judgment. What if the guy next to you smells really awful and its really getting to you? Does the restaurant tell him to leave? What if the gal next to you won't stop coughing and won't cover her mouth? At some point should the diner be the responsible party to say something or is it easier to have someone do it because it's confrontational and its happening on their turf?

What have those of you with restaurant experience done in cases like this?

WB Kim brings up an interesting management question here. Bottom line is her evening sucked and that's a major bummer in a place like Lacroix. I am certain they would appreciate the feedback.

Evan

Edited March 9, 2006 by shacke (log)

[Kouign Aman]

Surrounded by two large tables, with my dining partner forced to look at a brick wall and an "EXIT" sign, we were suprised that you would have such an apparant sub par table at your restaurant. Once those large tables were full, it was like being in a narrow cavern. Also, our waiter explained to us that an adjoining room was a private dining room for residents of the Hotel. I can not begin to tell you how 20 solid minutes of a newborn squealing totally ruined our dining experience. Yes, we were offerred a seat at the "chef's table" for dessert..but the crying was disruptive and intermittent even before I complained. It goes without saying that the mother of that baby was extremely rude, but it is your responsibility to minimize the impact of that "private room" to the rest of your dining guests.

"apparant sub par table " - do you mean apparently sub-par or abberantly sub-par? In the first case, drop the word all together. Your description makes it very clear the table is sub-par.

"adjoining room was a private dining room for residents of the Hotel....20 solid minutes of a newborn squealing ..." Since its for hotel guests, the parents had every right to be there. Sad reality of hotels. Sad judgement of parents that they didnt hire the hotel sitter for the evening. Sad choice not to use the hotel's other dinner choices.

However, since its clearly an issue (probably for the larger tables next to you as well), the restaurant does have the option to use sound-deadening techniques such as fabric on the walls of the private dining room, white noise (low level) in the restaurant, etc.

I think its a nice letter, and a professional should be pleased to get the feedback from a clearly appreciative customer.

<editted to fix blonde formatting>

Edited March 9, 2006 by Kouign Aman (log)

[Jeff L]

The crying baby thing is a tricky one, I wouldn't want to be the server or even manager who has to explain to this oblivious mom or dad that the little one is ruining other people's experiences. I think it's great that parents bring kids of any age to restaurants, even fancy ones, but they also have to have the sense to know when their children are being disruptive.

←

Our kids aren't really kids anymore as they are 18 and 20 years old, but we did in fact take them to fine dining establishments when they were babies. The key difference in our approach is that we were and are responsible and considerate parents who knew that the full responsibility of our kids beahvior in these situations is ours and ours alone.

This particular occurrence really drives me crazy and in my view is indicitive of a whole generation of parents who are so self absorbed and "me" focused that they become totally oblivious as in the case here.

Your letter is good. Succint and to the point.

Edited March 9, 2006 by Jeff L (log)

[robert40]

The crying baby thing is a tricky one, I wouldn't want to be the server or even manager who has to explain to this oblivious mom or dad that the little one is ruining other people's experiences. I think it's great that parents bring kids of any age to restaurants, even fancy ones, but they also have to have the sense to know when their children are being disruptive.

←

Our kids aren't really kids anymore as they are 18 and 20 years old, but we did in fact take them to fine dining establishments when they were babies. The key difference in our approach is that we were and are responsible and considerate parents who knew that the full responsibility of our kids beahvior in these situations is ours and ours alone.

This particular occurrence really drives me crazy and in my view is indicitive of a whole generation of parents who are so self absorbed and "me" focused that they become totally oblivious as in the case here.

Your letter is good. Succint and to the point.

←

Well said and I could not agree more.

[Mummer]

I think it is unfair to post your letter before Chef LaCroix has had an opportunity to respond.

I think it would be have been fair to tell about your experience. I think your issues are valid.

The meal is over, but correspondence has just started.

[Kim WB]

I am not looking for Chef Lacroix to respond in any way...indeed, I will not correspond with him as I feel that kind of effort is more than I want. The food was great, the service was fantastic..and this special room is for those who LIVE at the hotel, a communal dining room of sorts..it's off to the side,with a tv, couches, communal tables, t...its a perc for the teneants..part of the hotel is condo-coops I assume. this was not a fullpaying guest with a reservation at a table near mine. this was a women using a private dining room as her personal living room..which would be fine, but install a door or something..

Thanks for your feedback, I will spruce up the grammer a bit and fax it over.

[Jeff L]

I think it is unfair to post your letter before Chef LaCroix has had an opportunity to respond.

I think it would be have been fair to tell about your experience. I think your issues are valid.

The meal is over, but correspondence has just started.

←

Good point Charlie, though she really was looking for constructive criticism before actually sending the letter to Chef LaCroix.

[Vadouvan]

The very fact that you have started this thread should generate some action.

Quite a few of my friends who work at Lacroix read this board daily.

The most frustrating thing for cooks is to see the hard efforts of the kitchen "lost in translation"

I politely ask to be moved when these situations happen.

