The Copas on the skids

[MarketStEl]

I went over into the Food and Dining section of philly.com, looking for (a) clues to this reported Craig LaBan food cart review (for which I should probably just go down to my building lobby--I get the Inky delivered) and (b) that deviled-egg recipe that ran in last Sunday's "Image" section, and I stumbled across a series of fairly vehement posts in the philly.com Food discussion forum under the heading "Copa Too DO NOT GO!"

Judging from these posts, the popular Center City casual eatery (and, I assume, its sister, the original Copabanana at 4th and South) has changed hands and gotten a lot worse.

Back in the '80s, Copa Too! was one of those places that every city neighborhood needs: a come-as-you-are eatery that offered good food at reasonable prices. Copa Too! added a lively atmosphere to that formula, and it had some really great dishes as well--most notably their Spanish fries, laden with roasted peppers (at least two kinds, jalapeno being one), onions, cayenne, and Cheddar and Monterrey Jack cheeses.

Like its sister, Copa Too! also had a rep for turning out a mean hamburger.

If these posts on philly.com are any guide, those burgers have gone from mean to mediocre, and the new owners have added attitude to the restaurant's ambience, while slowing down the service. Perhaps equally significantly, there wasn't a single post in defense of the place posted to the topic (granted, only five posts is hardly a large sample size, but...).

Any current or former Copa/Copa Too! patrons out there available to confirm or deny this sad news? Anyone want to share memories of past experiences there?

(And if all this is true, at least I've still got Moriarty's and More Than Just Ice Cream--or Bump, Woody's, the Westbury Bar and The Venture Inn if I want to express my gay gene.)

[Sfuffy]

I went over into the Food and Dining section of philly.com, looking for (a) clues to this reported Craig LaBan food cart review (for which I should probably just go down to my building lobby--I get the Inky delivered) and (b) that deviled-egg recipe that ran in last Sunday's "Image" section, and I stumbled across a series of fairly vehement posts in the philly.com Food discussion forum under the heading "Copa Too DO NOT GO!"

Judging from these posts, the popular Center City casual eatery (and, I assume, its sister, the original Copabanana at 4th and South) has changed hands and gotten a lot worse.

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The Copa Too doesn't share ownership with the original Copabanana. It was split off a couple of years ago. (One wonders why they didn't realize that letting them keep the name might come back to bite them one day.) The University City Copa is owned by the 4th and South people.

[KatieLoeb]

I dunno. I'll still eat a Copa burger at either the South Street or the 15th Street locations, washed down with a fine magarita. I don't think it's gotten meidocre. I think it always was a fairly middle of the road choice, but the burgers were always decent at a minimum, and the margaritas are always good.

I think there are just more and better choices now. And perhaps some of us have more sophisticated palates than we used to. The stuff I thought was the cat's meow in my twenties I don't necessarily feel that way about any longer. I used to drink Mateus and Boone's Farm ferchissakes!

[philadining]

I was a little weirded-out to see a shelf full of Rose's Lime Juice in a storeroom behind the bar at the 40th street location a couple of months ago. The margarita I was drinking at the time tasted pretty darn good, seemingly involving fresh limes, so maybe those bottles were for something else....

I had always been convinced that the appeal of the margaritas at the original at 4th and South was largely due to the fresh lime juice, and back when I lived within staggering distance of that place, I felt like a bit of an expert.

I haven't been to any of them very recently, but not THAT long ago I had an experience like Katie's: I had a couple of drinks and a Copa Burger at 4th street, and the whole experience was pretty satisfying in the Copa's inimitable threadbare, faded, sticky, oh-what-the-hell-let's-have-another-round, kind of way.

I can't really comment on 15th street, I haven't been in there in years, and all i can say about 40th street is: thank god it wasn't there when I was at Penn.

I hope the decline is overstated, or at least restricted to 15th street. Damn, I might just have to do some quality-control this weekend...

[TarteTatin]

We still love to go have a margarita and watch the world stroll by; although you can only do that at the bar now. No tables at windows unless you eat....

