Trois Etoiles A Paris... Reprise

[ulterior epicure]

It's me again - the one who started the first Trois Etoile En Paris... string...

Well, it seems that I will be in Paris in two weeks for a brief long "weekend." One lunch spot open on a Friday... Paris has a chance to redeem itself. I'm opening the floor for suggestions/updates.

I know that the Bristol has been highly recommended by all. I'm also curious about Ledoyen, Le Grand Vefor, Pre Catalan (although I have no idea how to get out there),Table JR and Jamin...

Obliged much.

U.E.

[John Talbott]

Pre Catalan (although I have no idea how to get out there),

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Easy, cab if raining or metro and walk if it's nice weather.

As for your choice, after hearing Felice talk of her meal there last week and my experience with Eric Frechon, I'd support le Bristol.

[ulterior epicure]

John.

Thanks ... which metro?

U.E.

[Mayur]

John.

Thanks ... which metro? 

U.E.

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Porte de Maillot is probably closest. It's really easy to get to; remember than Parisian distances are small.

I too will recommend Le Bristol. Pre Catalan is nice, but better in summer. Also, have you considered L'Ambroisie?

[ulterior epicure]

1. Thanks for the Porte Maillot info.

2. Yes, yes, everyone is pointing me in the direction of Le Bristol. Here

are my hesitations (feel free, anyone, to address them): I know I shouldn't judge a restaurant "by its cover," but it looked kind of stuffy and classic/traditional in a "frumpy" way... I'v found that I have little patience and gastronomic pleasure in "traditional French" cuisine. As I had mentioned in the earlier string, I've seen enough 1/3 starch, 1/3 veg, 2/3 meat with sauce on a round plate. While I don't need culinary pyrotechnics (cum el Bulli/Alinea) to keep me pleased, I do like to meet the more innovative side of the culinary world. Le Bristol doesn't seem to be able to offer that (same with the Grand Vefour???), from what I've heard and read... that's why I've looked to the likes of Pre Catalan, Table JR, and Jamin for this coming visit... For example, I found the food at Carre des Feuillants infinitely more pleasing than at Le Cinq; Gaig and Can Fabes exceedingly more exciting than Ca l'Isidre; the Avenues much more gastronomically eye-opening than Everest/Charlie Trotters, Jean Georges more than Daniel... and so on... Based on this... any recommendations in Paris? I've heard Apicius to be promising as well as Le Meurice (by the way, can anyone direct me to a string on either?).

3. L'Ambroisie, I fear, is a tad bit out of my budget at this point... I'll be dining alone and would rather not go bust sans ami/l'amour...

U.E.

Edited November 13, 2005 by ulterior epicure (log)

[John Talbott]

I've heard Apicius to be promising as well as Le Meurice (by the way, can anyone direct me to a string on either?).

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There are several comments scattered about but one thread is devoted to le Meurice.

As for the Metro, my sainted wife Colette favors taking the 244 bus from the Porte Maillol to get a bit closer, but it is only 2.5 km or so as Mayur points out. I too think that the Bois restaurants are better in the summer but we had a wonderful meal on a bright sunny day in January at the Pavillion des Princes where the view overlooking the lake and fields was stunning.

[molto e]

2. Yes, yes, everyone is pointing me in the direction of Le Bristol.  Here

    are my hesitations (feel free, anyone, to address them): I know I shouldn't judge a restaurant "by its cover," but it looked kind of stuffy and classic/traditional in a "frumpy" way... I'v found that I have little patience and gastronomic pleasure in "traditional French" cuisine.  As I had mentioned in the earlier string, I've seen enough 1/3 starch, 1/3 veg, 2/3 meat with sauce on a round plate.  While I don't need culinary pyrotechnics (cum el Bulli/Alinea) to keep me pleased, I do like to meet the more innovative side of the culinary world.  Le Bristol doesn't seem to be able to offer that (same with the Grand Vefour???), from what I've heard and read... that's why I've looked to the likes of Pre Catalan, Table JR, and Jamin for this coming visit...

