Beautiful Tenafly

[menton1]

The lovely, upscale town of Tenafly, the town everyone has heard of, is not particularly restaurant-friendly, especially in the past few years. Many restos have come and go, from the fancy to the sublime.

Villa Cortina-- Closed last year.

Stancato's- Closed a few years ago, space is fallow, weeds all over the parking area.

Jerry's Osteria-- Gone with the wind.

Max's-- The latest of several failed incarnations in this space.

Sapphire-- Closed last month, they have posters announcing another Korean resto opening soon. (Preceded by "Kervan's ")

America-- Closed last year, very upscale, recently reincarnated as Sanzari's Oyster Bar. (Are their oysters better than Legal's?)

Is there anything endemic to Tenafly that makes for restaurant failures? It seemingly has everything going for it-- great demographics, near the GW, parking generally good, upscale crowds. Why is Tenafly such a curse for restaurateurs?

Forum Host Note: Max's Italian Grill is NOT closed. It is open and doing business at this very moment. I apologize to Max's for allowing an unsubstantiated rumor to be spread on eGullet Forums. - Rachel

Edited March 10, 2006 by Rachel Perlow (log)

[tommy]

The lovely, upscale town of Tenafly, the town everyone has heard of, is not particularly restaurant-friendly, especially in the past few years.  Many restos have come and go, from the fancy to the sublime. 

Villa Cortina--  Closed last year.

Stancato's-  Closed a few years ago, space is fallow, weeds all over the parking area. 

Jerry's Osteria--  Gone with the wind.

Max's-- The latest of several failed incarnations in this space.

Sapphire--  Closed last month, they have posters announcing another Korean resto opening soon. (Preceded by "Kervan's ")

America--  Closed last year, very upscale, recently reincarnated as Sanzari's Oyster Bar.  (Are their oysters better than Legal's?)

Is there anything endemic to Tenafly that makes for restaurant failures?  It seemingly has everything going for it-- great demographics, near the GW, parking generally good, upscale crowds.  Why is Tenafly such a curse for restaurateurs?

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i can barely tell you where tenafly is. and until 3 or 4 years ago i had absolutely no idea. i guess i had no reason to know, which is probably part of the answer to your question.

[Jason Perlow]

Is there anything endemic to Tenafly that makes for restaurant failures? It seemingly has everything going for it-- great demographics, near the GW, parking generally good, upscale crowds. Why is Tenafly such a curse for restaurateurs?

The commercial real estate is too damn expensive and the parking genuinely sucks unless you own your own lot, like Sanzari's. And despite your claims of "great demographics" the town is now very Korean so most traditional restaurants are not doing as well as they used to -- the Koreans eat elsewhere unless its a Korean restaurant. Most places in Tenafly that make any money are take-out type places.

Other than Tenafly Bagel, Tea Garden, Good Taste there are few places in Tenafly itself I actually eat at or get take out from regularly. Parking permitting, I sometimes get stuff from Tenafly Kosher or Tenafly Pizzaria Restaurant or walk in to get gelato at Ciao Bella. Washington Street and Railroad Ave are horrendous for parking during regular business hours. Rachel and I only started going back to the Tenafly Classic Diner only recently, and only when we can manage to get a parking space there or at the drugstore parking lot.

[menton1]

The commercial real estate is too damn expensive and the parking genuinely sucks unless you own your own lot, like Sanzari's. And the town is now very Korean so most traditional restaurants are not doing as well as they used to -- the Koreans eat elsewhere. Most places in Tenafly that make any money are take-out type places.

Other than Tenafly Bagel, Tenafly Diner, Tea Garden, Good Taste there are few places in Tenafly itself I actually eat or get food from.

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Well, it's no more expensive than anywhere else in Bergen, I'm sure. It also seems that parking is not really that bad, most of the restos I mentioned above either had their own lot or plenty of on-street parking nearby... Certainly no worse than Ridgewood in those respects, but Ridgewood has restaurants that thrive and endure.

YOu mentioned fast-food places, those have no problem-- you left out Piermont Resto, the best "greasy spoon"in town;

Also Cafe Angelique, that bistro type place in the restored RR station, seems to be doing quite well. It is packed to the gills with customers from morning to night. Deservedly so, IMHO.

N.B. Tommy-- Aren't you an oyster afficionado? You can give Sanzari the oyster test, see if it does better than Legal.