If they say no, leave politely.

Its entirely too much money to spend for not having peace of mind.

Sad choice not to use the hotel's other dinner choices.

I dont think anyone who intends to dine at Lacroix would head to Boathouse bar instead,

It isnt exactly a toss-up.

[etalanian]

My kids are both teens now, but when they were small we took them to restaurants often.

Our son was so self-entertained that he was a delight, and never fussed or made any noises.

Our daughter, on the other hand, being the baby from hell (although she turned out to be a delightful child once she reached two), would inevitably start fussing and when she did, we knew that next would come the screaming.

One or the other of us would whisk her out of the restaurant at the first start of a fuss. It is our joke that we never ate a meal together as a couple once Em was born. But we were very serious about NEVER inflicting any inconvenience or discomfort on any other diners.

If the residents of the hotel don't have the decency or courtesy to remove their crying children from the restaurant, then the management of Lacroix should either find a way to tell them the child must be removed, or install a soundproof door so that this doesn't happen even one more time to another guest.

At the prices Lacroix charges, no one should ever feel discomfort while dining there. Not even for a moment.

Eileen

[Holly Moore]

I am not looking for Chef Lacroix to respond in any way...indeed, I will not correspond with him as I feel that kind of effort is more than I want.  The food was great, the service was fantastic..and this special room is for those who LIVE at the hotel, a communal dining room of sorts..it's off to the side,with a tv,  couches, communal tables, t...its a perc for the teneants..part of the hotel is condo-coops I assume.  this was not a fullpaying guest with a reservation at a table near mine. this was a women using a private dining room as her personal living room..which  would be fine, but install a door or something..

Thanks for your feedback, I will spruce up the grammer a bit and fax it over.

←

I expect and hope that Chef Lacroix will/does respond. The place has his name on it. And, different perhaps from the cooks, the Chef should be concerned and influence all aspects off the dinner - the food and the circumstances under which the food is savored.

Lacroix, the restaurant, should not have questionable, undersirable tables that spoil a diner's experience. Hospitality and a commitment to excellence, not greed, should dictate the dining room layout, especially at Lacroix's prices.

[Greg Salisbury]

Well put, Holly. I have never been to LaCroix, but I know first-hand that the revenue generated by a table that presents itself as subpar compared to the rest of the seating choices could not possibly make up for the loss of revenue due to subsequent poor word of mouth like WB Kim's.

As a restaurateur (and parent of toddlers), I can say emphatically that everyone has a right to dine - even parents with babies. All I can do is hope that said families will make responsible choices about dining times.

It sounds like the staff was aware enough of the problem that they moved you for dessert. Was this comped? If you are dining in a restaurant with no open tables and a crying baby next to you, I would offer you complimentary dessert and coffee/after-dinner drinks as I was moving you to the first available table away from the baby.

That said, I know that if you took the time to write a letter after your experience, you need to be treated differently - and better. Going this extra step means you are someone who not only cares about her experience, but cares enough to tell me - and all of your friends - about it as well. I would much rather you have a positive coda to this story than not, and would treat you accordingly.

And thank you for taking the time to let him know about your experience. Anyone in this biz worth their salt would only be too grateful to hear constructive criticism and be given a chance to rectify a situation; a damn sight better than wondering why the numbers keep dropping.

[Mummer]

Rittenhouse Square - Friday, March 10, 2006

Assistant: Chef, the eGullet letter has arrived.

Chef: Send our response immediately, and be certain that we follow-up next week.

The above is purely speculative, of course.

Anybody running a successful business will attempt to resolve a customer issue with alacrity.

That's why I found this thread's timing premature. It either would never have appeared or surfaced as a "restaurant does a good deed" story. As the restaurateurs have posted, serious customer feedback would not be ignored.

And some reader may have gone elsewhere last night.

[Kim WB]

That's why I found this thread's timing premature.  It either would never have appeared or surfaced as a "restaurant does a good deed" story.  As the restaurateurs have posted, serious customer feedback would not be ignored.

And some reader may have gone elsewhere last night.

←

I respect this as your point of view, but my intent, truely, was to have feedback on the tone of the letter, to make sure it was clear enough and had the validity I was looking for. I'm not keen as being seen as a complainer..indeed, if the food and service were not spectacular, I'd have never cared enough to write a letter. I'd just never go back.

FWIW, I faxed it out last evening, adding a short paragraph to the end, something along the lines of " I hope you take this lettter as intended, just as a way to make you aware of something that I am sure, if you kenw about, you would remedy, and wishing him continued success.

I have absolutely no complaints about the service, the prices, the food, the wine..and I think I've been clear about that. I certainly hope the talented Chef Lacroix doesn't loose a customer, but if someone did visit last night, looked around, and asked for another table, then I have done a fellow foodie a favor.

[Bobby 2 Shakes]

I think it is unfair to post your letter before Chef LaCroix has had an opportunity to respond.

