New Cafe

[bripastryguy]

I am embarking on my second business venture (I still have Sweet Karma-my pastry shop) Now I'm opening a dessert cafe City Sweets dessert bar and coffee house. the place as we are decorating it has a very city street feel: flickering lamp posts and everything. it is going to be pretty modern (black , white and stainless-only color will be the deserts)

With lots of theme and different group time slots (kid time, soap time, movie time. etc...)

The biggest dilema for me right now is the menu. I will be showcasing my large array of individual desserts plus plenty of muffins, danish, loads of cookies, biscotti.......

I want to also do composed desserts or dessert tastings. I am going to offer flavored "creme brulee" to order plus a sampler of 3. It will be counter service (order and we will bring it your table). Not expensive but not cheap. I have an excellent gelato company to compliment my desserts. I have purchased sushi hand roll cone holders (they hold 3 cones) anybody know where to get small ice cream cines (yes I can make them but I will be having high school and college kids plating so they cant be so delicate). I plan to have a small ala carte dessert menu (5 -7 items usually over runs from the pastry shop but reworked for presentation). I'm also considering dessert paninis.... I dont want to overload the place so I wanna introduce items slowly. We plan to offer a lite fare menu as well in about 2-3 months, probably offer soup right away.

Anyone have ideas? Things that are winners, no brainners? any pitfalls to stay away from. Any and all cafe dessert house advice gladly appreciated.

Edited January 30, 2006 by bripastryguy (log)

[Trishiad]

Brian! How fun!

I was just at Citizen Cake in San Francisco (checking it out for a friend) and although they have an actual restaurant the pattisserie was doing a tremendous business. $7 individual cakes, $2 sandwich cookies, even Pate D'Fruits and chocolate dipped caramels. The bread wasn't really showcased although it was there. They also had a savory tart, a cheese danish, 1 kind of muffin, and 2 kinds of croissant. You may want to check out their website for some inspiration.

Also, we drive an hour to the Bouchon Bakery monthly now for the eclairs, fruit tarts, and brioche. Each of these places is always busy and a lot of time is spent on those coffee drinks, please find yourself a great barista.

fun fun fun

[nightscotsman]

Made to order crepes, both sweet and savory, are a huge hit at the JP Patisserie. They use stand-alone irons/cookers, which aren't cheap, but easy to learn to use and impressive to watch. The markup is very nice, too.

[Pam R]

Brian - are you open yet?

[bripastryguy]

Yes, the cafe is open and sucking wind, it was not the experience I had hoped for.

The place is decorated very nice, but it is more of just a seat and serve not the dessert only concept I had in mind. A large movie theatre located next door was supposed to be the major draw of our business, it doesnt seem like they want anything after the movies. rent is getting hard to pay, employees dont give a shit, we dont know what to do

[Tweety69bird]

Brian, I'm sorry to hear that things aren't working as well as you had hoped. Don't give up though... keep on fighting! What about if you give a 10% discount, or free coffee or something to patrons who show their movie stub? I think if people believe they are gettting a better deal it might get them in the door, and then your products will keep them coming back...

[Pam R]

That's not what I was hoping you'd say! I'm sorry to hear things aren't going well.

Any plans to re-work the place?

[NhumiSD]

Made to order crepes, both sweet and savory, are a huge hit at the JP Patisserie. They use stand-alone irons/cookers, which aren't cheap, but easy to learn to use and impressive to watch. The markup is very nice, too.

←

Hi,

Iam also in the planning process for a cafe in San Diego, Cali.

Ive never used those stand alone crepe machines. How much do one of those go for ? Do you know it would work with any crepe recipe, since it is so big in size, I wonder if the crepe would break apart.

I tend to want to eat before or after watching a movie, since there is nothing to eat at the theatres really. So, I agree advertising for discounts with movie stubs is great idea.

-NhumiSD

[alanamoana]

Brian,

Sorry to hear things aren't going so well. This is a tough business. But you knew that going in. I agree with the discount with movie ticket. Also, sometimes they sell ad space on the screen to play before the movie starts. Probably too expensive though.

Do you have any sidewalk space for service? Now that the weather is better, that might be a draw. Also, I say keep it simple until you develop your customer base, then add items as the interest grows. No sense trying to be all things to all people. You'll just run yourself ragged doing that.