[Jason Perlow]

Well, it's no more expensive than anywhere else in Bergen, I'm sure.

Do you have access to the Garden State MLS? I don't, but Rachel does.

YOu mentioned fast-food places, those have no problem-- you left out Piermont Resto, the best "greasy spoon"in town;

Its also been there forever and there is no lack of parking on Piermont Road.

Also Cafe Angelique, that bistro type place in the restored RR station, seems to be doing quite well. It is packed to the gills with customers from morning to night. Deservedly so, IMHO.

Its a cute restaurant. Also contributes to the parking problem on Railroad Ave.

[menton1]

Do you have access to the Garden State MLS? I don't, but Rachel does

I think that mainly lists home prices, not restaurant rents; However, rest assured that Ridgewood, as an example, has equivalent or higher rents per square foot, and a much, much worse parking situation than Tenafly. Yet Ridgewood restos do very well. So I don't think rent costs or parking are the root of the restaurant problem in Tenafly.

[Jason Perlow]

The MLS also has commerical real estate pricing for restaurant space. I know so because Rachel was looking for space for a client recently.

Ridgewood I agree has horrendous parking and successful restaurants. But Ridgewood has a much, much larger town center than Tenafly.

[PicnicChef]

Max's failed? Darned that. I gave that place a great review about two years or so ago in the Record...

What a shame, a crying shame. He was a wonderful chef

[tommy]

N.B. Tommy-- Aren't you an oyster afficionado?  You can give Sanzari the oyster test, see if it does better than Legal.

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nah. i probably couldn't even find tenafly with a GPS.

it's safe to say that rent is more expensive in ridgewood. i don't need access to MLS to know that (although i have it: www.njmls.com ). the success of restaurants no doubt goes beyond rents and parking, though.

the restaurants listed appear to be mostly old-school italian restaurants. not exactly making the splash that restaurants in montclair and ridgewood might. ( although, if you look at failure rates, you'll see failure in both of those towns as well.) if they're not good or popular it probably has a lot to do with their food and promotion.

Edited February 25, 2006 by tommy (log)

[Anonymouze]

Actually a good example was that great tasting puerto rican/hispanic food place (Sazon) - the owner made great mofongo and other cultural dishes from her region but in Ridgewood the clientele (People who shop there with their kids during the week and weekends) weren't the type who could appreciate it... they like more "main stream" types of choices (I notice the brick-oven pizza place always full of young families when I drive through town also the pancake house?) anyhow this is how it seems to me, so now (and for this we are VERY lucky... ) in the place where it was is Silver Oak Bistro!

I'm sad to hear about Sapphire in Tenalfy, though the food was very tasty and had a great authenticity to it IMHO the next best thing would be Babylon in River Edge by where Hoffman Koos used to be... great Middle Eastern food at that place.

Edited February 25, 2006 by Anonymouze (log)

[tommy]

Sazon, the restaurant to which Anonymouze is referring, didn't lack in flavor and tasty food, but it sure lacked in PR: even i barely noticed the place for almost a year. related, i wonder if anyone knows the percentage of customers that actually live in the town in which a restaurant is located. i'm guessing it's not as high as some might be led to believe. unless by "ridgewood clientele" we mean "the people who eat in ridgewood", i'm not too sure i buy into the argument.. in fact, i think that almost all of the people who rave about Silver Oak don't live actually in Ridgewood, for example.

ridgewood and monctlair are desitination dining towns. I don't know if Tenafly ever was or will be, which might go to explain restaurant failures.

[Rachel Perlow]

(actually, I'm a member of the NJMLS, not GSMLS, but that's beside the point)

Listed above are a bunch of restaurants that failed/closed in Tenafly over a period of several years. I'm sure if someone did the research, they could come up with a bunch of restaurants that failed in Teaneck (without doing the research, just off the top of my head: La Posada, East Saigon, Stickey's), Cresskill (44 E Madison has been a revolving door, there was a previous incarnation of Saigon R in Cresskill that closed many years ago), Montclair (I did just a little research, as I don't go to Montclair that often: Blue Sky, Mulberry Street, Restaurant 28, to name a few), restaurants open and close in Hackensack on a regular basis. I'm sure some places have come and gone in Ridgewood as well.