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UE,

I do not agree with your take on Le Bristol. The winter room's decor is different than the summer room, but that should not effect your meal. I do not feel that Frechon cooks in a strictly tradional manner. I am not sure why you would have Jamin on your list based on your concerns. I loved Jamin very solid, but the room is to your description so if that bothers you that is not the place for you. I felt the food at Jamin was more traditional than Le Bristol, but I would highly recommend both of them. Le Meurice seems to be in the style of cooking that you are looking for so that may be the best bet for you.

Good Eating,

Molto E

[ulterior epicure]

Hmmm...

Lots to think about...

To be sure, I've never actually seen Jamin's space, so I can't say. I have seen the Bristol's "Winter Garden" - if it's the ovalish room directly across from the front door?

Yes, Le Meurice has popped up on my radar, but I've been hearing mixed reviews? Any recent visiters out there?

What's Lassere all about?

Thanks for putting up with too many question from a Parisien "newby!"

The Ulterior Epicure

Edited November 13, 2005 by ulterior epicure (log)

[Mayur]

Hmmm...

Lots to think about...

To be sure, I've never actually seen Jamin's space, so I can't say.  I have seen the Bristol's "Winter Garden" - if it's the ovalish room directly across from the front door?

Yes. It does seem like it has a goldfish-bowl quality from the outside, but it works surprisingly well once you're in it.

I will second what Molto said about the food at Le Bristol. It is somewhat traditional compared to certain other high-wire acts, but not really so stuffy. To use a familiar example, I would rate it as somewhat more playful/experimental than Daniel. Note that Pre Catalan is certainly no more experimental at that.

Seriously, if you want a properly wild-and-wacky experience, it seems like you should go for Pierre Gagnaire, which is at the high end of experimentation and adventurousness for Paris. I haven't been there, but that is its reputation, and it continues to draw rave reviews.

Yes, Le Meurice has popped up on my radar, but I've been hearing mixed reviews?  Any recent visiters out there?

Sent my girlfriend there on this last trip to Paris (for lunch), and she said it was great: Not as good as Le Bristol in her estimation, but only a shade less impressive. Although again, judging from the menus (and what she ate), it's not really significantly more experimental than Le Bristol.

What's Lassere all about?

It's a Parisian institution. Haven't been there in about 15 years; some of the most over-the-top service ever, very traditional food. Probably not what you're looking for if you want cutting edge, though.

[robert brown]

About Laserre, it has been awhile, but less than 15 years. It's been a has-been for a long time. I would forget it.

[ulterior epicure]

I will second what Molto said about the food at Le Bristol. It is somewhat traditional compared to certain other high-wire acts, but not really so stuffy. To use a familiar example, I would rate it as somewhat more playful/experimental than Daniel. Note that Pre Catalan is certainly no more experimental at that.

Great to know... yeah, I fear even Le Bristol is a tad more traditional than I like. I also remember seeing a copy of their lunch menu recently and nothing "read" appealing to me... although certainly that might be making the same "judging a book..." mistake that I might be making with regards to the dining room...

Seriously, if you want a properly wild-and-wacky experience, it seems like you should go for Pierre Gagnaire, which is at the high end of experimentation and adventurousness for Paris.

While it may be a high-wire act, it might be a little too "lofty" for my budget on this trip... sigh... perhaps one day. Anyone out there want to sponsor me?

Sent my girlfriend there (Le Meurice) on this last trip to Paris (for lunch), and she said it was great: Not as good as Le Bristol in her estimation, but only a shade less impressive. Although again, judging from the menus (and what she ate), it's not really significantly more experimental than Le Bristol.

Yeah, it seems that Le Meurice and Le Bristol are "twins" in my mind... they seem of the same bent. Of course, this statement may be quite controversial and cause much commotion amongst the more experienced out there...

U.E.

[molto e]

Great to know... yeah, I fear even Le Bristol is a tad more traditional than I like. I also remember seeing a copy of their lunch menu recently and nothing "read" appealing to me... although certainly that might be making the same "judging a book..." mistake that I might be making with regards to the dining room..

Yeah, it seems that Le Meurice and Le Bristol are "twins" in my mind... they seem of the same bent. Of course, this statement may be quite controversial and cause much commotion amongst the more experienced out there...