The floor has become more and more sticky, and I still won't ever go to the bathroom at the Copa. Probably one of the dirtiest in Philly.

But, that being said, we still go once in awhile.

[Andrew Fenton]

Dude, no way has a fresh lime ever gone anywhere near a Copa margarita. They're okay, in an alcoholic-Slurpee kind of way, but nothing all that special.

edit to add: I suspect Katie's assessment is right on. Maybe if I'd been around back in the day, I'd have warm fuzzy feelings for Copa, but as it is, they rate a loud "meh".

Edited June 27, 2005 by Andrew Fenton (log)

[Mummer]

Anybody else remember Eddie, the long-time waiter at Bananas (14xx Locust) before he moved around the corner to Copa Too?

If my memory serves me correctly, Philly Mag named him best waiter during one of those stints.

A burger with cheeze fries and two brews, served at lunch by Eddie. Somehow, that second draught never hit the tab.

When he moved around the corner, Spanish fries replaced the whizzed ones.

[philadining]

Dude, no way has a fresh lime ever gone anywhere near a Copa margarita.  They're okay, in an alcoholic-Slurpee kind of way, but nothing all that special.

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AAAAAGHH!!! You don't get the FROZEN ones at the Copa!!!

Back in the prehistoric days of the late 80s, there absolutely were fresh limes being squeezed. I haven't done a citrus audit lately, I guess duty calls....

[Carlson1105]

I was a regular at the 15th St. location for years. We used to close the place down after locking up at Magnolia Cafe. Lived upstairs in the Academy House, and continued to be a regular. The Last time I went there was about 3 years ago. The waitress was downright hostile to us. I assume since they add the gratuity to almost every check, she thought she could be a b-tch and get away with it. She could tell we were not happy, and really got scared when she found out I was friendly with the manager. As I went downstairs to talk to him about her rudeness, she saw me and flew down the stairs to interrupt my conversation with the manager. He was very professional and told her to go away. He knew I wouldn't make up a story about her (she said we just didn't want to pay the 18%, little did she know, 18% is less than I would ever tip for good service). After he apoligized on her behalf, I left with my friends from out of town embarrased for taking them there. Needless to say, I haven't been back. Just to clarify, the service was acceptable, but not the slamming things on the table and condescending attitude. As she delivered our food, my wife asked, "When you get a chance, can we have some silverware and ketchup please?" Her response was "Can I put these down first or should I carry everything at once in my 2 hands" Call me crazy, but silverware is usually on the table before the food. My favorite was when we asked if the nachos could come out first, as my friends were very hungry. Her response was, "as soon as they are ready I'll bring them. I place the order in the kitchen, and then they make it, that's how it works" I'm glad she clarified that, as my 20 years employed in restaurants never taught me that, I thought the food just appeared.

[Andrew Fenton]

Dude, no way has a fresh lime ever gone anywhere near a Copa margarita.  They're okay, in an alcoholic-Slurpee kind of way, but nothing all that special.

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AAAAAGHH!!! You don't get the FROZEN ones at the Copa!!!

Yeah, I've had the margaritas on the rocks too: my verdict? Melted Slurpee.

Seriously, for the last year or two I've just been going to the Italian Market, buying 30 limes for like $3, and making my own margaritas. Way better than anything I've had at any bar or restaurant (even Lolita, and y'all know how much I like Lolita).

[herbacidal]

I dunno.  I'll still eat a Copa burger at either the South Street or the 15th Street locations, washed down with a fine magarita.  I don't think it's gotten meidocre.  I think it always was a fairly middle of the road choice, but the burgers were always decent at a minimum, and the margaritas are always good.

I think there are just more and better choices now.  And perhaps some of us have more sophisticated palates than we used to.  The stuff I thought was the cat's meow in my twenties I don't necessarily feel that way about any longer.  I used to drink Mateus and Boone's Farm ferchissakes!

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I still think Copa is as good as it ever was, for my purposes.

The 15th St. one anyway. Solid burgers 'n stuff, stiff drinks.