What I'm saying is that restaurants open and close in every town. I think it is unfair to blame any one thing for a place closing down, even the town itself, or parking, or rent. One thing I will say is that you don't generally pass through Tenafly on your way to somewhere else. You have to mean to go there, and it really doesn't have a big enough reputation as a restaurant destination (as does Montclair and Ridgewood) for people to come here for that reason alone. Montlcair and Ridgewood also have bigger downtowns with shopping and/or theatre as other attractions.

As for Max's... their food was good and it was usually busy, but I had a major pet peeve about their service flatware. It was of a quality on par with a high school cafeteria. Thin, bendable, sharp edges. I asked the chef/owner about it, he blamed patrons stealing as a reason for not purchasing higher quality flatware. I'm not talking a need for sterling silver folks, just something decent, that didn't feel like I would scratch my lips on it. We went at least 5 times in the first couple years we lived nearby, but eventually, I just couldn't get over that issue, and the attitude that comes along with it.

[ghostrider]

The problem with Tenafly is simply that it's got a silly name. It needs similarly whmisical restaurants to attract people from other parts of Jersey.

Look at the list of names that closed. Tedious, pretentious, mundane. Who would drive to someplace that nobody knows to dine at such places?

Five Gnats Pizzeria.

Toad & Durian.

Places like that would get me onto MapPoint right quick to see where Tenafly is.

[Jason Perlow]

Sillier than Cresskill or Teaneck?

[ghostrider]

Just by a hair.

Actually I like Cresskill because I can see the Dutch root of the name. Teaneck, OTOH....

[Rachel Perlow]

Tenafly's name is also of Dutch extraction. Meaning either "of a meadow," "willow meadow" or "ten swamps," depending on the source. I prefer the meadow reference, there are large parkland tracts in the borough, not so many swamps now.

[menton1]

The problem with Tenafly is simply that it's got a silly name.  It needs similarly whmisical restaurants to attract people from other parts of Jersey.

Actually, in Northeast Bergen, Tenafly is the most recognizable name to people that are not from this area. "Near Tenafly" always gets an "Oh, OK." when describing where you live to folks not familiar with the area.

And yes, restaurants are a risky busines'; except the odds for failure in Tenafly seem higher than in the surrounding towns. In Cresskill, Samdan and Ciao Bella have been there over 10 years. Englewood has many long term restos. The only non-fast food place that has stayed open for many years in Tenafly is the resto in Clinton Inn, Christinos. (Never been, I don't go to restos claiming to be "Tuscan")

Could it be witchcraft?

[Rachel Perlow]

The only non-fast food place that has stayed open for many years in Tenafly is the resto in Clinton Inn, Christinos.  (Never been,  I don't go to restos claiming to be "Tuscan")

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That is a total fallacy. Cafe Cafe has been around for several years; how long was Max's open before it closed? You're forgetting Mr. Wok's (on the second floor, on the corner of Jay/Highwood/Piermont, nice sit down restaurant, but it does do a lot of take out/delivery, but not a "take out joint"), Japanese/Chinese, been there for years; the Chinese/Korean place (nice restaurant, not a take out joint) around the corner from Tenafly Gourmet Farm (can't find the name on yp.yahoo). Aw heck, I didn't want to use them as examples, but Charlie Browns & Friendly's have been open for years.

Maybe it means that Tenafly is not a destination town, like I said before, and that the places that remain open cater to families, not high end diners. Whatever. The towns are in such proximity around here, that you hardly notice where one ends and another begins.

Menton, Does a restaurant have to never close for it to be sucessful in your eyes? At what point is it successful? How many places have closed that you wouldn't expect to close? For example, Blue Sky in Montclair. It was acclaimed, popular, we had an eG event there after 9/11. It closed, but the reasons given were that the family wanted to move to Maine (or was it Vermont?), do we not believe them?

When a restaurant closes, does that automatically mean it failed?

[menton1]

Well, I did not mean for this to get contentious; It was intended to be on the light side. It just seems that an inordinate # of nice restos close in Tenafly. (See list in my first post) High end people are residents of the town, so high end restos should have a chance of doing well (?)

As far as your list, here are some comments:

Cafe Cafe. 7 tables. Started out as a lunch/sandwich place, morphed into better food, and then they opened Griffin's (yikes)

Charlie Browns? Friendly's? Nah. Not serious places.

