Define "Wholesome"

[Chris Amirault]

While I was reading this Cornish pasties thread, I saw this quotation from the Independent article:

[T]he Cornish pasty is popular because it is a "wholesome, feelgood" food. Its portability has also helped in an increasingly busy world[.]

"[F]eelgood," I got. But "wholesome"? I was surprised to see that, and wondered what it meant in that context (or in the context of Cornish miners heading off to work). Then I started wondering what "wholesome" would mean around here. It seems a different word than, say, "healthy" or "hearty." Is it a little bit of both?

[OnigiriFB]

Wholesome to me conotates that the dish is something I would want to feed growing children. You may be right in that it is a combination of heathy and hearty.

[Pontormo]

Now that I know what exactly is printed on that apron of yours and have had time to ponder all its implications, I am not sure how to explain the word "wholesome" to you, Chris!

[Chris Amirault]

Ahem. Ok, lest we stray into the (off-)topic of Yoko Ono's ass, let me try again. What foods would be considered "wholesome"? There are obvious ones (chicken soup comes to mind), but what about less likely candidates? Roast beef? A BLT?

What makes something wholesome? What makes something not wholesome? Are mashed potatoes wholesome, but fries not?

[chefcyn]

One definition of the word is "conducive to or characteristic of physical or moral well-being" which, when referring to food, should lean more toward "healthy" than "hearty necessarily--"hearty" usually implies lots of meat and fat, which is not particularly healthy ion general, though these two definitions may seem otherwise:

" providing abundant nourishment; "a hearty meal"; "good solid food"; "ate a substantial breakfast"; "four square meals a day"

endowed with or exhibiting great bodily or mental health; "a hearty glow of health"

To me, personally, when I think hearty, I think beef stew. When I think of wholesome, I think of wholegrain bread.

[OnigiriFB]

I was actually thinking about this but couldn't come up with anything when I first posted.

wholesome breakfast - granola, oatmeal , muslix, yogurt, etc

unwholesome breakfast - lucky charms (I hate this one the most) cereal, breakfast "desserts", soda (I know way too many people who think it's natural to drink soda right after waking up *shudder*)

wholesome lunch - turkey sandwich on wheat bread, apple, cookie or vegetable beef soup with cheese and crackers

unwholesome lunch - mcd's, vendo machine "food"

wholesome dinner - rice, stirfry veggies and protein, miso soup

unwholesome dinner - kraft mac&cheese and frozen chicken nuggets.

Ok so seems a little dietish but I wouldn't have a problem serving this menu to growing children.

[Chris Amirault]

OnigirFB, you're great, but this wholesome day's food --

wholesome breakfast - granola, oatmeal , muslix, yogurt, etc

wholesome lunch - turkey sandwich on wheat bread, apple, cookie or vegetable beef soup with cheese and crackers

wholesome dinner - rice, stirfry veggies and protein, miso soup

←

-- um... blech. Give me my Cornish pasties and a couple of pints!

[OnigiriFB]

OnigirFB, you're great, but this wholesome day's food --

wholesome breakfast - granola, oatmeal , muslix, yogurt, etc

wholesome lunch - turkey sandwich on wheat bread, apple, cookie or vegetable beef soup with cheese and crackers

wholesome dinner - rice, stirfry veggies and protein, miso soup

←

-- um... blech. Give me my Cornish pasties and a couple of pints!

←

Er thats kinda what I eat in a typical day. Well ok not lunch wise. Usually I just bring whatever leftovers I have from last nights dinner.

I would feel comfortable feeding this to children. Chris... since your a big kid now of course you can have Cornish pasties and a couple of pints. I'm not sure though does a couple of pints qualify for wholesome? I guess... hrm it is made out of grains...

[Pan]

Moderate consumption of alcohol seems to be healthful for many people.

[Zucchini Mama]

This is a good question, since I imagine people's connotative associations of the word "wholesome" will differ considerably based on age and culture. The denotative meaning seems to me to be food that is home made, created from fresh unprocessed ingredients and good for you in a "stick to the ribs" kind of way. The word has become overused in the advertising industry to describe food (often over-processed breakfast cereal) that you should feel obliged to buy for your family.

In my imagination I immediately associate the word wholesome with a tanned healthy farm wife serving a big family dinner. I think of those idealist paintings of socialist workers in Germany. I think of the foods and the cooks that make you feel deeply satisfied and taken care of. Fresh air, grain dust, harvest sunsets, and food that is well-earned after a hard day's work. There is an element of nostalgia associated with this word, as if it's something we packed in a suitcase that got lost along the way and every now and then we yearn for.

What's the stuff Orphan Annie used to drink? Ovaltine. A nice wholesome bedtime treat made with whole milk.

Okay, that was my reverie for the afternoon, now I'd better get back to the mines.

[Chris Amirault]

The denotative meaning seems to me to be food that is home made, created from fresh unprocessed ingredients and good for you in a "stick to the ribs" kind of way.

←

Yes -- stick to the ribs -- that's what I think of when I think of wholesome.

Okay, that was my reverie for the afternoon, now I'd better get back to the mines.

←

Bring a few pasties, Zuke!

