The Active Wine Advisor: a decision maker

[Gifted Gourmet]

article from Information Week

The Active Wine Advisor is designed to offer recommendations geared toward personal preferences depending on if consumers are "Serious, Aspiring" or "Casual" wine consumers.  "The type they like really is based on the number of taste buds you have." So in each category, software takes the shopper through a series of questions before making recommendations. Among other things, consumers can ask for taste-based wine recommendations, match the wine to the food they intend to serve it with or scan for ratings on similar wines.

Is anyone else aware of this software? Or the concept of the kiosk for the wine buyers?

[Daniel Rogov]

I never fail to be amazed at the huge quantity of absolute nonsense that one finds (a) in advertising material and (b) posted on the internet as "truth". The statement that in this press release to the effect that "The type (of wine) they like really is based on the number of taste buds you have" is a prime example of this.

The number of taste buds per square centimeter indeed is one of two major determining factors in whether one is a 'super-taster', 'normal taster' or 'non-taster' (how specifically sensitive we are to perceiving the types and numbers of taste sensations that can be imparted by a liquid or solid), but has precious little to do with our preferences for this wine or another. Likes and dislikes or, perhaps better - preferences are determined by a multitude of factors, those including past personal experience, cultural and social input (ranging from the family unit to religion and even nationality), left-and right brain functionning procedures, and even the psychological mood of the moment. I would go as far as to spectulate that if we built a list of 100 determiners of what foods/wines we prefer that the number of taste buds we have would be somewhere about 89th-95th on that list.

Ah well.....in various parts of the world at least some energy is supplied by the excrement of chickens, cows and buffaloes. I suppose we could just as easily take some of this p.r. nonsense and find a way use them to energize if not our automobiles at least our wrist watches.

[Peter Conway]

article from Information Week

The Active Wine Advisor is designed to offer recommendations geared toward personal preferences depending on if consumers are "Serious, Aspiring" or "Casual" wine consumers.  "The type they like really is based on the number of taste buds you have." So in each category, software takes the shopper through a series of questions before making recommendations. Among other things, consumers can ask for taste-based wine recommendations, match the wine to the food they intend to serve it with or scan for ratings on similar wines.

Is anyone else aware of this software? Or the concept of the kiosk for the wine buyers?

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I am in the computer software business and I did see an article about this on Tech Web.

While the idea is considerate and may work to some degree for the indiscriminate wine buyer who is buying something like Franzia by the box. They might find something different that they like.

Judgement in buying and recomending wine is much to subjective and depends on many more factors than can be properly weighted by current computer software.

It will end up with results like I get from Amazon. Putting Riedel glasses on my wish list seems to indicate that I would be interested in the darndest things.

Also retailers that embrace this technology will probably use it to push wine that may in theory be what the customer is looking for but won't like because the wine is simply badly produced.

I am with Dan and take this news with a chuckle. These unimaginative impersonal retailers will just have to go back to discounting.

[JohnL]

The concept and goals are good the execution is problematic.

I am all for demystifying wine.

For many years the wine world was like an exclusive club. The trade and the press conspired to keep wine enshrouded in fog--they made and sold a lot of befuddled consumers a lot of poorly made wine.

Things are changing!

The $64,000 question is: What's in the bottle?

At best, too many labels are utterly useless in informing consumers and at worst, many actually add to the confusion.

All consumers are interested in some basics: white or red, light, medium or full bodied, what grapes are used, sweetness or dryness etc.

Next, is some idea of what the wine tastes like.

A lot of folks in the wine business like to push the notion that wine must be approached from a totally "subjective" perspective. The dirty little secret is much about wine is "objective"--that is, a trained taster can convey elements about what a wine tastes like in clear language that anyone can understand.

The wine's basic flavor profile, if you will.

Yes, in the end, this can only go so far--there is a lot of subjectivity involved in one's determination of what they ultimately like or dislike. but it can go a long way toward helping a consumer in making a selection to try and increases the odds that the consumer will like the bottle they select.

I, for one, am amazed at how many people, especially professionals are pushing the notion that wine can not be objectively described or its attributes quantified--this in the face of reams of study--is Peynaud wrong?

The whole Master of Wine program (and myriad other education programs) is based upon the idea that wine is not some mystical experience.

I have no problem with the "mystical" aspect either. As long as it is in proper perspective. The glass of simple chianti enjoyed on a balcony in Tuscany can be magical while that same wine drunk with a slice of mediocre pizza in one's kitchen is an entirely different sensation. But the basics as to what that chianti's flavor profile is do not change.

As for the "active wine advisor" this seems to me to be a somewhat gimmicky means of conveying some basic information that will help consumers make a purchase decision. If it is fun and easy to use and provides accurate information-- great!

I suspect, however, that there is more "gimmick" at play here. In agreement with Daniel's comments re the nonsense about taste buds, I too was put off by the notion that consumers can be categorized by the number of taste buds they possess.

Thus, what seems to be a noble concept is based upon some very faulty science.

If supermarkets sell enough wine, then they should be able to pay adequately trained salespersons.