I think it would be have been fair to tell about your experience. I think your issues are valid.

The meal is over, but correspondence has just started.

←

I disagree with the standpoint that Kim's post was unfair. When opening for business with the public, a proprietor assumes certain risks when there is a lapse in customer service. Would you expect Craig Laban or a Mobil Guide reviewer to call the chef and warn him about these lapses?

[Kim WB]

Just an update, for thsoe of you who were kind enough to share your opinions and follow along. there has been no response or acknoledgement to my fax, sent 3/9.

That was not my objective, but other members contacted me to get an update, so I figured I'd post this.

Edited March 20, 2006 by Kim WB (log)

[Vadouvan]

I am not suprised KimWB

However, it seems the lack of response may not be just arrogance or indifference on the restaurant's part.

From very good sources, certain events have transpired since your dinner.

1. Executive sous chef was let go.

2. Dominique Filoni of Bianca was hired.

3. Jean Marie Lacroix is retiring or retired but the restaurant will still keep his name and he would stay on as a consultant/ceremonious appearances.

Clearly they are in transition and your horrible dinner may be the least of thier problems.

[Kouign Aman]

I got the impression KimWB did not expect a response, and the tone of her letter and the added last paragraph did not invite one. Nor did I get the impression that dinner was "horrible", just less comfortable than it deserved to be, given the food.

If I were to receive such a letter, I hope I'd toss off a "thank you for bringing this to my attention" note, but if times were busy, as Vadouvan describes, the response note might slip under the radar, even tho the info in the letter did not.

KimWB, if you ever get a chance to check it out, it would be interesting to know if that table is still there, and if there were changes to the interface between the hotel dining room and the restaurant. If there were, I think you can attribute them to your letter, and assume the chef is grateful.

[bigboss]

I am not suprised KimWB

However, it seems the lack of response may not be just arrogance or indifference on the restaurant's part.

From very good sources, certain events have transpired since your dinner.

1. Executive sous chef was let go.

2. Dominique Filoni of Bianca was hired.

3. Jean Marie Lacroix is retiring or retired but the restaurant will still keep his name and he would stay on as a consultant/ceremonious appearances.

Clearly they are in transition and your horrible dinner may be the least of thier problems.

←

now that this subject is a matter of discussion, i would like to take this opportunity to thank any and all members of the egullet society that came to brunch, referred customers to brunch and/or discussed brunch in this forum. your unabated critiques helped me to better provide customers with a more satisfying meal within my cost/labor constraints. i found the posted photographs particularly helpful and encouraging, as they illustrate the food rather attractively from the customer's perspective (after two years it all starts to look the same). in any event, thanks again for your input.

[CherieV]

Clearly they are in transition and your horrible dinner may be the least of thier problems.

←

I do not believe that this dinner was "horrible". Some things are out of the control of the chef and management such as: other customers, design of room etc. Service and food are the things that can be affected on a daily basis. Clearly KimWB had great food and great service. Incedently, I ate a Lacroix recently and I do know the table that KimWB is referring to and sat right near it in fact. It is right at the window (coveted seats) and it has a view. This table sat guests all evening with no problems during the time I was there. Also, did anyone at Lacroix actually recieve the fax? Was it faxed to the proper dept? Hotels are big and things tend to get lost. It is interesting to note also that this is the ONLY negative thing I have read in regards to one of our best restaurants in Philly. Baby crying and "I didn't like the table" is not waited very heavy in terms of valid complaints in my book. Personally, I do not think there is a bad table in the room from what I can tell. I was restaurant manager at The Four Seasons so I am especially sensitive to this type of criticism.

[shacke]

Clearly they are in transition and your horrible dinner may be the least of thier problems.

←

I do not believe that this dinner was "horrible". Some things are out of the control of the chef and management such as: other customers, design of room etc. Service and food are the things that can be affected on a daily basis. Clearly KimWB had great food and great service. Incedently, I ate a Lacroix recently and I do know the table that KimWB is referring to and sat right near it in fact. It is right at the window (coveted seats) and it has a view. This table sat guests all evening with no problems during the time I was there. Also, did anyone at Lacroix actually recieve the fax? Was it faxed to the proper dept? Hotels are big and things tend to get lost. It is interesting to note also that this is the ONLY negative thing I have read in regards to one of our best restaurants in Philly. Baby crying and "I didn't like the table" is not waited very heavy in terms of valid complaints in my book. Personally, I do not think there is a bad table in the room from what I can tell. I was restaurant manager at The Four Seasons so I am especially sensitive to this type of criticism.

←

Was the post by bigboss from the "Big Boss?" If not, it appears the message itself was received by someone who matters/ed.

[philadining]

Yeah, i couldn't tell if bigboss is/was associated with Lacroix. He was referring to a different thread, the brunch extravaganza, not KimWB's complaints, and might have been talking abstractly about those posts being helpful to someone putting on a brunch somewhere else. I'm not convinced that post tells us anything about Kim's situation.

bigboss, can you clarify?