[Jason Perlow]

Freakin academics.

[jsolomon]

I generally don't add "stick to your ribs" as a necessary condition for wholesome. However, prepared from scratch, taking time, requiring many steps, and prepared with love are my general requirements for wholesome.

Wholesome food balms the soul and girds the world-weary against the travails of returning to their anathema functions in the world.

Wholesome food gives folks the strength to do what needs to be done. Heavens, it's tasty and expeditious.

[jsolomon]

Freakin academics.

←

How else are we supposed to make other academics? Once made, we prop them up with wholesome food, and lather, rinse, repeat.

[Pontormo]

Ahem. Ok, lest we stray into the (off-)topic of Yoko Ono's ass, let me try again. What foods would be considered "wholesome"? There are obvious ones (chicken soup comes to mind), but what about less likely candidates? Roast beef? A BLT?

What makes something wholesome? What makes something not wholesome? Are mashed potatoes wholesome, but fries not?

←

Gotcha, Chris. Just couldn't resist...especially since the thread that inspired your question also discusses buns, steamed and otherwise.

Me, I would never use the word "wholesome" to describe pasties, even the Cornish ones . I know opinions are changing about the consumption of lard, but even so, they strike me as more filling & durable than nutritious. "Hearty," definitely, but "hearty" doesn't mean "wholesome" to me either.

The word "wholesome" strikes me as having homey connotations: the Mom or Pa holding up a steaming plate of warm, comforting food that is Good For You.

However, the former terms of this image are more important than the latter. In that respect Cornish pasties are relevant. I am guessing that the people who eat them in Minnesota ate them when children and the family tradition hearkens back to roots in the Mother/Fatherland far, far away...or long, long ago if you're a software engineer living in Cornwall.

Also, if we think of your apron and Ono as they relate to food and the music scene of the 60s-70s, Judy Collins strumming an autoharp, singing "I always cook with honey" would be wholesome even though honey isn't necessarily all that good for you. It's in home-baked whole wheat bread (see post above) cooling on the table with a yellow cotton tablecloth that's faded after all those times it was hung out on the clothesline in the back yard out in the country.

Mike Jagger, holding the microphone down low to the stage and mouthing "Brown Sugar" so that you almost taste the lips jutting forward, touching on the "B" and parting on the "OOw"?

Not so wholesome.

[mizducky]

Wholesome food gives folks the strength to do what needs to be done.  Heavens, it's tasty and expeditious.

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Heh. A most apropos quote. "Wholesome" as a concept is definitely a bit hard to nail down, but I'd say a good rule of thumb is, if you could imagine the residents of Lake Wobegone eating it, especially at a church supper, it probably qualifies as wholesome. At least by American food-mythos standards.

[jgarner53]

I'd say a good rule of thumb is, if you could imagine the residents of Lake Wobegone eating it, especially at a church supper, it probably qualifies as wholesome.

So, then, that would mean that jello molds are wholesome?

[mizducky]

I'd say a good rule of thumb is, if you could imagine the residents of Lake Wobegone eating it, especially at a church supper, it probably qualifies as wholesome.

So, then, that would mean that jello molds are wholesome?

←

When served by a wholesome Lutheran church lady, they are.

(Maybe this indicates my feelings of cynicism about such fuzzy terms as "wholesome". I guess I think such terms are more about psychology and sociology than about the actual quality of the food.)

[Zucchini Mama]

Well, if you want to be academic:

There's wholesome pasties

and then there's unwholesome(?) pasties

Come up and see my pasties sometime!

Edited to add this quote from the cornwall-online website:

"Tradition has it that the original pasties contained meat and vegetables in one end and jam or fruit in the other end, in order to give the hard-working men 'two courses'. Cornish housewives also marked their husband's initials on the left-hand side of the pastry casing, in order to avoid confusion at lunchtime. This was particularly useful when a miner wished to save a 'corner' of his pasty until later, or if he wanted to leave a corner for one of the 'Knockers'. The Knockers were the mischievous 'little people' of the mines, who were believed by the miners to cause all manner of misfortune, unless they were placated with a small amount of food, after which they could prove to be a source of good luck."

Edited January 11, 2006 by Zucchini Mama (log)

[anzu]

Just asking questions aloud here...

- Something is 'wholesome' when it is meant to be 'good for you' due to a (perceived) lack of excess fat, lack of excess sugar, heck simply a lack of excess anything?

- On top of that, it has to be within the (perceived) traditions of your culture?

Taking the Cornish pasty example, the pastry is not really going to be all that healthy when taking the amount of fat required to make it into consideration, but then it's baked, so the fat is less obviously present - is it this that makes it 'wholesome'?

Compare samosas: pastry outside, vegetable filling, so far it is surely as 'wholesome' as a Cornish pasty. But somehow the prep. method of deep frying them moves them out of the category considered 'wholesome'?

Not sure - if fried properly - that they would actually contain any more fat than a Cornish pasty.

(Having made 'fake' samosas the other day using shortcrust pastry using half ghee and half butter, and baking them in the oven, I'm actually wondering whether regular fried samosas might actually contain less fat).