This smacks of a means to avoid some expense rather than a way of actually helping people buy wine.

[Rebel Rose]

I suppose we could just as easily take some of this p.r. nonsense and find a way use them to energize if not our automobiles at least our wrist watches.

Melissa (Gifted Gourmet) has an amazing knack for finding all the breaking odd and interesting news on food and wine. I get a digest of newslinks on wine each morning, and I haven't seen this one yet! Thanks for keeping us on our toes, Mel.

I agree with Peter and Daniel. What bunk. I have a fair amount of taste buds, but when people ask me what my favorite wine is, or my favorite producer, I can only wave my hands about and say something inane like, "I have a wine wardrobe to choose from." I like deeper reds in winter, grassy whites in summer, cabernet with a murder mystery, pinot noir and sangiovese with most dishes, briary-peppery zinfandels at a barbecue.

I guess they left out the anarchist category.

[Gifted Gourmet]

Melissa (Gifted Gourmet) has an amazing knack for finding all the breaking odd and interesting news on food and wine. 

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They don't call me Google Gourmet for nothing, you realize ...

Glad to bring you the latest trivia, Rebel Rose ... Say, isn't that Giuseppe Verdi opera called La Triviata?

Now back to counting my tastebuds for wine distinctions .. carry on ...

[MaxH]

[Wine-demystification bibliography appears at the end.]

Melissa I agree, we’re all in your debt.

It’s hard for me to imagine a piece of software giving reliable personal wine recommendations, since that requires getting to know your tastes -- but this has been available (for centuries) from good local wine merchants if you have them.

However, it’s easy to imagine people selling software that promises to do that. Many of you can remember (before about the 1980s) when computers were much rarer, much more expensive, and still had a larger-than-life mystique. This mystique was early exploited to make mechanistic advice look authoritative: The Computer Said It, and The Computer is awesome. Here’s an incident I know first-hand. When I was a teenager (when time-shared computers were first showing up in schools, with local terminals) a friend at Berkeley High School said that well-meaning staffers were offering students occupational guidance By Computer. (This friend did volunteer computer support, and had the run of The Computer.) We looked at this small custom software program and it was simplistic, it asked some questions and matched up a simple set of career suggestions, as one might do on paper, but faster -- and Authoritative Looking. Unfortunately, students and counselors seemed to take this novel tool much too seriously. The Computer Says I am suited for X, so it must be true. So we got to work. Soon the career recommendations began including random odd suggestions -- transplant donor, pencil, etc. -- with the serious ones. Then late in the user session it would increasingly make spelling mistakes and, as it were, slur its speech. Finally it would degenerate to nonsense. It stayed in use for some time that way, but people looked on it differently, maybe even as imperfect as humanity, or more so. (There’s demystification for you.)

Most everyone in the wine industry labors to de-mystify wine (especially in places like US where wine is not a widespread tradition), to reduce barriers and increase demand. There’s also been a continuum of wine-enthusiastic writers with humor and wit and anecdotes. I listed below some very well known, entry-level wine books pre-1980, most of them published in the US. (I am not a wine-book expert. I have posted all of these before. I’ve posted wine info sources publicly online for 20-some years for what it’s worth. The first public Internet wine-forum posting still public, incidentally, was affordable red-wine suggestions, in 1982.) For anyone interested, these books have been steadily available new or used (search today by ISBN or title at amazon.com or other online sellers). One of the best, very useful even now, is the oldest, Saintsbury (1920). The list illustrates longtime efforts at demystification. Mystique is inherent in wine, in the eye of the newcomer. The wine world is thousands of years old, and complex. Like art, or real estate, or the stock market, or human nature. It takes time to learn, though there are aids, including those below and others. Frustration with this reality -- the yearning to short-cut the learning -- is part of human nature too.

Your health! -- Max

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"I hope [this] book will stimulate -- especially in the younger generation -- a wider appreciation of wine's many virtues. A knowledge of wines should be a part of everyone's education. To walk about with an Arts degree and be ignorant of wine is incongruous. I could put up strong arguments for including wine in the curriculum of all [uS] high schools and colleges." (Blake Ozias, 1966)

George Sainstsbury, Notes on a Cellar-Book. 1920. Frequently reprinted with very minor changes; 14th edition 1978. ISBN 0831764503

Schoonmaker and Marvel, American Wines, Duell, Sloan and Pearce (New York), 1941.

John Melville, Guide to California Wines, 1955, 1960, 1968, 1972.

Blake Ozias, All About Wine, 1966 and 1973. ISBN 0690000944.

H. W. Yoxall, The Wines of Burgundy, 1968 [1974 p'back], ISBN 0140462007, and 1978, ISBN 0812860918. Simple introduction to a complex topic (the history and geography haven’t changed, at least) but Yoxall is known for wry humor, and also wrote the preface to the 1978 reissue of Saintsbury.

Alexis Bespaloff, Guide to Inexpensive Wines, 1973. “SBN” 671215027.

