Metates

[caroline]

I am currently trying to put together a map of all the metate-making (and hence also molcajete-making) centers in Mexico.

So I wonder if I can enlist the support of people on this list? When you are buying these in the markets, could you ask where they come from? And if possible find out the exact village name, not just something vague like Puebla, though the vendor may very well not know since she may have them from a middle man. And other comments would be most welcome (prices, sizes, numbers sold, description of type of rock and so on).

It might be best to pm me. And Esperanza, I have your comments,

thanks so much,

Rachel

[theabroma]

Um, will the map be published = or otherwise available to the cook and collector? San Salvador el Seco, Pue. I indulged myself in one the size of a small coffee table. Made of fine-grained grey basalt, not the coarse black variety. That's what happens when you let a gringa loca and her car into the country!

Regards,

Theabroma

[shelora]

I won't be back in Oaxaca until December. I've seen stunning metates for sale in Teotitlan and at the abastos in Oaxaca. I'm certain I can find out the source. I hope you can wait until then, if not, do let me know, I may be able to obtain info from a more immediate source. Or at least put you in touch with someone there who can help.

Shelora

[CookingFire]

Just got back from an amazing daytrip out to Amecameca, in Estado de Mexico. It's a great food town -- with the market full of produce (I love that there is no end to the surprises that show up at the fruitstands here), and walnuts well in season.

Anyway, I asked in the market where their molcajetes were made. Most didn't know, but the one who did said that they were all brought over from from Huejotzingo in the state of Puebla, on the other side of the Volcanoe. They make molcajetes, metates, metlapiles and tejolotes. The stone that I saw were hard, less porous and greyer than some of the others I've seen in markets here in the city.

[caroline]

Hey thanks all of you. This is great. And of course the map will be available to all. May take a year or so. But meanwhile I am just awash with metate ideas and questions.

But here are a couple of teasers.

18th century well-to-do Mexican households had about eight. Yes eight. One for maize and other grains, one for fish, one for fruits, one for meat, one for almonds, one for chiles, etc etc. They were dizzy with what they (aka their servants) could do with them.

This opens up all kinds of questions about pre-hispanic uses. Much more than just maize and chiles I suspect.

One analogy is to think of a great metate pre-19th century as like a fine sports car--very high prestige. Think of the cost of moving the things around. The richer you were, the more likely you could get (aka pay for) the kind of metate that fitted your needs.

Don't get me started!

Rachel

[theabroma]

18th century well-to-do Mexican households had about eight. Yes eight.  One for maize and other grains, one for fish, one for fruits, one for meat, one for almonds, one for chiles, etc etc.  They were dizzy with what they (aka their servants) could do with them.

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Okay. That does it!!! Fish??? Meat??? Fascinating! Are we talking dried fish (eg: camarones secos) and dried beef (charqui and machacado)? Or, did they grind up fresh meats and fish? I have visions of a bowl of chilpachole de bolitas de pescado.

And, of course, if the servants (I am assuming mestizos and indios) were making the choir of eight sing, my money would be on the fact that it was they who brought those traditions to the household rather than the patron/patrona wandering into the kitchen one fine day and saying: "You know, what if you did this ... ?

There is also a location in Queretaro. You may know it, but I will try to get the location. The metates and molcajetes were for sale in the Que., Que, market - and were generally the darker, coarser stone.

Too cool

Theabroma

[esperanza]

Sharon, you are exactly right in thinking that the servants brought the metates into the Spanish households--metates and molcajetes too, and all their indigenous cooking techniques. I wrote an article that included that information for the magazine a couple of months ago--title was "500 Years over a Hot Mexican Stove", or words to that effect. I think Rachel read it.

esperanza

[CookingFire]

Neat discussion. As to their being like cars -- the largest ones I've ever seen are in FonArt, near the Almeda in Mexico City. They're not for sale, nor did they have any idea where they come from, but they were too big to even wrap your arms around -- they looked like they would have made great planters.