Re the lack of excess in general:

let's say oatmeal is 'wholesome'. Does it stay 'wholesome' if you eat several large bowlfuls of it filled to the brim and are only with great difficulty able to waddle away from the breakfast table having completed your enormous meal? (a foodwise fairly traumatic stay at a friend's place during childhood comes to mind here).

Re it being within your 'cultural traditions':

is pho, for example, or bebimbap, or Chinese rice porridge categorized as 'wholesome'? If not, why on earth not?

[daniellewiley]

My best friend read some book that breaks up all food into green light, yellow light and red light food.

Green light is anything you can eat in unlimited amounts. These are nutritious foods - fruits, veggies, certain proteins (like, not hot dogs)

Yellow light is anything you can eat in moderation - fries, ice cream, hot dogs, etc.

Red light is something with zero nutritional value. These are once in a while things like gummy bears, fruit punch, etc.

I think wholesome is anything green light. Honestly, I'd probably call pasties green light (aka wholesome), b/c if Dylan wanted to eat 2 or 3 of them, I wouldn't stop her. Better than eating a bag of jelly beans.

[Zucchini Mama]

Just asking questions aloud here...

- Something is 'wholesome' when it is meant to be 'good for you' due to a (perceived) lack of excess fat, lack of excess sugar, heck simply a lack of excess anything?

- On top of that, it has to be within the (perceived) traditions of your culture?

Taking the Cornish pasty example, the pastry is not really going to be all that healthy when taking the amount of fat required to make it into consideration, but then it's baked, so the fat is less obviously present - is it this that makes it 'wholesome'?

Compare samosas: pastry outside, vegetable filling, so far it is surely as 'wholesome' as a Cornish pasty. But somehow the prep. method of deep frying them moves them out of the category considered 'wholesome'?

Not sure - if fried properly - that they would actually contain any more fat than a Cornish pasty.

(Having made 'fake' samosas the other day using shortcrust pastry using half ghee and half butter, and baking them in the oven, I'm actually wondering whether regular fried samosas might actually contain less fat).

Re the lack of excess in general:

let's say oatmeal is 'wholesome'. Does it stay 'wholesome' if you eat several large bowlfuls of it filled to the brim and are only with great difficulty able to waddle away from the breakfast table having completed your enormous meal? (a foodwise fairly traumatic stay at a friend's place during childhood comes to mind here).

Re it being within your 'cultural traditions':

is pho, for example, or bebimbap, or Chinese rice porridge categorized as 'wholesome'? If not, why on earth not?

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Yes, I am asking myself the same questions. There is a health food cafe in Vancouver that sells baked samosas filled with tofu, veggies and rice. When it comes right down to it, I bet there is just as much oil in them as in the traditional ones sold in the local Punjabi market. (Especially as the tofu itself is fried.)

As for cultural, even genetic differences, I know a woman of Japanese Canadian Heritage who went to school at a time when the Canadian government gave each school child a glass of cow's milk at lunch time. Every time she drank it, she threw up because she was lactose intolerant. The teachers would get angry with her and make her drink the same thing again the next day. So much for wholesome. That's why each part of the food industry tends to hire dieticians that promote its ingredients as healthy: i.e. eggs, dairy, beef, etc. I think instead of coming up with one diet plan that fits all, we need to be aware of the way food fits into people's history, lifestyle and culture. My mother had the Canada Food Guide taped to the fridge, but I always was suspicious of what it told me I was "supposed" to eat.

As a mother, it's very hard to discern what is and isn't wholesome some times. The grocery store can be like a mine field these days. One always has to read the fine print. Also, these days foods with less ingredients seem to cost a lot more money.

[JCD]

I kinda think anything you gather (in the wild or from your garden) and prepare yourself to be a partial definition of wholesome. You use your "whole" self to do so--from wrenching mussels off a rock or gathering mushrooms to planting and harvesting your own produce. Makes you feel warm all over because the experience is all encompassing. I feel really sorry for these small children I see poking at the plastic packaging in supermarkets with such curiosity but in such disconnect from their own need to eat. Sorry, pet peeve.

Edited January 12, 2006 by JCD (log)

[Pan]

What if the "food" I was gathering turned out to be toadstools?

On a more serious note, if I gathered clams and you then fried them in tremendous amounts of butter, they might taste good, but would you still consider them wholesome? What if you milked the cow and made the butter yourself.

Edited January 12, 2006 by Pan (log)

[JCD]

Pan--anything is good in moderation. Granted, mushroom picking was perhaps not a good example. To me, if it takes some extra effort or a cumulative dose of exercise to produce the food, then perhaps you can have that extra fried clam (and it will still be somewhat 'wholesome') because you will be getting that exercise or exerting that effort again should you enjoy the food..... and that's a good and wholesome (whole body) thing.

Pan I notice you are an east coast forager, I certainly do miss what I could gather back there. They say everything is bigger on the west coast, and I agree, but the foraging for greens does not beat the east coast, only foraging for fungi (such as boletus, matsutake, chantarelles black and gold, morels...... oh, but I do miss the fiddleheads and milkweed)......

Edited January 12, 2006 by JCD (log)