Bob Thompson and Hugh Johnson, The California Wine Book, 1976, ISBN 0688030874. Penetrating snapshot, a landmark in its day -- like Schoonmaker and Marvel in the 1940s, Melville in the 1950s, the UC/Sotheby Book of California Wine in the 1980s. Also if I remember, the food selection of the Book-of-the-Month Club.

[JohnL]

article from Information Week

The Active Wine Advisor is designed to offer recommendations geared toward personal preferences depending on if consumers are "Serious, Aspiring" or "Casual" wine consumers.  "The type they like really is based on the number of taste buds you have." So in each category, software takes the shopper through a series of questions before making recommendations. Among other things, consumers can ask for taste-based wine recommendations, match the wine to the food they intend to serve it with or scan for ratings on similar wines.

Is anyone else aware of this software? Or the concept of the kiosk for the wine buyers?

←

I think many of us are missing the point of this endeavor.

Aside from the nonsense regarding taste buds this is really an attempt to

provide assistance to customers of supermarkets where wine is sold and where there are no sales persons available to assist these folks.

As I see it, there is nothing wrong with taking a data base of wine inventory and categorizing it by flavor profile enabling consumers to input some of their requirements and receiving "recommendations" that may meet thier needs.

Suggesting to an average consumer looking for a bottle of wine to enjoy with their lamb chops, that they need to read a book or consult an "expert" is indicative of a major problem with wine today (and yesterday).

Can you imagine a butcher telling you you need to read a book on meat before you can appreciate your lamb chops?

Many people do not want to "learn" about wine, beyond some basic knowledge-- and one need not have to know much about wine to enjoy it.

If the wine industry would simply do more to make wine more accessable they would sell more.

How:

Easy to read labels with basic information.

Promote and sell wines based upon their flavor profiles.

What is so problematic about noting that Burgundy is made from Pinot Noir or Chardonnay Grapes on the label?

To most people this is more important than noting that Chambertin is a grand cru.

Tell folks that Sancerre is sauvignon blanc etc.

A good sign is I see that there is a movement in this direction underway--about time!!!!

People have a pretty good idea what kind of wine they might like so why not provie them with information that tells them which specific wines they should consider. Without resorting to winespeak--how about some simple basic easy to understand language that accurately describes wine?

If done well, the info kiosk could be more consumer friendly and encourage more wine buying than many of the wine salespeople I have run into in shops lately. Though remember--they are talking supermarkets here not wine shops.

Guess what--if this is done and done well--many people will move beyond the kiosk and maybe read a book about wine or take a class or engage the owner of a local wine shop.

So what's so wrong about someone punching in Lamb Chops and getting a read out of some wines available that would work with --Lamb Chops. Along with some additional info about the wines--people could read it and learn a bit or ignore it and still have a decent wine food experience.

sounds like a good idea to me.

(though that stuff about tastebuds is really troublesome)

[MaxH]

I think many of us are missing the point of this endeavor.

Aside from the nonsense regarding taste buds this is really an attempt to

provide assistance to customers of supermarkets where wine is sold and where there are no sales persons available to assist these folks.

That's a good point. (I missed the link earlier, and couldn't find the full article, so I was going by the quotation posted above.)

Most things to help demystify wine are all to the good, in my opinion.

[JohnL]

I think many of us are missing the point of this endeavor.

Aside from the nonsense regarding taste buds this is really an attempt to

provide assistance to customers of supermarkets where wine is sold and where there are no sales persons available to assist these folks.

That's a good point. (I missed the link earlier, and couldn't find the full article, so I was going by the quotation posted above.)

Most things to help demystify wine are all to the good, in my opinion.

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Max!

The troubling thing is--often these atempts to demystify wine often end up adding to the confusion.

(see the part about tastebuds).

The truth is, most people would like to enjoy wine at a very basic level.

If the industry can make the whole experience easier and more accessible then more people will be comfortable with wine and more people will want to learn more about it.

This kiosk idea may be a good one--maybe not.

I have mixed thoughts about wine being sold in supermarkets but it really does make sense--if you can pick up your lamb chops and beer or soda or sparkling water why not have the option of a nice wine available there too?

It also makes sense that in a supermarket you are not going to get access to a knowledgeable wine salesperson (you probably aren't going to find a good butcher either).

In a perfect world (well maybe my perfect world) every street would have a great little wine shop

a terriffic butcher and baker and......ok i can dream can't I?

[Daniel Rogov]

I'm all for the demystification of wine (and the arts and mathematics and physics and medicine and economics) but I must remind us once again that the true understanding of any human endeavor depends on the ability to describe and state what we want and that involves language specific to that field. Not everyone has to be an expert but, comparing it to the question of "would your butcher suggest turning to an expert about your lamb chops" - darned right he would if you didn't know how to cook lamb chops. His recommendation would either be to a good cookbook or to someone like himself who might give you the right hints.

[Gifted Gourmet]

It also makes sense that in a supermarket you are not going to get access to a knowledgeable wine salesperson (you probably aren't going to find a good butcher either).

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The people who work in grocery stores rarely know much about their wine departments or are not available when people come in late in the day or evening .. with this wine kiosk idea, it will provide assistance at all hours of the day ... or so I assume ...