I've never had bad service there, but maybe I missed that waitress.

[mrbigjas]

Dude, no way has a fresh lime ever gone anywhere near a Copa margarita.  They're okay, in an alcoholic-Slurpee kind of way, but nothing all that special.

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AAAAAGHH!!! You don't get the FROZEN ones at the Copa!!!

Yeah, I've had the margaritas on the rocks too: my verdict? Melted Slurpee.

Seriously, for the last year or two I've just been going to the Italian Market, buying 30 limes for like $3, and making my own margaritas. Way better than anything I've had at any bar or restaurant (even Lolita, and y'all know how much I like Lolita).

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ok i could be wrong, because it's been a couple years since i've been back, but i sat at the bar at copa too lots of times, and they always had a one of those plastic bar bottles (the ones with the long necks) of fresh lime juice there. or at least it looked and tasted like fresh lime.... i mean, it's been a couple years, but i don't feel like i'm misremembering.

i always blamed the sweetness on the fact that the way they used to make them was they basically take the bottles of tequila, triple sec and lime and upend the three of them together--that leads to a whole lot more lime and triple sec than in a traditional recipe.

[KatieLoeb]

Y'all are missing the fact that most bars use frozen fresh lime juice. It's perfectly acceptable and perfectly tasty. It saves a great deal of time and effort and tastes absolutely acceptable in a mixed cocktail.

The cost of produce varies far too wildly for a bar/restaurant owner to price the drinks depending on the whims and vagaries of the fresh produce market. The frozen stuff allows one to price appropriately for year around availability.

[philadining]

Y'all are missing the fact that most bars use frozen fresh lime juice.  It's perfectly acceptable and perfectly tasty.  It saves a great deal of time and effort and tastes absolutely acceptable in a mixed cocktail.

The cost of produce varies far too wildly for a bar/restaurant owner to price the drinks depending on the whims and vagaries of the fresh produce market.  The frozen stuff allows one to price appropriately for year around availability.

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That's a good point, I suspect when the bartenders told us they were using "fresh" lime juice, they were contrasting with bottled, and maybe it was always frozen. I swear I saw limes being squeezed back in the day, but maybe that was a bit of garnish or show, I guess that would be a lot of juicing for the kind of volume they do there... And it probably wouldn't fly to charge "market price" for the Margaritas! I've been pretty shocked by my bar tab there, I can't imagine what it would be like after an unexpected frost in the lime groves.

But I think the real lesson is that the best margaritas are at the Fentons'. What's your address again Andrew? And how are your Spanish Fries?

[mrbigjas]

back in the day we used to go on tuesdays when they had the half-price sandwich night, and i'd get a spanish chicken but with cheese (or the... what was it, california? with the green chile and cheese? chicken but with jalapenos), and spanish fries. and i don't know if it's just that my heat tolerance has gone up since then or what but it used to cause me great gastric distress the next day. i don't think that would happen now. i guess it IS a lot of jalapenos though, all over the sandwich and the fries.

i think i'ma have to check it out again soon.

[Greg Ling]

Dude, no way has a fresh lime ever gone anywhere near a Copa margarita.  They're okay, in an alcoholic-Slurpee kind of way, but nothing all that special.

edit to add: I suspect Katie's assessment is right on.  Maybe if I'd been around back in the day, I'd have warm fuzzy feelings for Copa, but as it is, they rate a loud "meh".

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my brother works at south street copa and I've personally seen him juice cases of limes but the other stuff is frozen.

[Andrew Fenton]

my brother works at south street copa and I've personally seen him juice cases of limes but the other stuff is frozen.

Well shut my mouth, then!

[philadining]

my brother works at south street copa and I've personally seen him juice cases of limes but the other stuff is frozen.

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Thanks Greg, it's reassuring to know that my recollection of limes being squeezed was not completely a tequila-fueled delusion! If I could only sort out how many of my other Copa memories are real, I'd really be somewhere. Edited June 30, 2005 by philadining (log)