Chinese/Korean/Ethnic. Yes, they persist, but they are niche restos for a particular audience. Not general appeal.

When a restaurant closes, does that automatically mean it failed?

Well, I don't know too many that would say that closure is an indicator of success...

[M.X.Hassett]

When a restaurant closes, does that automatically mean it failed?

Well, I don't know too many that would say that closure is an indicator of success...

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I think Rachel meant if a restaurant closes because an owner moves, health problems, burnout etc... not because its business plan failed or it did not have a customer base to support it. .

[Dana329]

<Actually, in Northeast Bergen, Tenafly is the most recognizable name to people that are not from this area. "Near Tenafly" always gets an "Oh, OK." when describing where you live to folks not familiar with the area. >

People know where Tenafly is? I grew up in Bergen county and I don't really know where it is-I always confuse it with Teaneck (even though I know where that is)

Now Paramus, EVERYONE knows where Paramus is!

Dana

[Jason Perlow]

Actually, people do know where Tenafly is, surprisingly. Its a historically significant town.

[Anonymouze]

<Actually, in Northeast Bergen, Tenafly is the most recognizable name to people that are not from this area.  "Near Tenafly" always gets an "Oh, OK." when describing where you live to folks not familiar with the area.  >

People know where Tenafly is?  I grew up in Bergen county and I don't really know where it is-I always confuse it with Teaneck (even though I know where that is)

Now Paramus, EVERYONE knows where Paramus is!

Dana

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Me too! I always mix up Tenafly and Teaneck. To compare prices of homes, apples to apples you can see for yourself by using:

http://www.njmls.com

I think I'll stay in my neck of the woods. Those areas seems to me to be a strange eclectic mix of "blue collar" (most of my neighbors are Doctors, Attorneys, Engineers and Private Medium to Large business owners) they also seem to have some upscale homes as well as quite a few mom & pop shops/storefronts and other commercial and light to medium industrial businesses. The one thing my town can boast is not having more than one gas station within it's confines, no industrial businesses several gorgeous golf courses (One is Private) as well as no residential street lighting, that is if I recall correctly... it is less "citified" more bucolic and woodsy.

Edited February 26, 2006 by Anonymouze (log)

[Jason Perlow]

We don't really have an "Industrial" part of town -- unless you count Piermont road, where we got a big hardware store and maybe one salvage related business, which is nowhere near anything residential -- and we most certainly don't have "blue collar" homes either, not with even the smallest places starting out at $500,000!

And we do have a golf club and golf course, but its private... I have no idea who you have to know to get in.

Steering this back to food, as Rachel says, Tenafly is no different in terms of its ability to "kill restaurants or food establishments" than any of the surrounding towns. Certainly, Cresskill has many of the same qualities, as does Teaneck, which for a while had a lot of vacant storefronts on Teaneck Road. Plenty of places fail in Englewood too, you just don't notice them as much because its a much larger town. Bergenfield also has restaurants fail pretty frequently, although we don't notice them as much because there are few places we like to go to in Bergenfield. Demarest is pretty non-existent in terms of any kind of dining.

[Rachel Perlow]

OK, I don't want this to just become an argument over which town is better or not, but just to summarize, the average price of a home currently on the market in Tenafly is about $1.5 million, with prices starting at 500,000. There is little to no industrial.

I think Stacy might be confusing Tenafly with Teaneck, Bergenfield, or Englewood. All of which have more commercial interests, and homes in more affordable price ranges, i.e.:

• Bergenfield: lowest $337,000, average 512,000
  Englewood: 300,000/1.4 mil (this town has at least two very distinct price differential areas)
  Teaneck: 325,000/561,200
  

Hmm, and just because I was curious, here are the current stats for these other very residential communities:

• Alpine: 1,049,000/avg over 5 mil.
  Closter: $475,000/1,130,000
  River Vale: 465,000/834,254
  Ridgewood: 485,000/991,000 (only one known as a restaurant destination)
  

These stats are current as of today and most are rounded off to the nearest thousand. Everyone has their unique reasons why they prefer to live in one town over another, proximity to good restaurants might be one, especially for us eGS members. But my whole point throughout this thread is that there are many reasons as well why restaurants may succeed or fail. Let's keep that in mind and not blame the town in and of itself.

Disclaimer Signoff: Rachel Perlow, Realtor at Weichert in Tenafly, NJ.