[caroline]

Thanks Esperanza. If you haven't read her informative and charming article now's your chance.

But what is interesting to me is that the well-to-do housewife seized on this to make her improved variety of the latest Spanish dish. Nothing indigenous about those recipes except for a few chiles.

Theabroma, at least around here meat is still commonly ground on the metate. Pacholas made in the food processor just don't taste the same (another strike against me for my sloppy methods). Most of the recipes I have seen in historic cookbooks are for fresh meat and fish though I am sure that they worked on dried too. They ground everything they could lay their hands on.

Rachel

[shelora]

I am currently trying to put together a map of all the metate-making (and hence also molcajete-making) centers in Mexico. 

So I wonder if I can enlist the support of people on this list?  When you are buying these in the markets, could you ask where they come from?  And if possible find out the exact village name, not just something vague like Puebla, though the vendor may very well not know since she may have them from a middle man.  And other comments would be most welcome (prices, sizes, numbers sold, description of type of rock and so on).

It might be best to pm me.  And Esperanza, I have your comments,

thanks so much,

Rachel

←

Caroline,

I was in the Sunday Tlacalula market yesterday and purchased a molcajete and a tejolote.

The woman selling them, was from San Juan Teitipac, along the same highway as Teotitlan del Valle, etc. about 12 km off the road. Signs indicating the way are apparent.

The village also make metates - the most amazing decorations these days with brightly coloured doves on the outside of the piece.

The make these items out of piedra verde - my tejolote is from this - and also piedra morada.

My assistant said that the village is similar to a miña, so without going there myself, this is an important centre for making these essential kitchen appliances.

Hope this helps.

Shelora

I hope this helps your study.

[caroline]

Shelora,

It certainly does help. Thanks so much for remembering. Interesting that there too the metate makers are jazzing up their offerings. That is certainly true here. soon in won't be possible to get the plain jane version. But good for them if that helps them stay in business.

Can't wait to get down there and talk to them. Enjoy the molcajete and thanks again,

Rachel

[theabroma]

Caroline, will the map be published, or otherwise available? I am so curious to see the distribution around the country. When last in Tecali in September, though I didn't see a metate, I did pick up a marble molcajete - carved into a frog.

I remember seeing some incredible pieces in the market in Tlacolula, but since that trip was in a plane, I just put them out of my mind.

Theabroma

[caroline]

Sure, I'll publish it somewhere. I think it is going to turn out that metate-making places are at least 100 miles apart serving a radius of 200 miles. This is partly due to the problem of finding the right kind of rock. It's partly that given that the things last forever if you are to have a specialist community making them it has to have a pretty big market. This figure is pretty similar to pre-rotary quern Europe.

But it is going to take me a year or two to get all this together. It is part of a bigger project on metates as food processors. Please let me know any interesting uses, etc. I will be really grateful.

Rachel

[theabroma]

This is utterly fascinating, Caroline. Do you want info on just metates, or on molcajetes as well? And what types of uses ... anyting? Medicianal? Ritual?

Theabroma

Have you heard molcatejes referred to as 'liquadoras aztecas'?

[caroline]

Sure to both questions. Molcajetes are just easy little metates that the makers spin off to make money (that's the producers' view) and I'm trying to get a really good inventory of all uses,

R

[herbnick]

I am currently trying to put together a map of all the metate-making (and hence also molcajete-making) centers in Mexico. 

So I wonder if I can enlist the support of people on this list?  When you are buying these in the markets, could you ask where they come from?  And if possible find out the exact village name, not just something vague like Puebla, though the vendor may very well not know since she may have them from a middle man.  And other comments would be most welcome (prices, sizes, numbers sold, description of type of rock and so on).

It might be best to pm me.  And Esperanza, I have your comments,

thanks so much,

Rachel

←

I don't know if I'm doing this correctly but here goes. I recently bought a metate y mano from gourmet slouth and was very disappointed that the surface was quite porous. In exploring alternatives on the web I found your posting.