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UE,

You really must be tough, I can not imagine looking at the menu and not finding something to eat.

http://www.lebristolparis.com/default.htm

Good luck with your choice,

Molto E

[ulterior epicure]

Molto E.

Sorry... I should clarify - I was only considering the lunch menu. I don't doubt that their a la carte would definitely offer pleny of pleasers.

U.E.

[vinobiondo]

Molto E.

Sorry... I should clarify - I was only considering the lunch menu.  I don't doubt that their a la carte would definitely offer pleny of pleasers.

U.E.

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I had a pair of very, very good lunches at Le Pre Catalan and Le Grand Vefour back in April. I would put both among the 10 best meals I've ever eaten, and I've been enough places to know. I think Pre Catalan is slightly more experimental (and significantly more food), but Le Grand Vefour was a better deal. Pre Catalan is more romantic and probably best done with a significant other. If I were dining alone and had the chance to return to one or the other, I'd probably go to Grand Vefour ... unless I felt really, really hungry! Seriously, it would almost come down to the time of year and what kind of mood I was in. Taking the Metro out towards Pre Catalan and walking through the Bois to get there was wonderful ... on a sunny spring day with my girlfriend in tow. Probably less so in December.

Given your disappointment with Le Cinq, I'm suspect that "avoiding disappointment" and "getting your money's worth" are among the major directives here, and on that count I think Le Grand Vefour might be the better choice for one main reason: the lunch menu has choices -- choose from among three starters, three plats, and three desserts. We did the "smaller" (ha!) tasting menu at Pre Catalan and, although we were allowed a substitute or two, the menu was set.

Finally, if you are expecting culinary pyrotechnics, these are not the places. The food remains relatively traditional, with a few modern twists.

I have a couple of pictures that I'll post later today.

Edited November 13, 2005 by vinobiondo (log)

[ulterior epicure]

I had a pair of very, very good lunches at Le Pre Catalan and Le Grand Vefour back in April.  I would put both among the 10 best meals I've ever eaten, and I've been enough places to know.  I think Pre Catalan is slightly more experimental (and significantly more food), but Le Grand Vefour was a better deal.

What do you mean by significantly more food? What menu did you order from? I'm going for lunch... large portions aren't necessarily a drawback - I don't have to eat all of it. I'd rather have more than enough than not enough!

Pre Catalan is more romantic and probably best done with a significant other.  If I were dining alone and had the chance to return to one or the other, I'd probably go to Grand Vefour ... unless I felt really, really hungry!  Seriously, it would almost come down to the time of year and what kind of mood I was in.

Thanks for the advice, but I"m not concerned with company issues - I'm used to dining alone - and if the weather's nice - a walk through the bois doesn't sound so bad - I'd work up an appetite... I wonder how well they cater to walk-ins... on second thought, better not risk it as I'll be visiting on a Friday.

Given your disappointment with Le Cinq, I'm suspect that "avoiding disappointment" and "getting your money's worth" are among the major directives here, ...

Couldn't have put it better myself!

... and on that count I think Le Grand Vefour might be the better choice for one main reason:  the lunch menu has choices -- choose from among three starters, three plats, and three desserts.  We did the "smaller" (ha!) tasting menu at Pre Catalan and, although we were allowed a substitute or two, the menu was set.

I'm surprised they let you substitute at all... do you remember how many courses the Pre Catalan lunch menu was? If I'm not mistaken, Grand Vefours was four - entree, plat, cheese and dessert... for 75 Euros. Price at Pre Catalan?

Finally, if you are expecting culinary pyrotechnics, these are not the places.  The food remains relatively traditional, with a few modern twists.

Again, I don't need pyrotechnics - but I could do without the frumpy, stodgy, rigid French traditional tastes, ingredients and plating...

I have a couple of pictures that I'll post later today.

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Can't wait!

U.E.

Edited November 13, 2005 by ulterior epicure (log)

[vinobiondo]

"What do you mean by significantly more food? What menu did you order from?"

We had the seasonal tasting menu -- the "Menu de Printemps" -- in April which was 4 courses + cheese + dessert. Not only were there (obviously) more courses, but the portion sizes were downright massive. The Langoustine course (course #1) had 5 medium-size langoustines per person. Grand Vefour was PLENTY of food as well, but we were almost in pain after Pre Catalan.