I hope things get better!

Alana

[K8memphis]

Brian, sorry to hear that. I love to see your name and the Sweet Karma stuff when you post on egullet. I always think, man that's cool. At least somebody can do it.

Go with your gut. Ain't no shame in saying, whoops I goofed. But I hope you can pull it out of the fire.

Take Care!

[bripastryguy]

I dont think i goofed, it just seems that the location seemed better than it is before we took over the spot. We all ready offer the free coffee deal and the movie ticket rewards, just not enough. I have done movie ads in the past but they dont work either-It's on before the movie starts and if the movie is any good-you're into, 1 1/2-2 hours later its over, Do you remember who they advertised???

We also have the side walk sign too. It seems that the little village where we are has the main events going on way down the block, we are past the movie theatre, its pretty dark at night because the town had shut down the street lamps, we complained and now they are working.

As far as the items served, it is all my offerings at Sweet Karma-

individual desserts

brownies

cookies of all shapes, sizes and flavors

coffee, capp, espresso, frozen drinks, etc...

we do a S'more splatter

Chocolate Fondue

I dont know what else to do, I think the location is the downfall

Its too small to build a real kitchen to do food, so that really isnt an option. I am hiring a good assistant pastry chef to help me in the pastry shop and we have been tossing around the idea of a prix fix dessert service. Limited seating, plated desserts along the line of Chicka licious

Any help would be appreciated. On a better note, the pastry shop is going fine and even showing signs of profit

[dejaq]

Dude,

What’s up, hey I am sorry things haven’t fired off at optimal thruster power…

I do have a theory regarding this though, although we are going into our summer months

With a plethora of high end flickers out there MI3, Miami Vice, Poseidon, Xmen ,and my brother from Krypton; I do believe that these ridiculous fuel prices are essentially acting as a “tax” on disposable incomes out there. It cost me 64.00 dollars to fill up my vehicle yesterday and I had a quarter of a tank before I filled up, that definitely puts a bite in anyone’s pocketbook.

Getting back to what may work for you Brian, is this, and I haven’t seen your dig, but let’s start with what I have seen work. When I worked a while back for this little restaurant off of Penn Ave. they used to have the Shakespeare Theater right up the street. They had a dinner pre fixe 5 course including dessert for a set price, on this you don’t have to go all out, maybe offer a bag off chips, half a sandwich and soup or salad pairing as a “pre” “quick” “bite” with signage in the window. You indicated that you don’t really have the space for core food prep, that’s OK, get situated with five very good salads, seven Herculean moderately priced sandwiches, and three killer soups, keep it simple stupid, don’t go nuts. Just make it fresh do your mise en place at the nest and ship it daily. I have seen hole in the wall canker sores fare up extremely well like this. You may also slightly modify the wavelength of your energy signature or in laymen’s terms offer a ‘catcher” “signifier” such as dipped ice cream and or gourmet gelato. Dip off some bananas or do a “5 for 5” five strawberries on a skewer dipped in chocolate, people walking down the Ave. with these goodies in hand will generate traffic for you, to be certain. Don’t get discouraged you have it within your nature to have a keen sense of business; you simply have to chase after the greenback. Patience is a virtue.

I hope this works for you…

Michael

P.S. if you need more info, back channel me and I will send you additional info including some URL’s that may be of greater assistance.

Cheers

[bripastryguy]

We asked a few people and we actually did it ourselves. WENT TO THE MOVIES!

Some just couples and some families, the cost is outrageous $30.00 per couple (movie, drink, snack) plus Yes Michael the gas prices here are about $3.25 a gallon. So who has the expendable income??? The neighborhood is upper middle class ( divided between white & Blue collar). We figured that even if we have "cook" there we can do it, my partner is like MacGyver, food is a possibility. But here is the street at a glance: me, (heading south) movies, brickoven pizza, laundry, chinese rest. across the street an upscale family style Italian place and nothing of significance. If you head down the block on my side is a travel agency then an old school Italian bakery (no competition, totally opposite ends of the spectrum), Across from that is a casual diner type restaurant that has food on the menu and specializing in a bizillion flavors of gelato and sorbet (crappy dessert choices except for theie Belgian Waffles) then a Diner, thats really it but someone is opening a breakfast lunch cafe by the train station.