I have taken Seasons of my Heart weekly classes with Susanna Trilling several times and after soaking the dried corn with cal over night spent one day with her taking the soaked corn to the market, rinsing it and having it ground for tortillas.

We then made tortillas and sopes etc.

I do have a hand grinder but wanted to try to use the metate as some of us did in Oaxaca. Thus my purchase.

I'm interested in your search for places that make metates and wonder if you made the list of summary you mentioned. I hope you are still active on this site

[andiesenji]

They are almost always somewhat porous. You must "season" it first by grinding dry rice on it, repeating this several times so the softer grit on the surface is knocked off. It does take a while. I also use very coarse salt, mixed with the rice, not a lot. As I recall, I used over a pound of rice on the last one I bought. I just buy the cheap bulk rice at the Mexican supermarket, it is very dry and hard.

Edited June 9, 2007 by andiesenji (log)

[herbnick]

They are almost always somewhat porous.  You must "season" it first by grinding dry rice on it, repeating this several times so the softer grit on the surface is knocked off.  It does take a while.  I also use very coarse salt, mixed with the rice, not a lot.  As I recall, I used over a pound of rice on the last one I bought.  I just buy the cheap bulk rice at the Mexican supermarket, it is very dry and hard.

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Thank your for your reply. I have seasoned several molcajetes this way and found them very workable. However this metate has more and deeper holes than I have ever seen. I tested an area outside the usable part with a grinder. This is very hard material and to make the surface as usable as one would want it would take hours with a grinder without assurances that there would not be equally sized holes under the surface ground off. The metates I have seen in Oaxaca did not have surfaces like this one.

Unfortunately I am not in a position to drive there to pick up a new one. I was hoping that the map discussed in the 2005 string would help me find a feasible source and would really lke to see if the map was published.

But thanks again , I really appreciate your input.

[Jaymes]

Regarding several comments upthread about really big molcajetes...

Just returned from six weeks in Michoacan. I, too, saw some things in the market that I thought were really big molcajetes, made from what appeared to be a quite porous stone. Indeed, I thought about using them for planters.

But about halfway through my visit, I was invited to spend the afternoon at the home of a wealthy Morelian family. They asked what I would like to drink and when I said, "water," they inquired as to whether the water "de piedra (of the stone)" would be fine, or would I prefer bottled.

"Agua de piedra?"

They took me into the kitchen where I saw what I had assumed in the market were very large molcajetes. Instead, it was a water filtering system. They fill the depression with water, and it drips through the porous stone.

The water tasted delicious, pure, cool, refreshing. And, they assured me, quite safe to drink, as they had been drinking it themselves and serving it to guests for decades.

Edited June 11, 2007 by Jaymes (log)

[caroline]

Oh yup, And suspended in their iron frame dripping water they look like, well, so much like breasts that my husband and I always giggle. They tend to be a porous sandstone much softer than the (usually) basalt rocks used for metates and molcajetes.

Herbnick I wonder if you mean porous (ie absorbs water) or pitted (ie lots of holes). In my experience metates should have holes. When they get smooth they have to be picado (pitted with a metal instrument) to work well. One of my metates is old and quite smooth and it is lots more work. Diana Kennedy has a statement somewhere saying you should look for smooth molcajetes (or was it metates?). It's something I disagree with her about.

A quick way of getting one ready to use is to use a wire brush (even better a wire brush on a grill) to get out the little bits of loose rock. Try that. Then use one of those little Mexican fibre brushes to clean out the holes after you have used it.

Yes I am continuing my metate project in Mexico and elsewhere. I don't have the map put together because I have not had the chance to travel all over Mexico. It's easy to get metates in Mexico. I have several spare ones sitting in the garden. Trouble is, they are literally impossible to ship to the States where anxious folks await them.

Cheers,

Rachel