Thanks for the advice, but I"m not concerned with company issues - I'm used to dining alone

I'd typically agree with you ... I'm very used to dining alone as well, but there is such a different vibe between these two places I think it really might make a difference.

If I'm not mistaken, Grand Vefours was four - entree, plat, cheese and dessert... for 75 Euros. Price at Pre Catalan?

That is indeed what Grand Vefour was ... plus a LOT of extras (pre-amuse, amuse, petit fours, coffee, chocolates ... it took us about 3 1/2 hours). Alas, the menu I took from Pre Catalan doesn't have prices ... but I think it was 110 or 120 Euros.

Edited November 13, 2005 by vinobiondo (log)

[vinobiondo]

Pictures from Grand Vefour

Zucchini and Parmesan salad -- best salad I've ever eaten -- single best course of our 17 Michelin-star trip

Foie Gras starter -- very good

Lamb main course -- best lamb dish I've ever eaten (including Guy Savoy)

Fish main course -- sorry, can't remember it -- very, very good, but not as good as the lamb

Pre Catalan pictures

Langoustine starter (with Romaine Gazpacho and Paprika creme) -- very good

Turbot with Penne in Watercress Pesto -- also excellent

We also had a Morel course (very nice) and a Lamb course (quite good, but too full by then and not as good as Grand Vefour).

Edited November 14, 2005 by vinobiondo (log)

[ulterior epicure]

GASP!! I can't see ANY of the pictures! This terribly teasing...

U.E.

[vinobiondo]

GASP!!  I can't see ANY of the pictures!  This terribly teasing...

U.E.

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oh, for &%^&*@'s sake! ImageGullet is giving me trouble today... I'll try to edit this to fix it.

HELP -- Full ImageGullet "how-to" link needed so I can fix this -- can't find it.

Edited November 13, 2005 by vinobiondo (log)

[ulterior epicure]

1. sorry, i can't help you on the full imagegullet "how-to" link. i hope you do find it soon!

2. based on vinobiondo's and molto e's comments (above), i think that i'm going to shoot for either le bristol or pre catalan. perhaps fate (booked reservations) will decide for me... i guess grand vefour as a third back-up?

u.e.

[bleudauvergne]

Patience - it is an image gullet problem - they're working on it!

[molto e]

GASP!!  I can't see ANY of the pictures!  This terribly teasing...

U.E.

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oh, for &%^&*@'s sake! ImageGullet is giving me trouble today... I'll try to edit this to fix it.

HELP -- Full ImageGullet "how-to" link needed so I can fix this -- can't find it.

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Vinob,

Right click on the thumbnail in image gullet then click on properties and copy the address that comes up, when you paste it to post-erase the "tn_" in the string.

Molto E

Molto E

[pim]

A little late to this party, but I thought I'd point out that -in light of the title of the thread- niether Le Meurice nor Bristol has three star. They each have two, with a special 'espoir' designation for Le Meurice.

[ulterior epicure]

Pim! You're never too late to this party. Have been on your blog and followed it.

I thought I'd point out that -in light of the title of the thread- niether Le Meurice nor Bristol has three star.

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Right... but I guess the title is a little outdated - perhaps it should be "Les Etoiles in the making...?"

They each have two, with a special 'espoir' designation for Le Meurice.

Could you please expound on this - I haven't seen any 'espoir' designations on my Michelin Guides...

Thanks!

U.E.

Edited November 14, 2005 by ulterior epicure (log)

[pim]

Thanks e.u.

Don't get me wrong, I think both Bristol and Le Meurice will certainly give you a three star experience. These are ambitious kitchens, and there's indeed an argument to be made that perhaps the odds are more on your side to eat at 'young' kitchens hungry to be awarded the final star.

The 'espoir' designation is a new thing in the most recent Michelin guide. They awarded these espoirs to restaurants that distinguished themselves from those of the same star level. It was something of a signal that Michelin were paying particular attention to them, as their 'hope' for the new generation, etc, etc.

Some people I know just think that Michelin needs a more fine-grained system than just 1, 2, or 3 stars, and that the 'espoir' thing is the first step toward that end.