So what I'm asking you intelligent, resourceful group of professionals?

Help me save City Sweets, dessert bar and coffee house

[K8memphis]

Could you do any parties there?

(I'm just brainstorming--nothing you probably haven't already thought of)

Ummm,

Give some lessons in something foodie.

Teach people how to do a chocolate tasting

Give chocolate tastings to groups!!!

Teach people how to make something on the menu.

Charge people to come behind the scenes & try their hand at making something for their group of friends who are out there gonna buy it?? Make it a gift opportunity.

Make companies buy "you're a good employee' coupons for their employess to come to your place. Got any ceo buddies in business that could use this employee perk?? Just to get the word around.

Umm, do you cater?? Could you cater goodes for an employee appreciation day?

Advertise a two for one special. (Sure give it away--where's the thump on the head smilie face?)

After school Kid parties?

Get yourself on a tour schedule--contact churches & see if they can bring a bus load over. Seniors love to do stuff like that--visit a museum or something & go get dessert somewhere.

In my little place for that little time, I sold many many more desserts when I cut them by thirds & offered 'a bite' of dessert. Assortments (of minis) go over big.

Geez that movie is expensive!

edited to say: Can you trade your goodies for radio time?? Or something?? If they answer the trivia question of the day they get a free whatever ??? Do you do b-day cakes??? Give a (mini) b-day cake away to the 5 th person that day with a photo id and the birthday for that date???

edited again---Y'know pate choux is just the sh*t (as my son would say) Umm, y'know how you make swans? Think Interactive Desserts. Well something like swans where people could pipe them or something and then while they have dessert you can bake them and make their swans to take home? Have them make chocolate boxes--poured chcoclate into a box mold and fix it up again while they eat dessert & take home the box full of something.

Now remember this is Brainstorming--just throwing stuff out there to see what sticks on the wall.

Umm, dude, weddings. Use weddings & romance somehow. The average wedding is TWENTY THOUSAND DOLLARS. Get some kick ass cool whatever for the guy to put the ring in so he can propose--like a chocolate box.

Grab for celebrations--people allocate more money exponentially when they celebrate---finish this sentence in twenty five words or less--"when people celebrate they want to do it at City Sweets because..."

Edited May 7, 2006 by K8memphis (log)

[Sugarella]

Bri, your product is NOT the problem; it's just getting people in there. I agree the company you're keeping on that block won't really help attract customers, so I think you need to look beyond the scope of what's in the immediate vicinity and don't expect to share the same customers with any of them. For me personally, after sitting through a movie for 2 hours downing a gigantic box of popcorn and enough pop to embalm small animals, the last thing I'd be in the mood for would be pastry. People are already FULL when they leave a theatre. I think you should forget about the moviegoers altogether and target other customers.

Speaking of the movie crowd....you're talking about patrons for the evenings....what's going on the rest of the day?? Do you have lunch customers stopping in? And how late are you open? I ask because many of the Toronto specialty cafes are at their busiest just after 2am.... right after the bars close. Everybody wants coffee and something decadent to eat. I know being open so late would be a giant pain in the ass, but it could sure help with revenues in the short term, even if you only tried it on weekends to start. Are there any clubs in the area within walking distance of the cafe?

First things first..... your website www.sweetkarmadesserts.com gives absolutely no indication that there is also a new cafe. Change that immediately. I don't know how close the cafe is to Sweet Karma, but have you been advertising to all of your existing customers that the new cafe is open? You already know they like your product...I'd be bombarding them with advertising for the cafe in any way you can think of. Examples could be a wall poster (visuals), giving out discount coupons to them, or even at the very least having the counter staff tell everyone. And I know money is tight now, but when it's time to re-order any of your packaging you should change it to read with both locations on it.

Sorry things aren't going well but I certainly hope you can turn this around quick. I'll see if I can think of anything else to suggest.....

[Pam R]

Sugarella asks some really good questions. And she's right - your product isn't the problem. Your desserts are gorgeous and from all the reviews, taste just as good. What else are you offering?